Gal 4 "under the Law" vs "under Grace" in Romans 6 and not sinning

[bugkiller]

you said the law does not speak.. and question my premise. lets stick to bible and bible only.

Does the law calls out (speaks as if it had a mouth) by name all the sins that we have committed or not? Rom 7:7
is it because of sin (my actions and no one else) that we are dead and not the law? Rom 6:23
Will the the HOLY Spirit teach us something different than the Son or the Father? John 14:23-29

On regard to the capitalizing Ms. White's name is called proper English grammar.

But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death. James 1:14,15

DESIRE a strong feeling of wanting to have something or wishing for something to happen.

Bob questioning the capitalization of the name of a person in the English language and seeing that you dont do it, it tells me a lot about you.
From now on, any time that you post, I will only reply with "I am praying for you my brother".

Dont know what happened to you but you are hurting bad. My prayers are with you.

Blessings

You need to read Rom 7 more closely. It plainly says the law is dead. It also plainly states we are now delivered from the law.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

you said the law does not speak.. and question my premise. lets stick to bible and bible only.

Does the law calls out (speaks as if it had a mouth) by name all the sins that we have committed or not? Rom 7:7
is it because of sin (my actions and no one else) that we are dead and not the law? Rom 6:23
Will the the HOLY Spirit teach us something different than the Son or the Father? John 14:23-29

On regard to the capitalizing Ms. White's name is called proper English grammar.

Also noted in your post is Savior, and God are spelled with lower case. If you're referring to the God I serve it is proper English to use a capital "g" and same goes for Savior. To yuse a lower case "g" in English indicates a pagan or some other god besides the Supreme God, Creator of the universe.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Bob S, you are a stand up guy. I'm sure we can work out any confusion by holding on to what scripture reinforces. First I will give my understanding of Galatians 3:21.
Paul first asks: Does the law oppose or hinder God's promises to bless all nations through Abraham's seed? NO, Here's why. If any one of the commandments (law) had promised eternal life, then men could become righteous by the law. (They wouldn't need the promise)
Friend, this scripture is saying that not one of the 613+ commandments promised eternal life. It's also saying that: 'If' any one of commandments promised life, then righteousness would have been attainable by the law.
We probably agree that righteousness is right doing or doing right.
Being created in the image of God, we were righteous until sin (wrong doing).
Abraham's faith was credited for righteousness means that righteousness is not only related to the law.


Now concerning Deut 6:25. This is not Moses idea, it is God who told Moses to command the people to keep the law for righteousness.

Since no one does right and therefore doesn't keep the law can't be righteous. Ps 14:3 The righteousness God requires doesn't come from even keeping he law perfectly. We inherited our sin from our father Adam.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

First and foremost, please forgive me it was never my intent to hurt you in anyway. The truth to me it is never offensive. I get discomfort with lies.
in the same heaven worship the same god
On the note of the Godhead, Bob proper English grammar. when we speak of the Creator, the Almighty, we are then talking about God. When we speak about the gods of the universe, we dont capitalize it. Furthermore, it is for us to make notice and have good, solid, biblical foundation so we are not caught up, trapped, by our false teachings, guided by our emotions.

So on the lashing part, Ellen is a woman's name. A rule (law) of grammar in the English language is that the first letter of a person's name must be capitalized. When we dont do so is because of ignorance to the fact or choice. You openly said you choose to. If I may continue, when we choose to disobey or do as expected or told, to go against the truth, we cant blame no one else but ourselves. I LIKE IT AND THAT IS WHAT I WANT TO DO. James 1:12-18.
I love the bible.

