2300 day/year prophecy of Daniel 8 - correct timeline - wrong event.

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
Well - in Dan 9 the 490 timeline points to the first coming of Christ and specifically His baptism "Anointing by the Holy Spirit" and then his crucifixion in the midst of that last week of years.

Are you "certain" nobody knows about this??

Looking back at something that has already happened is one thing. It is quite another to project into the future.

Daniel 9:1-5 Daniel is studying the 70 year timeline prophecy of Jeremiah. A timeline that had not yet completed - but would soon be over and predicted the release of the captives back to Israel. He did not ignore it - but rather studied it and claimed the promises for release.

Both Christ and John the baptizer had a mission and message about prophetic time fulfillment saying "the time is fulfilled"

Mark 1
14 Now after John had been taken into custody, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of God, 15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”

This was a direct reference to Daniel's 490 year timeline (that had not yet expired but 69 weeks of it had just expired) and the next part of it pointing to the time when the Messiah would be "cut off" would happen in the midst of that last week of years.

In Matt 16 Jesus condemns the Jews for not understanding time prophecy -
The Pharisees and Sadducees came up, and testing Jesus, they asked Him to show them a sign from heaven. 2 But He replied to them, “When it is evening, you say, ‘It will be fair weather, for the sky is red.’ 3 And in the morning, ‘There will be a storm today, for the sky is red and threatening.’ Do you know how to discern the appearance of the sky, but cannot discern the signs of the times?

Matt 24
29 “But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. 31 And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
32 “Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; 33 so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door.


In 1 Thess 5 Paul says that students of the Bible will be informed, awake and aware - not in darkness and surprised as if a thief came in the night.

1 Thess 5
5 Now as to the times and the epochs, brethren, you have no need of anything to be written to you. 2 For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night. 3 While they are saying, “Peace and safety!” then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief; 5 for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness; 6 so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober. 7 For those who sleep do their sleeping at night, and those who get drunk get drunk at night. 8 But since we are of the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope of salvation. 9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

At the end of time - the lost are all taken by surprise - as in the days of Noah. But Noah had a 120 year timeline and the word of God on the details - including the subject of the last final 7 days of that timeline.

Though we cannot know the exact day and hour - yet we should not be as the wicked ignoring all the timeline information that God has been so diligent to give us - at this time -- through His prophets.

Matt 24
37 For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

 

[sparow]

You take my statement and "argue its opposite" as if I said that??

What is the point of that?

I say the 70 years of Jeremiah's prophecy in Dan 9:1-4 are contiguous (as are all Bible timeline prophecies) -- so given the start of the timeline you know the time of the event it predicts - this case - in Daniel 9- the release of the Jews from Persia.

So also the 490 year timeline in Daniel 9 (70 weeks of years) also contiguous and it gives the starting event -- so then we see the accurate fulfillment to the baptism of Christ - his crucifixion in the middle of that last week of years - and then the end of the Jewish dispensation 3.5 years later.



Leaving you no start point at all for the 2300 years in Daniel 8 --all you would have "left" as info for starting is that you must start at some point before the rise of Greece (the goat) in Dan 8 and after the rise of Persia (the RAM). Sadly you would have nothing at all to direct your 2300 year timeline "from the text" using that model so you would need to "make stuff up" to compensate.

I prefer sticking with the text. Daniel 9 says that the 490 years are an explanation of the Dan 8 vision - that they give more information about that Dan 8 - 2300 year timeline and that the first 490 years of it "cut off" that is they are being explained.

All Bible timelines are contiguous - without exception and the 70 years of Jeremiah in Dan 9:1-4 proves this irrefutably.

It was the Jesuits that came up with the bogus idea of slicing and dicing "the greatest timeline prophecy pointing to the first coming of Christ" -- Daniel 9



The fact that all Bible timeline prophecy timelines are contiguous just as we see in Dan 9;1-5 and Jeremiah's 70 year timeline - is irrefutable. So then the 490 year timeline cannot be sliced-and-diced just to fit the whim of a Jesuit priest attempting his counter-reformation assault on Protestantism.

