Non-duality (Orthodox/Roman)

[JM]

[Caution: Much of what will be discussed is unorthodox to Protestantism, Anglican, Lutheran and Calvinism. I'm not interested in debate just interested in tossing some ideas out there for discussion with my Protestant/Calvinistic brothers and sisters.]

Ok, here goes, I took a break from my normal regimented reading scheduled and added in some Eastern philosophical traditions and religions. I've read a lot of the Vedas, The Upanishads, Dhammapada, Zen, Bhagavad Gita, etc. The one element that seems very common, especially with all mystical traditions, is the idea of non-duality. Non-dualism can be defined with some slight differences according to traditional religious ideas and terms used but essentially non-dual means you are connected to everything around you. Nothing is separate. The goal is to recognize that you are not a sovereign individual but only a part of the whole. It's "New Age" but a really old philosophy. You will encounter this philosophy daily, in Yoga class and even certain styles of Martial Arts.

Any thoughts on non-dual philosophy?

How has it impacted modern relativistic thought? Is relativism essentially the outworking of non-dualism? Which sects (I'm assuming Gnostic) in the early church taught non-dualism? Did the early church fathers write against them? I've noticed some allusions in Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox mystic works about being assumed by "Love" and love often means God, it really sounds a lot like the Hindu or Buddhist mystical experience. Are they related?

I believe they are and will continue to read more and post as I find similarities between the two. Now I'm switching directions and going back to reading scripture and Reformed works for a while but looking forward to reading more works on mystical prayer from RC's and EO's. Any recommendations?

Yours in the Lord,

jm

 

[twin1954]

[Caution: Much of what will be discussed is unorthodox to Protestantism, Anglican, Lutheran and Calvinism. I'm not interested in debate just interested in tossing some ideas out there for discussion with my Protestant/Calvinistic brothers and sisters.]

Ok, here goes, I took a break from my normal regimented reading scheduled and added in some Eastern philosophical traditions and religions. I've read a lot of the Vedas, The Upanishads, Dhammapada, Zen, Bhagavad Gita, etc. The one element that seems very common, especially with all mystical traditions, is the idea of non-duality. Non-dualism can be defined with some slight differences according to traditional religious ideas and terms used but essentially non-dual means you are connected to everything around you. Nothing is separate. The goal is to recognize that you are not a sovereign individual but only a part of the whole. It's "New Age" but a really old philosophy. You will encounter this philosophy daily, in Yoga class and even certain styles of Martial Arts.

Any thoughts on non-dual philosophy?

How has it impacted modern relativistic thought? Is relativism essentially the outworking of non-dualism? Which sects (I'm assuming Gnostic) in the early church taught non-dualism? Did the early church fathers write against them? I've noticed some allusions in Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox mystic works about being assumed by "Love" and love often means God, it really sounds a lot like the Hindu or Buddhist mystical experience. Are they related?

I believe they are and will continue to read more and post as I find similarities between the two. Now I'm switching directions and going back to reading scripture and Reformed works for a while but looking forward to reading more works on mystical prayer from RC's and EO's. Any recommendations?

Yours in the Lord,

jm

I believe man's goal since the Fall has been autonomy and control of his own destiny. Yet when you look at all the different god's man has created in the centuries since we find out that man is always coming back to the simple truth that God is God. Man deals with it in many various ways and seeks to be "enlightened" spiritually by an experience or vision or good works or some other thing. It is all just man trying to deny God.

 

[gord44]

reading more works on mystical prayer from RC's and EO's. Any recommendations?

The Art of Prayer by Igumen Chariton

 

[JM]

gORD-ie, have you read that title? Looks interesting.

One of your favs...?

 

[gord44]

gORD-ie, have you read that title? Looks interesting.

I have it. Send me your address again and if I can find it I will ship it your way.

 

[GQ Chris]

Man is totally and utterly depraved. He is religiously zealous when it's convenient, but is caught in a bizarre quasi-religious paradigm of asceticism and debauchery; he feels that he will somehow reach a higher divine plane if he totally quits masturbating, but is totally okay with getting blown out drunk or drugged up and high.

 

[gord44]

Man is totally and utterly depraved. He is religiously zealous when it's convenient, but is caught in a bizarre quasi-religious paradigm of asceticism and debauchery; he feels that he will somehow reach a higher divine plane if he totally quits masturbating, but is totally okay with getting blown out drunk or drugged up and high.

The path of purity is silly. I agree with Reformed folk in that man may try and raise himself to perfection (or enlightenment) but ultimately it's a fool's errand as man is utterly depraved as you mentioned, or for me, utterly unenlightened.

 

[JM]

I have it. Send me your address again and if I can find it I will ship it your way.

Thanks gord. You have been too kind to me already so I'll pass.

Yours,

jm

 

[gord44]

Thanks gord. You have been too kind to me already so I'll pass.

Yours,

jm

Fair enough. I suppose it will just sit collecting dust then...

 

[JM]

I sent you an email....you're fast.

 

[JM]

Interesting fella.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Strange topic, looking at the Monism page on Wikipedia, appears to be yet another lengthy subject which I've only skimmed the surface of out of curiosity. I remember in the early 90's when I studied the Martial Art of Kenpō under a talented instructor with connections to Al Tracy. I remember my parents cautioning me about the connections with Eastern religions, and thankfully the instructor ran the dojo in a way sensitive to people like me. I remember though the first time watching a ceremony honoring a student who increased their belt/learning rank where everyone performed bows and feeling uncomfortable with it, but I got over it and recognized it as a way of honoring and showing respect, but just watching one of these ceremonies they have the appearance of worship. Sometimes things are a matter of perspective and what we make of them. For some of the other students, the ceremonies may have been a form of worship, I do not know, but to me it was a quiet way of hand clapping or paying tribute with a community of other students.

 

[FenderTL5]

Interesting fella.

Thank you for posting this.

 

[JM]

Strange topic, looking at the Monism page on Wikipedia, appears to be yet another lengthy subject which I've only skimmed the surface of out of curiosity. I remember in the early 90's when I studied the Martial Art of Kenpō under a talented instructor with connections to Al Tracy. I remember my parents cautioning me about the connections with Eastern religions, and thankfully the instructor ran the dojo in a way sensitive to people like me. I remember though the first time watching a ceremony honoring a student who increased their belt/learning rank where everyone performed bows and feeling uncomfortable with it, but I got over it and recognized it as a way of honoring and showing respect, but just watching one of these ceremonies they have the appearance of worship. Sometimes things are a matter of perspective and what we make of them. For some of the other students, the ceremonies may have been a form of worship, I do not know, but to me it was a quiet way of hand clapping or paying tribute with a community of other students.

I've had non dual experiences in the past mostly related to prayer but not always.

In Motion

“Mystical” Experience