Bob on regard to my personal walk with the Lord. I have been a baptized member of the SDA church since 1999, a servant of our Lord Jesus Christ since 2004. On 03', I was blessed to be the Youth Sabbath School teacher, deacon, Pathfinder counselor, AY activity director for the local church and assisted on a conference level. And this was on a 600 member church.
Since 04' that I met the Lord, for the last 12 years, I have been blessed to assist to lead His church.
Thru me the Lord

1. has turn a couple of small churches 10 to 60 or better in less than 6 months.
2. has kept churches from closing
3. has saved marriages
4. has saved souls
5. an much more
6. the best, He is saved me by putting my faith in Him into action

I dont like titles or nicknames: some call me

1. elder (ordain for over 10 years)
2. International Evangelist (Mexico, Honduras, Dom Rep, several US states)
3. pastor (assisted several districts)

He has blessed me with many talents, in particular:

1. can read and understand the bible without the aid of anyone but Himself
2. can preach a new sermon on a minute notice. 1 minute to pray and open the bible
3. can see and hear Him

Should I, I ,I, I, i continue?

it is never about how long we have been reading the bible but do we know Jesus?
you should know by the fruit of the spirit.

Not avoiding but didnt see a need to get into a who's the best, knows Him longer.
Our Lord Jesus Christ didnt call attention to Himself by boasting about His persona.
Nor did He do anything to be praised. People saw something in Him that they needed and
wanted.
I will leave you with this Note:
When my son was around 12 years old, I wanted to get his attention and interest on the bible.
I was planning to do so by showing him how much I knew. So I asked him to read a text in the
bible and tell me what he thought about it. Surprised was I. He spoke on the matter in ways that
I had never heard before. I was amazed by my son at 12 and I was almost 40 and a leader in the church.

God bless

So what exactly are you saying? That we should believe you and take your position? Are you really not calling us ignorant? What you say just doesn't line up with the complete Bible.

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

Since no one does right and therefore doesn't keep the law

Romans 8:4-9 says only the wicked lost are at war with the Law of God - they 'do not - and indeed they can not keep God's law'

 

[bugkiller]

Romans 8:4-9 says only the wicked lost are at war with the Law of God - they 'do not - and indeed they can not keep God's law'

NOPE!!!

bugkiller

 

[Cribstyl]

Romans 8:4-9 says only the wicked lost are at war with the Law of God - they 'do not - and indeed they can not keep God's law'

Truth matters BobRyan-
SDA have to ignore that the context first say, that believers in Christ are free from the law of sin and death. You're also ignoring addressing what the law could not do. Your eisegesis is contradicting what Paul is teaching. (shame on you)
Rom8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Obviously you're in denial that Paul is teaching that believers are free from the law and not under the law.
Truth being preached is; Believers are required to have faith in who Christ, in order to receive His Spirit. 'Walking in the Spirit' does not mean keeping the law.
Paul is saying: If you're walking in the Spirit, the law will be fulfilled by your obedience to the commands of faith. (You don't have to be under the law to do right.)

Consider the fact that Paul taught: "Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by the hearing of faith?"
Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Gal 3:4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
Gal 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

 

[Cribstyl]

The term "under the LAW" in Gal 4 -- means under the obligation of the ceremonial law apart from faith.

Rom 9
30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; 31 but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone.

1 John 3:4 - "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" both in OT and also by NT standards

So then in Rom 6 Paul speaks about the obligation not to SIN - even though not "under the law" -- not under the condemnation of the LAW.

Rom 6
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered

1 john 2:1 "these things I write to you that you sin NOT"

The Covenant at Sinai with Israel included
"Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18

And 40 years later Moses reminds them --
"Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5

Christ continues to affirm them in Matt 22 , pre-cross - the Law of Moses upheld.

So then why is Paul associating Sinai with the old covenant in Gal 4?

Because the ceremonial law is no longer in effect.

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" as compared to the ceremonial laws such as circumcision - as we see in this example from 1Cor 7:19

notice how Christ upholds what "Moses said" in Mark 7 calling it "The WORD of GOD"

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

John 14:15 "IF you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments"

"Love ME and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:6 -- from the TEN Commandments.

No wonder NT authors affirm the TEN Commandments as part of the moral law of God for the saints even in the NT as we see here
14 minutes ago #1


Heb 8:6-10 Christ's New Covenant and His TEN Commandments at Sinai
6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.

A New Covenant
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, He says,

“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I will effect a New Covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
On the day when I took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.