How is that even remotely confusing?

IT is also irrefutable that the vision of Dan 8 (that has the 2300 year timeline) begins events during Medo-Persian dominance of the "Ram".

This again is - irrefutable.

It is also irrefutable that the Dan 9 vision starts off with the stated purpose of explaining the missing element of the Dan 8 vision -



Persia had taken over Babylon and was the empire in charge at the time of Ezra.

1844 marks the end of the 2300 year timeline and the start of the judgment of Dan 7 that is the core of the Day of Atonement - cleansing of the Sanctuary - mentioned in Dan 8.

Daniel 7 is that at the conclusion of that judgment - when "judgment is passed in favor of the saints" - that this will bring about the end of the atrocities of the little horn. It is the same solution to the same problem seen in both Daniel 7 and Daniel 8

in Christ,

Bob

Of course I have a starting point for the 2300 years, week 71 following contiguously after week 70. All these irrefutable points you claim may be SDA teaching but I don't find them in scripture. Each time Babylon was conquered it was still Babylon, the people were not displaced, the religion, the Jews and Daniel remained, and when Rome came it became Babylon.

Daniel 8 talks about Persia and Greece but these are the silver chest and the bronze middle; Daniel 8:17 says that vision is for the time; but Persia and Greece are not mentioned in Revelation which covers the time of the end but we can know that Rome, Persia, Greece and Babylon are there symbolically.

 

[BobRyan]

Of course I have a starting point for the 2300 years, week 71

Daniel 8 starts in the midst of the Persian empire - you propose starting in the Roman empire timeline - after Christ ascends to heaven???

The irrefutable points remain.

 

[BobRyan]

. All these irrefutable points you claim may be SDA teaching but I don't find them in scripture.

I find it hard to believe that you did not find Daniel 8 and 9 in scripture -- as these irrefutable statements point to details that cannot be denied.

=====================


I say the 70 years of Jeremiah's prophecy in Dan 9:1-4 are contiguous (as are all Bible timeline prophecies) -- so given the start of the timeline you know the time of the event it predicts - this case - in Daniel 9- the release of the Jews from Persia.

That is irrefutable

So also the 490 year timeline in Daniel 9 (70 weeks of years) also contiguous and it gives the starting event -- so then we see the accurate fulfillment to the baptism of Christ - his crucifixion in the middle of that last week of years - and then the end of the Jewish dispensation 3.5 years later.

you say that the 490 and 2300 time over lap I say the 2300 years follow

Leaving you no start point at all for the 2300 years in Daniel 8 --all you would have "left" as info for starting is that you must start at some point before the rise of Greece (the goat) in Dan 8 and after the rise of Persia (the RAM). Sadly you would have nothing at all to direct your 2300 year timeline "from the text" using that model so you would need to "make stuff up" to compensate.

I prefer sticking with the text. Daniel 9 says that the 490 years are an explanation of the Dan 8 vision - that they give more information about that Dan 8 - 2300 year timeline and that the first 490 years of it "cut off" that is they are being explained.

All Bible timelines are contiguous - without exception and the 70 years of Jeremiah in Dan 9:1-4 proves this irrefutably.

It was the Jesuits that came up with the bogus idea of slicing and dicing "the greatest timeline prophecy pointing to the first coming of Christ" -- Daniel 9

I am sorry to disappoint you but these things are not black and white; I agree with your starting point for the 490 year or seventy week prophesy

The fact that all Bible timeline prophecy timelines are contiguous just as we see in Dan 9;1-5 and Jeremiah's 70 year timeline - is irrefutable. So then the 490 year timeline cannot be sliced-and-diced just to fit the whim of a Jesuit priest attempting his counter-reformation assault on Protestantism.

