The Pinnacle of Evolution

[StanJ]

Prove that there is a spritual world.

Prove you don't have one.

 

[VirOptimus]

Prove you don't have one.

No, you make the claim, you support it. Thats the way it works.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Present evidence what you call; "the fallen condition" should be included in the TOE.

This is a part of Theistic Evolution, my objection is with non theistic evolution. God has everything planed from the beginning. That is why He knows the end from the beginning. Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega. Even Science knows the Universe has an End and a Beginning.

As Francis Collins says:
"In the very moment of that flash in which the universe was created, an unimaginable burst of energy, God also had the plan of how that would coalesce into stars and galaxies, planets, and how life would arrive on a small planet near the outer rim of a spiral galaxy. And ultimately, over hundreds of millions of years, give rise to creatures with intelligence and in whom he could infuse this search for him and this knowledge of good and evil. And all of that happened in his mind in the blink of an eye. While it may seem to us that this whole process has the risk of randomness and, therefore, an unpredictable outcome, that was not the case for God."

Read more at http://www.beliefnet.com/news/scien...cientific-adventures.aspx#r7QKcoG3SuePj7z7.99

 

[bhsmte]

This is a part of Theistic Evolution, my objection is with non theistic evolution. God has everything planed from the beginning. That is why He knows the end from the beginning. Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega. Even Science knows the Universe has an End and a Beginning.

As Francis Collins says:
"In the very moment of that flash in which the universe was created, an unimaginable burst of energy, God also had the plan of how that would coalesce into stars and galaxies, planets, and how life would arrive on a small planet near the outer rim of a spiral galaxy. And ultimately, over hundreds of millions of years, give rise to creatures with intelligence and in whom he could infuse this search for him and this knowledge of good and evil. And all of that happened in his mind in the blink of an eye. While it may seem to us that this whole process has the risk of randomness and, therefore, an unpredictable outcome, that was not the case for God."

Read more at http://www.beliefnet.com/news/scien...cientific-adventures.aspx#r7QKcoG3SuePj7z7.99

And what is Collin's evidence to include God in science?

The answer is, he has none and he admits to the same. He is also honest enough, to say he believes what he does on faith and he doesn't let that get in the way of recognizing well evidenced science.

 

[bhsmte]

Prove you don't have one.

Ah, shifting the burden after you make a claim.

What a shock!

 

[joshua 1 9]

And what is Collin's evidence to include God in science?

The answer is, he has none and he admits to the same. He is also honest enough, to say he believes what he does on faith and he doesn't let that get in the way of recognizing well evidenced science.

The question is what tree bears fruit and what tree does not produce fruit. What can stand the test of time. The works of Moses have stood the test of time for over 3500 years. Every generation has verified that the Bible is accurate and true. Collins verifies that the Bible is accurate and true.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Prove that there is a spritual world.

The fact that there is a Holy Spirit is a part of the Statement of faith.

 

[bhsmte]

The question is what tree bears fruit and what tree does not produce fruit. What can stand the test of time. The works of Moses have stood the test of time for over 3500 years. Every generation has verified that the Bible is accurate and true. Collins verifies that the Bible is accurate and true.

How exactly does Collin's verify the bible is accurate and true and be specific? And since Collin's doesn't let the bible get in the way of him strongly agreeing with the theory of evolution as being true, you must disagree with his interpretation of the bible.

Next, show us how you evaluate what bears fruit and what the source of that is?

 

[bhsmte]

The fact that there is a Holy Spirit is a part of the Statement of faith.

Back up a moment.

Demonstrate in a verifiable way, there exists a holy spirit.

 

[Hoghead1]

This is a part of Theistic Evolution, my objection is with non theistic evolution. God has everything planed from the beginning. That is why He knows the end from the beginning. Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega. Even Science knows the Universe has an End and a Beginning.