In response to your OP. It appears that you started a thread with a big big big false statement (You said:The term "under the LAW" in Gal 4 -- means under the obligation of the ceremonial law apart from faith.)
The scripture you cited was;
Galatians chapter 4 verse 21-31
Tell me you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says? For it is written that Abraham had two sons,one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. His son by the slave woman was born in the ordinary way; but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a promise.
These things may be taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants.

The scripture is teaching about the women representing two covenants.
One covenant relating to Hagar (Ishmael) and Sinai is the Mosaic Covenant. (The law, The Ten Commandments is the Covenant. You appear in denial by talking about ceremonial laws)
The other covenant relating to the free woman Sarah,(Isaac) relating to Jerusalem (The seed Jesus) is the Abrahamic Covenant.

 

[tzadik]

Truth matters BobRyan-
SDA have to ignore that the context first say, that believers in Christ are free from the law of sin and death. You're also ignoring addressing what the law could not do.

Am I missing something here or is Paul once again speaking of various types of laws?
The Holy Law of God is definitely NOT the same as the law of sin and death.
I think that most of the problems and misinterpretation of Paul comes from the failure to realize that there are atleast 13 types of laws in the Pauline epistles. If we lump them all together and call it the Law of God, as in the "Torah", the Holy, Righteous and Perfect Law of the Father, we are making a grave error. Not to mention we will have a billion contradictions. Unfortunately for us the Greek work "nomos" is used for all 13+ kinds of laws.

Rom8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Perfect example of different types of laws in the verse you quoted above.
The law of sin and death (NOT the Holy Law of God) is what we are set free from. It could be argued from many Christian's point of view that as Gentiles we were NEVER under what they call the Law of God given through Moses, so how can we be made free from a law that was not given to us to begin with?
Answer---the law of sin and death is a law given to ALL children of Adam as a result of sin.

 

[Bob S]

Am I missing something here or is Paul once again speaking of various types of laws?
The Holy Law of God is definitely NOT the same as the law of sin and death.
I think that most of the problems and misinterpretation of Paul comes from the failure to realize that there are atleast 13 types of laws in the Pauline epistles. If we lump them all together and call it the Law of God, as in the "Torah", the Holy, Righteous and Perfect Law of the Father, we are making a grave error. Not to mention we will have a billion contradictions. Unfortunately for us the Greek work "nomos" is used for all 13+ kinds of laws.


Perfect example of different types of laws in the verse you quoted above.
The law of sin and death (NOT the Holy Law of God) is what we are set free from. It could be argued from many Christian's point of view that as Gentiles we were NEVER under what they call the Law of God given through Moses, so how can we be made free from a law that was not given to us to begin with?
Answer---the law of sin and death is a law given to ALL children of Adam as a result of sin.

Thank you very much for agreeing that we are set free from the the law of death. That is exactly what Paul wrote in 2Cor3: 7-11. I might at this point reveal to you that Paul was writing about none other than the 10 commandments. The ones you think are so Holy.

7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone,(the 10 commandments) came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory (temporary) though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory (temporary)came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

 

[tzadik]

I might at this point reveal to you that Paul was writing about none other than the 10 commandments. The ones you think are so Holy.

I'm not the one who "thinks" that God’s Law (including the 10 commandments) are Holy, but the Word of God states over and over and over again that they are Holy, Perfect, Righteous and the Truth. (do you agree?)

7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone,(the 10 commandments) came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory (temporary) though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory (temporary)came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

The point Paul is making here, very much like in Romans is that the Law of God or any commandments of God apart from the Spirit of God will indeed bring nothing but death. (the curse of the law). The Law of God is Spiritual (Rom 7:14), and it is only when we are led by the Spirit that we are able to correctly understand, apply and follow the Spiritual Law of God.

Romans 7:13 was basically written to you: “Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.”
The problem was, is and never will be the Law of God. It is always our reaction to His Law and our sin. Once we are saved and redeemed by the blood of the Lamb by grace through faith ALONE – as Spiritual born again believers we are now able to subject ourselves to the Holy and Spiritual Law of God. Romans 8:6-8 reminds us that “the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the Law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.” But I am NOT in the flesh but as a redeemed son of God I am in the Spirit because the Spirit of God dwells with me, and I can like Paul Joyfully concur with the Law of God!