How is that even remotely confusing?

IT is also irrefutable that the vision of Dan 8 (that has the 2300 year timeline) begins events during Medo-Persian dominance of the "Ram".

This again is - irrefutable.

It is also irrefutable that the Dan 9 vision starts off with the stated purpose of explaining the missing element of the Dan 8 vision -

It was Babylon that the Jews came out of not Persia. .

Persia had taken over Babylon and was the empire in charge at the time of Ezra.

1844 marks the end of the 2300 year timeline and the start of the judgment of Dan 7 that is the core of the Day of Atonement - cleansing of the Sanctuary - mentioned in Dan 8.

Daniel 7 is that at the conclusion of that judgment - when "judgment is passed in favor of the saints" - that this will bring about the end of the atrocities of the little horn. It is the same solution to the same problem seen in both Daniel 7 and Daniel 8

in Christ,

Bob

 

[sparow]

Daniel 8 starts in the midst of the Persian empire - you propose starting in the Roman empire timeline - after Christ ascends to heaven???

The irrefutable points remain.

Daniel 8 was a dream which has nothing to do with time line; Persia and Greece are given as types for antitypes during the time of the end; are you ignoring Daniel 8:17? And confusing the time of the end with the end of time. You assumptions or interptretations which you call irrefutable points, do not impress me.

 

[sparow]

I find it hard to believe that you did not find Daniel 8 and 9 in scripture -- as these irrefutable statements point to details that cannot be denied.

=====================


I say the 70 years of Jeremiah's prophecy in Dan 9:1-4 are contiguous (as are all Bible timeline prophecies) -- so given the start of the timeline you know the time of the event it predicts - this case - in Daniel 9- the release of the Jews from Persia.

That is irrefutable

So also the 490 year timeline in Daniel 9 (70 weeks of years) also contiguous and it gives the starting event -- so then we see the accurate fulfillment to the baptism of Christ - his crucifixion in the middle of that last week of years - and then the end of the Jewish dispensation 3.5 years later.



Leaving you no start point at all for the 2300 years in Daniel 8 --all you would have "left" as info for starting is that you must start at some point before the rise of Greece (the goat) in Dan 8 and after the rise of Persia (the RAM). Sadly you would have nothing at all to direct your 2300 year timeline "from the text" using that model so you would need to "make stuff up" to compensate.

I prefer sticking with the text. Daniel 9 says that the 490 years are an explanation of the Dan 8 vision - that they give more information about that Dan 8 - 2300 year timeline and that the first 490 years of it "cut off" that is they are being explained.

All Bible timelines are contiguous - without exception and the 70 years of Jeremiah in Dan 9:1-4 proves this irrefutably.

It was the Jesuits that came up with the bogus idea of slicing and dicing "the greatest timeline prophecy pointing to the first coming of Christ" -- Daniel 9



The fact that all Bible timeline prophecy timelines are contiguous just as we see in Dan 9;1-5 and Jeremiah's 70 year timeline - is irrefutable. So then the 490 year timeline cannot be sliced-and-diced just to fit the whim of a Jesuit priest attempting his counter-reformation assault on Protestantism.

How is that even remotely confusing?

IT is also irrefutable that the vision of Dan 8 (that has the 2300 year timeline) begins events during Medo-Persian dominance of the "Ram".

This again is - irrefutable.

It is also irrefutable that the Dan 9 vision starts off with the stated purpose of explaining the missing element of the Dan 8 vision -



Persia had taken over Babylon and was the empire in charge at the time of Ezra.

1844 marks the end of the 2300 year timeline and the start of the judgment of Dan 7 that is the core of the Day of Atonement - cleansing of the Sanctuary - mentioned in Dan 8.

