The Antediluvian World - question 3 of 3

[Shempster]

I see only one explanation that does not have holes in the narrative. It also does not have a lot of bible backup either, but theres about as much as in the Gen account. It is the gap theory.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Ummmm and I have furrowed eyebrow at these statements...you seem to be accusing Skywriting of using extrabiblical literature, as if that is a bad thing....and then mention you do not accept the 66 books that make up the Bible, and cite the book of Jubilee...which is not part of the 66 books of the Bible...is that not by definition extrabiblical literature?

No, I did not say I did not accept the "66" books. I said that I do not accept the myth of "only" 66 books.
That is a modern myth.
Visit this link for the books of the 1611 authorized version, which books were also in the Geneva 1500's Bible, and in the English Douay Rheims. http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bible-Books/1611-KJV-Original-Book-Names.php

Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Protestant "canon lists" are not in concensus of agreement and never have been.
The main Jewsish population "lost" all their books when the temple was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar, But there were copies of books here and there, and Esdras, with a group appointed by him to do so, rewrote the entire Bible....but witheld from the general population many of the books which are to be given back in the last days, so says the book of Esdras in the "apocrypha/second canon" which is in many orthodox Bibles.
The Ethiopian Orthodox Church has the largest canon of any Christian Church in the world, and the Samaritan Christian Church has the smallest 9going by memory on that one, will have to look it up).

Being in "canon" lists does not make a book the "Law/Torah of YHWH", but after Torah, it is history, wisdom, the prophets of Israel, who gave "Thus saith YHWH" words to particular individuals that concern Israel and the nations of the world, but there is no more "Torah", as Moses wrote it from the mouth of God, where every jot and tittle was placed by Moses through the Spirit's direction.

History books in the Bible is not "Thus saith YHWH", but is what God does through men and what men do with or without God in their doing. So we have records of men, and their doings, and their lives, for examples and warnings, and there are the prophets who spoke to Israel's kings and rulers and priests -and Jeremiah spoke to the nations; but it all concerns Israel as the center/navel of the earth and what God's plan for the ages is.

Then finally, we have God come in flesh to
his own people, who were not nearly all scribes and wise and learned (as Paul was), but He came to reveal Himself to man as the Kinsman/Redeemer, who came to His own, first, and then to the Gentiles, as the prophets before Moses (Enoch, esp, and Noah, and the Patriarchs), prophesied about.

Jesus is the last Word from the Father, and yet He did not come to change one iota -or jot or tittle, of the Law and the prophets, but to fulfill them.


Scan of the Original 1611 KJV Table of Contents
http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bible-Books/1611-KJV-Original-Book-Names.php
1611 KJV Original Book Names

 

[mark kennedy]

This final thread is for those who believe that Genesis 4 and 5 describe real people. I would like to hear what you think we can reasonably infer about what the antediluvian world was like -- addressing the questions of when?, who?, what?, how?, where?, and why?. If you don't have an answer yourself, but are aware of someone or some organization that does, I would appreciate a reference. The main topics I am interested in are as follows:
1. History and chronology generally (see my first thread)

I counted up the begets from Adam to Noah, it's 1556 years.

2. Individuals and relationships (see my second thread)

The descendants of Cain are significant, his sons became great builders and the rise of violence bringing God's wrath is traced directly back to him. Noah was a descendant of Shem, who was the next son born after Able, as a matter of fact we are all descendants of Shem.

3. Social structures (Ex: Was Enoch a king and/or prophet?)

There is no mention of kings during the time before the flood. We know he was a prophet quoted several times in the New Testament. His son was Methusalah who is considered the oldest living man of the period and his son was Lamech, Noah's father.

4. Flora and Fauna (Ex: Did humans really walk with dinosaurs?)

Sure, you have footprints right along side one another. Not that that is going to make any difference to secular natural history.

5. Technology (Ex: What about the Great Pyramid?)

It's a little known fact, the Neanderthals had a cranial capacity 10% greater then our own. We do know something about how they did it, it's called Euclidian math, aka plane geometry. Thales was the Greek merchant who was in Egypt and learned how these right triangle solutions were used to determine property boundaries. Started a school in Greece, actually more of a small group and Pythagorean was one of his students who proved the famous Pythagorean therom. Euclid was the one who wrote down the encyclical that would become the second most popular book of nonfiction of all time, second only to the King James Bible.