 

[bugkiller]

Am I missing something here or is Paul once again speaking of various types of laws?
The Holy Law of God is definitely NOT the same as the law of sin and death.
I think that most of the problems and misinterpretation of Paul comes from the failure to realize that there are atleast 13 types of laws in the Pauline epistles. If we lump them all together and call it the Law of God, as in the "Torah", the Holy, Righteous and Perfect Law of the Father, we are making a grave error. Not to mention we will have a billion contradictions. Unfortunately for us the Greek work "nomos" is used for all 13+ kinds of laws.


Perfect example of different types of laws in the verse you quoted above.
The law of sin and death (NOT the Holy Law of God) is what we are set free from. It could be argued from many Christian's point of view that as Gentiles we were NEVER under what they call the Law of God given through Moses, so how can we be made free from a law that was not given to us to begin with?
Answer---the law of sin and death is a law given to ALL children of Adam as a result of sin.

Without the Holy Law of God the law of sin and death has no power. The law is the authority to punish sin with death. One can't be charged if there was no law. See Romans.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

I'm not the one who "thinks" that God’s Law (including the 10 commandments) are Holy, but the Word of God states over and over and over again that they are Holy, Perfect, Righteous and the Truth. (do you agree?)



The point Paul is making here, very much like in Romans is that the Law of God or any commandments of God apart from the Spirit of God will indeed bring nothing but death. (the curse of the law). The Law of God is Spiritual (Rom 7:14), and it is only when we are led by the Spirit that we are able to correctly understand, apply and follow the Spiritual Law of God.

Romans 7:13 was basically written to you: “Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.”
The problem was, is and never will be the Law of God. It is always our reaction to His Law and our sin. Once we are saved and redeemed by the blood of the Lamb by grace through faith ALONE – as Spiritual born again believers we are now able to subject ourselves to the Holy and Spiritual Law of God. Romans 8:6-8 reminds us that “the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the Law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.” But I am NOT in the flesh but as a redeemed son of God I am in the Spirit because the Spirit of God dwells with me, and I can like Paul Joyfully concur with the Law of God!

No the problem is sin which was before the law according to my Bible. That is provable even with Moses written words.

bugkiller

 

[tzadik]

Without the Holy Law of God the law of sin and death has no power.

But of course since Sin is defined by the Law of God. The only absolute right and wrong code comes from the Word of God (including the Law). Sin and the wages of sin are only visible when we are judged by the Law of God.
Thankfully for those who have been bought by the blood of the Lamb, we have an advocate and we are no longer under the condemnation that the law of sin and death bring!

The law is the authority to punish sin with death. One can't be charged if there was no law. See Romans.

Read above.
But now that I have been redeemed and set free from the law of sin and death...that is the law that says that the wages for my sin is eternal death, and since I have been born again of the Spirit, my relationship with the Holy Law of God is not one of fear, dread, and shame, but rather of Joy, delight and reverence. Do we make null/void/abolish/cancel the Law of God when we come to faith???? God Forbid! We uphold/establish it Romans 3:31.

 

[Bob S]

I'm not the one who "thinks" that God’s Law (including the 10 commandments) are Holy, but the Word of God states over and over and over again that they are Holy, Perfect, Righteous and the Truth. (do you agree?)

So, you don't believe God's laws are Holy? I agree any part of the law that pertained to morality is forever ( Until Jesus come again.) The ritual parts of the law were for Israel only and do not pertain to Christians. The New Covenant contain all moral issues and are called the royal law of love. That is how we know we are doing what God wants us to do 1Jn3.

The point Paul is making here, very much like in Romans is that the Law of God or any commandments of God apart from the Spirit of God will indeed bring nothing but death. (the curse of the law).