Daniel 7 is that at the conclusion of that judgment - when "judgment is passed in favor of the saints" - that this will bring about the end of the atrocities of the little horn. It is the same solution to the same problem seen in both Daniel 7 and Daniel 8

in Christ,

Bob

The Jews were never held captive in Persia, the were held captive in Babylon and I believe the king was a Mede. All the points you make are refutable and are poor interpretations of scripture and assumptions. Daniel 8 give the history of the ram and the goat, even if in advance, past Alexander but before Rome; but when Gabriel interprets the dream the interpretation is for the time of the end, Daniel 8:17, but I believe verse 23 speaks of the eighth beast, the head of gold, who kills many with peace.

 

[BobRyan]

The Jews were never held captive in Persia, .

1. Daniel records the capture of the Babylonian empire by the Persians.
2. Daniel 8 states specifically that Persia is the nation in power as described in the starting events of the vision.
3. Daniel 8 shows that its Timeline for the start of its vision is anchored in a point that is during the dominant phase of Persia.

were we just "not supposed to notice"??

457 B.C. fits the specification perfectly and is indicated in Daniel 9's "explanation" of that vision.

 

[BobRyan]

Daniel 8 was a dream which has nothing to do with time line;

Until you read the actual chapter.

Dan 8:13 "How long is the vision" ... How long a period of time is covered by the vision.
Dan 8:14 - 2300 years

The attention to detail found in the Millerite and SDA solution pointing to 1844 is unsurpassed by less careful notions.

 

[sparow]

1. Daniel records the capture of the Babylonian empire by the Persians.
2. Daniel 8 states specifically that Persia is the nation in power as described in the starting events of the vision.
3. Daniel 8 shows that its Timeline for the start of its vision is anchored in a point that is during the dominant phase of Persia.

were we just "not supposed to notice"??

456 B.C. fits the specification perfectly and is indicated in Daniel 9's "explanation" of that vision.

We both know Medo-Persia conquered Babylon and that Alexander conquered Persia so we need to work out what we are arguing about. When Babylon conquered Israel did Israel become Babylon? No, during the captivity Israel always had a king of Israel (according to Jewish sources). Also during the Biblical period national boundaries were not determined by geography but by people and tribes. The People of Babylon were still the people of Babylon; in the same way as when England and America gave Poland to Russia Poland remained Poland and even if the name had been changed the people didn't.

I believe your use of time line is also error; there are only three events that are precisely timed and they are Christ's arrival at the beginning of the seventieth week, the seventieth week when the covenant is confirmed and the being cut off in the middle of the week; nothing else is precisely timed.

 

[sparow]

Until you read the actual chapter.

Dan 8:13 "How long is the vision" ... How long a period of time is covered by the vision.
Dan 8:14 - 2300 years

The attention to detail found in the Millerite and SDA solution pointing to 1844 is unsurpassed by less careful notions.

I would not call 2300 days a time line; a time line is a series of timed events; the transgression of desolation lasts for 2300 days (Dan 8:13-14). I don't have a problem with 2300 years of treading the sanctuary underfoot but this does not happen during the 490 years; it has to happen after Christ establishes His sanctuary, which is also the New Covenant.

I suggest the millers and the SDA got it all screwed up.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

I would not call 2300 days a time line; a time line is a series of timed events; the transgression of desolation lasts for 2300 days (Dan 8:13-14). I don't have a problem with 2300 years of treading the sanctuary underfoot but this does not happen during the 490 years; it has to happen after Christ establishes His sanctuary, which is also the New Covenant.

I suggest the millers and the SDA got it all screwed up.

Thank you for your suggestion....

 

[BobRyan]

I would not call 2300 days a time line;

Well pretty much everyone else admits that it is a time prophecy and the timeline has a start and a duration.

So also does the 490 year timeline of Daniel 9.

So also does the 70 year timeline prophecy of Jeremiah also noted by Daniel in Dan 9:1-6.

The timeline has a start, and a duration -- and thus an end point. And in all cases there is at least one event that pertains to the timeline. But in the case of the vision of Daniel 8 we see a number of events.