As Francis Collins says:
"In the very moment of that flash in which the universe was created, an unimaginable burst of energy, God also had the plan of how that would coalesce into stars and galaxies, planets, and how life would arrive on a small planet near the outer rim of a spiral galaxy. And ultimately, over hundreds of millions of years, give rise to creatures with intelligence and in whom he could infuse this search for him and this knowledge of good and evil. And all of that happened in his mind in the blink of an eye. While it may seem to us that this whole process has the risk of randomness and, therefore, an unpredictable outcome, that was not the case for God."

Read more at http://www.beliefnet.com/news/scien...cientific-adventures.aspx#r7QKcoG3SuePj7z7.99

Sounds like predestination. As such, I reject it on the grounds it denies human freedom and also makes God the author of evil.

 

[Hoghead1]

God is restoring creation back to His purpose and intention.
TOE does not take into consideration the fallen condition of creation.

Theistic evolution does, however.

 

[Hoghead1]

So evolution is not based on natural laws then. Of course not because it is just a man made fairly tale. [poe's law]

How on earth did you reach that conclusion?

 

[Lulav]

MOD HAT


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[joshua 1 9]

since Collin's doesn't let the bible get in the way of him strongly agreeing with the theory of evolution as being true, you must disagree with his interpretation of the bible.

I do not disagree with Collins in any substantial way. If they want to teach his understanding of Theistic Evolution in the school system that would be fine with me.

 

[joshua 1 9]

How on earth did you reach that conclusion?

Do you know the meaning of Poe's Law? That means do not take this statement serious. It is considered proper etiquette on this fourm that if you are not serious they want you to point that out to people.

 

[Hoghead1]

Do you know the meaning of Poe's Law? That means do not take this statement serious. It is considered proper etiquette on this fourm that if you are not serious they want you to point that out to people.

Huh? I simply asked you a question. What is the problem you are having with this? You think I'm not being serious? C'mon. If I wasn't, I wouldn't have asked the question.

 

[Hoghead1]

I do not disagree with Collins in any substantial way. If they want to teach his understanding of Theistic Evolution in the school system that would be fine with me.

They really shouldn't be teaching anything about theology or religion in the school system simply because the schools are not equipped for that. That's what we have churches for. Also, it is standard fare for universities to present all kinds of courses on religion and theology. But see, the universities have a qualified staff to do so.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Evolution is not a study of any sort, and you said that evolution was the study of natural laws. You were misusing a word, so I was correcting you on its definition. I also provided the word for the study of natural laws, which is physics. As a response to the quoted reply, evolution is not based on natural laws. Nothing is. Natural laws are based on consistent patterns and properties of matter and the like, and everything that exists ( Physical or conceptual ) adheres to these patterns and properties. Another thing; I can say that any religion or belief is "just a man made fairy tale", but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's true. You need evidence to back up your claim. I have evidence to back up evolution, available at your request. You should have evidence to disprove evolution if you're claiming that it is in fact "a man made fairy tale".

According to Wiki Natural laws do apply to Biology. What makes you think that natural laws do no not apply to Biology?

"The laws of science, scientific laws, or scientific principles are statements that describe or predict a range of phenomena behave as they appear to in nature.[1] The term "law" has diverse usage in many cases: approximate, accurate, broad or narrow theories, in all natural scientific disciplines (physics, chemistry, biology, geology, astronomy etc.)" wiki

 

[StanJ]

Your opinion is that God created procreation to perpetuate life as we know it. I didn't fail to mention that, I chose not to mention it because I do not believe that your statement about procreation is true.

No I'm stating a fact, you can view it as an opinion if you want to but that doesn't change the fact.

 

[Hoghead1]

According to Wiki Natural laws do apply to Biology. What makes you think that natural laws do no not apply to Biology?

"The laws of science, scientific laws, or scientific principles are statements that describe or predict a range of phenomena behave as they appear to in nature.[1] The term "law" has diverse usage in many cases: approximate, accurate, broad or narrow theories, in all natural scientific disciplines (physics, chemistry, biology, geology, astronomy etc.)" wiki

I think he is rejecting the realist concept of natural laws and going with the nominalists. In short, there are no natural laws out there, separate and detachable and external from events. Rather, the laws are abstractions, based on observations of common behaviors. As abstractions, they do not describe the whole of reality. No events taking placer, no natural laws.