Sorry my friend that is not what Paul wrote, Maybe you would like for him to have written that, but he didn't. Please go back and read it again. The 10 commandments were temporary laws. They were given exclusively to Israel and lasted until God finally said enough is enough. Israel broke the covenant, so there was no longer a covenant between Israel and God. The promised land was taken from them, the Temple was torn down and Jews scattered all over the World. No more priesthood, no more burning of offerings for sins, no more Levitical tithing and all the other restrictions Israel was to live by.

The Law of God is Spiritual (Rom 7:14), and it is only when we are led by the Spirit that we are able to correctly understand, apply and follow the Spiritual Law of God.

There is a marked difference between moral laws and ritual laws. The ritual laws found wrapped up with the moral code have to be separated because the rituals were given only to Israel. All the other nations could not conform to or would even need to conform to those laws. So it is with Christians today, we need not conform to laws that do not pertain to us. You are on very shaky ground thumping ritual law to Christians.

Romans 7:13 was basically written to you:

How about that, I have something from the Bible which only pertains to me. I am honored. By the way, what is "basically"

“Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.”
The problem was, is and never will be the Law of God. It is always our reaction to His Law and our sin. Once we are saved and redeemed by the blood of the Lamb by grace through faith ALONE – as Spiritual born again believers we are now able to subject ourselves to the Holy and Spiritual Law of God. Romans 8:6-8 reminds us that “the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the Law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.” But I am NOT in the flesh but as a redeemed son of God I am in the Spirit because the Spirit of God dwells with me, and I can like Paul Joyfully concur with the Law of God!

Breaking ritual laws such as the Israelite Sabbath was a sin for all to whom it pertained. It is not a sin for me because it is not part of the covenant Jesus made with all mankind. Get the point?

 

[tzadik]

So, you don't believe God's laws are Holy? I agree any part of the law that pertained to morality is forever ( Until Jesus come again.) The ritual parts of the law were for Israel only and do not pertain to Christians. The New Covenant contain all moral issues and are called the royal law of love. That is how we know we are doing what God wants us to do 1Jn3.

There is absolutely zero mention anywhere in the entire Bible where God separates and “categorizes” his commandments. All of God’s commandments make up His Torah (His Holy Instructions to His Children).

There is no such Biblical thing as a ritual part of the Law. What God says is right today is right tomorrow. What God says is wrong today is wrong tomorrow.

God’s Law is Spiritual. God’s Law is God’s Word. God’s Law is Perfect. God’s Law is Good. God’s Law is Righteous. God’s Law is TRUTH. As a child of God, it is an honor and privilege for me to read, apply, follow, and obey the commandments of God. Nothing burdensome about them (Deut 30:11-14/ 1 John 5:3).

I am grateful that God was so gracious as to give us His Word where He clearly tells us what pleases Him and what doesn’t. From the food we eat to the way we live. It’s all there.

 

[tzadik]

Sorry my friend that is not what Paul wrote, Maybe you would like for him to have written that, but he didn't. Please go back and read it again. The 10 commandments were temporary laws.

I’m almost not sure if you are joking or not. Are you seriously claiming that the commandments that God restated in Exodus 20:1-17 are commandments that we are free to break and transgress as we please today?
Are you telling me that you are now free to serve and bow down to other gods, to dishonor your parents, to blaspheme God’s name, to lie, cheat on our spouses, steal, murder and covet as we please, because after all the clear commandments from God were only temporal?

Please show me anywhere in the Scriptures where God cancels any of His commandments or tells us that they are temporal.
What is temporal about these verses?

Exodus 31:16 “So the sons of Israel shall observe the sabbath, to celebrate the sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.”
Leviticus 24:8 "Every sabbath day he shall set it in order before the LORD continually; it is an everlasting covenant for the sons of Israel.”
What does God’s forever and perpetual mean to you?

 

[tzadik]

They were given exclusively to Israel and lasted until God finally said enough is enough.
Israel broke the covenant, so there was no longer a covenant between Israel and God.