 

[sparow]

Well pretty much everyone else admits that it is a time prophecy and the timeline has a start and a duration.

So also does the 490 year timeline of Daniel 9.

So also does the 70 year timeline prophecy of Jeremiah also noted by Daniel in Dan 9:1-6.

The timeline has a start, and a duration -- and thus an end point. And in all cases there is at least one event that pertains to the timeline. But in the case of the vision of Daniel 8 we see a number of events.

As far as I am aware, "timeline" is not in the bible. I have looked at definitions for time line and there are many. I call the 490 years a timeline as I previously stated, the timed events; the coming of Christ, the seventieth week and the being cut off in the middle of the week. The dispensations of Dispensationalism qualify as a time line.

 

[BobRyan]

As far as I am aware, "timeline" is not in the bible.

Well then contiguous timeline prophecy vs slice-and-dice timeline prophecies in the Bible will not be a concept for you -- but many others will get this distinction instantly. you have free will and can choose to not see whatever you wish.

You have chosen to fall on your sword rejecting a Bible detail that is glaringly obvious to most people.

 

[overcomer]

Bob,

It's 457BC, not 456BC as the starting point. That probably a slip. I do that too.

 

[overcomer]

As far as I am aware, "timeline" is not in the bible. I have looked at definitions for time line and there are many. I call the 490 years a timeline as I previously stated, the timed events; the coming of Christ, the seventieth week and the being cut off in the middle of the week. The dispensations of Dispensationalism qualify as a time line.

I would not call 2300 days a time line; a time line is a series of timed events; the transgression of desolation lasts for 2300 days (Dan 8:13-14). I don't have a problem with 2300 years of treading the sanctuary underfoot but this does not happen during the 490 years; it has to happen after Christ establishes His sanctuary, which is also the New Covenant.

I suggest the millers and the SDA got it all screwed up.

Hi Sparrow,

When Daniel wrote the 2300 year prophecy, there was a sanctuary on earth that he understood. That's the earthly sanctuary God commanded Moses to pitch. That sanctuary and the sanctuary services performed daily (service) typified Christ's ministry on the behalf of men. No question, Christ became our high priest and began His priesthood in the heavenly ministry after ratifying the new covenant by His blood upon the cross.

However at the time of Daniel's writing of the 2300 days, the earthly sanctuary pointed to Christ's ministry which is the only way of salvation. And notice the daily (sacrifice in italic) service was taken away, cast to the ground. The daily service (tammid in Hebrew) represented all the activities took place in the sanctuary for the purpose of justification and sanctification.

This question was 'How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?'

So the vision was concerning to the daily service which was carried out by the Old Testament priests who typified Jesus and by Jesus Himself afterwards in the heavenly sanctuary.

You have to consider this vision of 2300 days of daily service taken away is but a continuation of the visions given previously in Daniel 7 & 8 concerning the beasts. What Daniel was shown in the visions were the succession of world powers that gave rise to this little horn power that inherited the characteristics of the previous beasts. This little horn power speaks great words against the Most High, wears out the saints of the Most High, thinks to change times and laws, takes away the daily service, trod the sanctuary and its host under foot.

The question was asked 'how long is this allowed to continue'? The answer is 2300 years. Notice Daniel was troubled and sick because he didn't understand the vision. That's until the starting point of the 70 weeks was given. The bible didn't say Daniel was still troubled after that, did it? No.

Daniel 9
21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.
22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.
23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,

Angel Gabriel came to give Daniel the understand by telling him the starting point. A time prophecy consists 3 things: the prophetic content (what will happen), the starting point and the end point. Daniel 7 & 8 told us what will happen and the interpretation was explained to Daniel. Daniel 8 told us the prophecy should run to the end of time (vs 16-18). But Daniel was sick because he didn't understand. What was missing? The starting point.

Once Gabriel told Daniel the 70 weeks, Daniel's trouble with the 2300 day vision is no longer reported.