6. Geography (Ex: Was there an above ground ocean then?)

It was in the heavens and apparently below ground. I'm assuming when the water from underground bubbled up to the surface it cause the hollow left collapsed creating the enormous valleys that became the oceans and such.

7. Religion and existential issues (Ex: Did the ancients look at God and time like we do?)

More or less, the pagan religions traced origins back, not to gods but to elementals, earth, air, fire and water. Paganism has always been atheistic materialist.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[SkyWriting]

You wisely backed off answering how you knew that the early church had no interest in when the creation or flood occurred, because it has been documented that they did.

I can't comment of evidence you have not provided.

 

[SkyWriting]

He's 'projecting" his own beliefs onto the early Church, without foundational reason or support.

Occasionally I will do that to see if anyone has conflicting evidence.

 

[SkyWriting]

I counted up the begets from Adam to Noah, it's 1556 years.

You're not the first: These are final counts leading to creation BC: 5501, 5492, 5426, 5411, 5199, 4192, 4141, 4103, 4079, 4062, 4053, 4051, 4042, 4041, 4021, 4005, 4004, 4001, 3983, 3975, 3974, 3971, 3971, 3970, 3968, 3966, 3964, 3963, 3958, 3949, 3927, 3836

 

[SkyWriting]

Yes, why would the early Church try to rewrite Scripture to prove Scripture was true from the beginning? Skywriting's comment does not make sense, because they did not doubt the Word, and had no need to try to prove the Word was true from the beginning, when their task was to preach the Good News that the promised Messiah had come, had atoned, and our sins are forgiven in Him...

References to a young earth would have been easy.
Ancient mountains are a common theme in scripture.
Starlight comes up a few times.

 

[paloma22]

The scriptures cover all important aspects of faith and Christianity through
40 authors writing from three continents over nearly two thousand years.
If its not thoroughly covered, then it is incidental. God didn't think it
important enough to tell us when Jesus was born. The year of Creation,
that much less.

The flood incidental?? Take away the flood, and you just gutted the NT

…5For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water,6through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water.7But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.… 2 Peter 3:6

For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, 39 and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. Matt 24

0 because they formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water. 1 Peter 3:20

if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly 2 Peter 2:5

They were eating and drinking and marrying and being given in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. Luke 17

http://creation.com/nt-global-flood

 

[mark kennedy]

You're not the first: These are final counts leading to creation BC: 5501, 5492, 5426, 5411, 5199, 4192, 4141, 4103, 4079, 4062, 4053, 4051, 4042, 4041, 4021, 4005, 4004, 4001, 3983, 3975, 3974, 3971, 3971, 3970, 3968, 3966, 3964, 3963, 3958, 3949, 3927, 3836

You forgot to include the source material.

 

[SkyWriting]

You forgot to include the source material.

1 Julius Africanus c. 240 5501
2 George Syncellus c. 810 5492
3 John Jackson 1752 5426
4 Dr William Hales c. 1830 5411
5 Eusebius c. 330 5199
6 Marianus Scotus c. 1070 4192
7 L. Condomanus n/a 4141
8 Thomas Lydiat c. 1600 4103
9 M. Michael Maestlinus c. 1600 4079
10 J. Ricciolus n/a 4062
11 Jacob Salianus c. 1600 4053
12 H. Spondanus c. 1600 4051
13 Martin Anstey 1913 4042
14 W. Lange n/a 4041
15 E. Reinholt n/a 4021
16 J. Cappellus c. 1600 4005
17 E. Greswell 1830 4004
18 E. Faulstich 1986 4001
19 D. Petavius c. 1627 3983
20 Frank Klassen 1975 3975
21 Becke n/a 3974
22 Krentzeim n/a 3971
23 W. Dolen 2003 3971
24 E. Reusnerus n/a 3970
25 J. Claverius n/a 3968
26 C. Longomontanus c. 1600 3966
27 P. Melanchthon c. 1550 3964
28 J. Haynlinus n/a 3963
29 A. Salmeron d. 1585 3958
30 J. Scaliger d. 1609 3949
31 M. Beroaldus c. 1575 3927
32 A. Helwigius c. 1630 3836

https://answersingenesis.org/age-of-the-earth/how-old-is-the-earth/

 

[mark kennedy]

SkyWriting,

Thanks for the link, a very interesting discussion of the dating methods.

Grace and peace,
Mark