God HAD to choose a nation whereby to reveal Himself, His Son, His Word, His Salvation to the world. He could’ve chosen America, Africa, England, China, you name it.
He chose Israel. He chose Abraham and formed the nation of Israel, and it was only THROUGH Israel that all of the above plus some was instroduced to an unbelieving world.
Israel’s breaking of the covenant happened so that you and I could be added to His people. When I was chosen and redeemed, I joined and became part of God’s family, a family that consists of Abraham, Isaac, David, Paul, Peter and the thief of the cross. God’s family is not a family that “started” sometime in Acts 2 or after Yeshua (Jesus) died on the cross, but rather this family includes ALL who have believed and are called by His name.

The promised land was taken from them, the Temple was torn down and Jews scattered all over the World. No more priesthood, no more burning of offerings for sins, no more Levitical tithing and all the other restrictions Israel was to live by.

You are 100% right. The Temple was destroyed. Without a temple, there cannot be a priesthood. Without a priesthood and a temple, there cannot be offerings and sacrifices.
But you are 100% wrong with your lumping of “the other restrictions Israel was to live by” with the Temple being destroyed.

Honoring their mother and father had nothing to do with the Temple. They were/are still required to be obedient to that law of God.
Loving their neighbor had nothing to do with the Temple. They were/are still required to be obedient to that law of God.
Taking good care of their animals had nothing to do with the Temple. They were/are still required to be obedient to that law of God.
Not working and setting apart God’s Holy Sabbath day was not contingent on the Temple. They were/are still required to to be obedient to that law of God.
Eating animals and things that God deemed as unclean and not food had nothing to do with the Temple. They were/are still required to be obedient to that law of God.
God’s commandments surrounding the Temple were very specific. In fact it would be disobeying the Law of God to attempt to keep any of the sacrificial/priesthood/Temple laws outside of the Temple.

 

[tzadik]

There is a marked difference between moral laws and ritual laws. The ritual laws found wrapped up with the moral code have to be separated because the rituals were given only to Israel.

Once again this “marked difference” is pulled out of thin air as it isn’t found anywhere in the Bible.
In fact what IS found is that everyone who wanted to serve and follow the one and Only God of Israel, joined themselves to His people and were to abide by His Commandments. No picking and choosing. One Torah (Instruction) for all who joined and served the one true God.

All the other nations could not conform to or would even need to conform to those laws.

The other nations were unbelieving and lost.
If any one from the nations wanted to repent and turn away from their wicked ways and believe and cling to God, they would be joined (just like it is now) to the body of believers and abide by the instructions of God’s Kingdom.
God doesn’t have a set of Holy Instructions for those with Jewish blood and another for those witn non-Jewish blood. God’s commandments and Instructions are Spiritual and applicable by ALL those who have been born of the Spirit.
Salvation isn’t a matter of bloodline. Inclusion in the Kingdom is not a matter of bloodline. All of God’s Word is applicable to All of His Children.

So it is with Christians today, we need not conform to laws that do not pertain to us. You are on very shaky ground thumping ritual law to Christians.

And therein lies the irony.
I am claiming and encouraging all believers who have been born again through the Spirit of God to follow and adhere to the ALL of the Spiritual Word of God.
You on the other hand are encouraging believers who have been born again through the Spirit of God to disregard 2/3 of the Spiritual Word of God as not applicable to them. (Please correct me if I’m wrong)

 

[BABerean2]

And therein lies the irony.
I am claiming and encouraging all believers who have been born again through the Spirit of God to follow and adhere to the ALL of the Spiritual Word of God.
You on the other hand are encouraging believers who have been born again through the Spirit of God to disregard 2/3 of the Spiritual Word of God as not applicable to them. (Please correct me if I’m wrong)

What did the Apostle Paul say about the Sinai covenant being applicable to Christians?

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. (Here the Apostle Paul compares the Sinai covenant to bondage.)

Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. (Again, Sinai is compared to bondage.)

Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
(New Jerusalem is now in heaven. Hebrews 11:16)

Gal 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
(Here Paul compels the Galatians to cast out the Sinai covenant of bondage and says that the inheritance does not come through the Sinai covenant.)

Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

We are the children of the New Covenant, instead of the Sinai covenant which was made "obsolete", based on Hebrews 8:13.

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