There are 3 commandments to rebuild the temple. The first 2 commandments were never carried out. The 3rd one went into effect. That's the start of the 70 weeks.

Furthermore, the Hebrew word 'determine' means to cut off. Take a string and try to cut off a segment. You can only cut off from either ends, not from the middle. So the 70 weeks are no doubt the beginning of the 2300 days.

 

[BobRyan]

Bob,

It's 457BC, not 456BC as the starting point. That probably a slip. I do that too.

Thanks - I fixed a few of my posts a few days ago -- may not have gotten to all of them.

 

[sparow]

Hi Sparrow,

When Daniel wrote the 2300 year prophecy, there was a sanctuary on earth that he understood. That's the earthly sanctuary God commanded Moses to pitch. That sanctuary and the sanctuary services performed daily (service) typified Christ's ministry on the behalf of men. No question, Christ became our high priest and began His priesthood in the heavenly ministry after ratifying the new covenant by His blood upon the cross.

However at the time of Daniel's writing of the 2300 days, the earthly sanctuary pointed to Christ's ministry which is the only way of salvation. And notice the daily (sacrifice in italic) service was taken away, cast to the ground. The daily service (tammid in Hebrew) represented all the activities took place in the sanctuary for the purpose of justification and sanctification.

This question was 'How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?'

So the vision was concerning to the daily service which was carried out by the Old Testament priests who typified Jesus and by Jesus Himself afterwards in the heavenly sanctuary.

You have to consider this vision of 2300 days of daily service taken away is but a continuation of the visions given previously in Daniel 7 & 8 concerning the beasts. What Daniel was shown in the visions were the succession of world powers that gave rise to this little horn power that inherited the characteristics of the previous beasts. This little horn power speaks great words against the Most High, wears out the saints of the Most High, thinks to change times and laws, takes away the daily service, trod the sanctuary and its host under foot.

The question was asked 'how long is this allowed to continue'? The answer is 2300 years. Notice Daniel was troubled and sick because he didn't understand the vision. That's until the starting point of the 70 weeks was given. The bible didn't say Daniel was still troubled after that, did it? No.

Daniel 9
21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.
22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.
23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,

Angel Gabriel came to give Daniel the understand by telling him the starting point. A time prophecy consists 3 things: the prophetic content (what will happen), the starting point and the end point. Daniel 7 & 8 told us what will happen and the interpretation was explained to Daniel. Daniel 8 told us the prophecy should run to the end of time (vs 16-18). But Daniel was sick because he didn't understand. What was missing? The starting point.

Once Gabriel told Daniel the 70 weeks, Daniel's trouble with the 2300 day vision is no longer reported.

There are 3 commandments to rebuild the temple. The first 2 commandments were never carried out. The 3rd one went into effect. That's the start of the 70 weeks.

Furthermore, the Hebrew word 'determine' means to cut off. Take a string and try to cut off a segment. You can only cut off from either ends, not from the middle. So the 70 weeks are no doubt the beginning of the 2300 days.

The Sanctuary of God has always existed and will always exist and is not dependent on tents or temples. God is the sanctuary, the tents and temples are where God dwelt.

So buildings are called sanctuaries but what can a building do; the temple of Diana was a sanctuary for sin among other things but it was men with authority that provided the protection.

Daniel's prophesies often reach through to the time of the end as does Daniel eight. Gabriel said the vision was for the time of the end; Christ is the daily sacrifice that is thrown to ground and trodden underfoot, you see the sanctuary and the Host are one. Daniel's understanding came directly from God, he didn't make it up or interpret it from scripture; we are not so lucky.

The beasts of Daniel accrue into the image with the Gold head, silver chest, bronze middle and iron legs and feet and this image was complete when Christ came and it is this image Christ is going to destroy by striking it's feet.

The command to rebuild the temple is synonymous with Dan 9:4; the Jews failed regardless of what they did with rock. Jesus is now building the New Jerusalem and He is using rocks; Himself as the cornerstone, the twelve apostles as the foundation stones and everyone who enters is a piece of masonry but the New Jerusalem is not about rocks it is about people.

The SDA's is an institutionalised interpretation of scripture and assumptions and as far as institutionalised interpretations go it is better than any I have seen but there isn't a prise to be won for interpretation; there is a prise to be lost from wrong interpretation that leads to a fairy tale covenant; I am able to see prophesy fulfilled very day and this serves my convictions but I still feel nervous.

 

[BobRyan]

The Sanctuary of God has always existed and will always exist and is not dependent on tents or temples. God is the sanctuary,

Certainly that is a nice platitude but it completely ignores history and the text of Daniel 9 -- so then back to the "actual Bible".

In the actual Bible - the first coming of Christ is predicted accurately in the 490 year timeline prophecy that points to the start of his ministry and the cross in the midst of that last week of years. And the timeline starts with the decree to rebuild Jerusalem.

And to anoint the Most Holy.


25 “Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;
The street shall be built again, and the wall,
Even in troublesome times.

26 “And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,

The heavenly sanctuary is built by God and Christ is the High Priest in it -- this is the "main point" Hebrews 8:1-6

Daniel 8 points to a time when the sanctuary in heaven would begin the Day of Atonement phase - the time of judgment seen in Daniel 7... that solves the same "little horn" problem seen in both Daniel 7 and Daniel 8.

A 2300 year timeline that begins at the same time as the 490 year timeline - and ends in 1844.

=====================

Hebrews 8
Now this is the main point of the things we are saying: We have such a High Priest, who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a Minister of the sanctuary and of the true tabernacle which the Lord erected, and not man.

3 For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices. Therefore it is necessary that this One also have something to offer. 4 For if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer the gifts according to the law; 5 who serve the copy and shadow of the heavenly things, as Moses was divinely instructed when he was about to make the tabernacle. For He said, “See that you make all things according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.” 6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.

 

[sparow]

Certainly that is a nice platitude but it completely ignores history and the text of Daniel 9 -- so then back to the "actual Bible".

In the actual Bible - the first coming of Christ is predicted accurately in the 490 year timeline prophecy that points to the start of his ministry and the cross in the midst of that last week of years. And the timeline starts with the decree to rebuild Jerusalem.

And to anoint the Most Holy.


25 “Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;
The street shall be built again, and the wall,
Even in troublesome times.

26 “And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,

The heavenly sanctuary is built by God and Christ is the High Priest in it -- this is the "main point" Hebrews 8:1-6

Daniel 8 points to a time when the sanctuary in heaven would begin the Day of Atonement phase - the time of judgment seen in Daniel 7... that solves the same "little horn" problem seen in both Daniel 7 and Daniel 8.

A 2300 year timeline that begins at the same time as the 490 year timeline - and ends in 1844.

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Hebrews 8
Now this is the main point of the things we are saying: We have such a High Priest, who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a Minister of the sanctuary and of the true tabernacle which the Lord erected, and not man.

3 For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices. Therefore it is necessary that this One also have something to offer. 4 For if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer the gifts according to the law; 5 who serve the copy and shadow of the heavenly things, as Moses was divinely instructed when he was about to make the tabernacle. For He said, “See that you make all things according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.” 6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.

I am aware that I do not express myself well but I am having problems understanding what we are debating. You seem to be taking the text literally where I see the text mostly symbolic language. So in verse 26 the sanctuary is destroyed; what does that mean, does the sanctuary still exist such that it can be trodden under foot? This sanctuary where the curtain ripped and the spirit of God departed; is this really the sanctuary that is trodden underfoot for 2300 days? When did God build the sanctuary in heaven; did Jesus build it after his crucifixion; who exactly is or was treading the heavenly sanctuary underfoot?