Exodus 20:9-11 (Creation)

[Colter]

And just what is that original Gospel? Is there a book that I can read? Is this something you made up?

Jesus didn't preach Paul's gospel, Christ and him crucified. For 3 + years Jesus taught the gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven, salvation through faith, that all men and women of the earth are children of the most high God, that by faith we can realize this ennobling truth.

The original gospel is what the Jews would be teaching today form Jerusalem had they taken up their calling and but believed in Jesus. But tragically they didn't.

Fragments of the original gospel are there in the red letters of Jesus to the extent that he was accurately remembered.

 

[BobRyan]

FYI, AV1611VET does poorly in debates so he has to try to discredit his opponents in some other way (notice his chosen avatar)........and there is no such thing as a "Urantia Cult", there is a Urantia Book, which is a revelation to our world, but we have no leaders who tell us how to think and no error filled doctrines to defend. .

Christianity mushroomed by the end of the first century A.D. - it exploded with many thousands of converts within just 2 weeks of Christ's ascension into heaven.

IN that statement above you cleverly omit the part where Urantia does explicitly endorse evolutionism instead of the Ex 20:11 7 day creation week - given to us in "legal code".

And you keep referring to some "other" gospel of Jesus - that either you 'imagined to yourself' or that you read in Urantia - which you never specify except to use it to condemn the Bible.

In any case - your posts prove repeatedly that destroying acceptance of the Bible is KEY to believing in blind faith evolutionism.

In that point at least - - your argument does have some credibility -- and is instructive for all of us.

 

[BobRyan]

No hope for whom? I'd have to put you in that category, as your posts are completely contra any real sense of biblical scholarship.

You have denied the Virgin Birth - you have denied the miracles of the Bible, bodily ascension of Christ and condemned the Ex 20:11 and Gen 2:1-3 timeline of the Bible as the work of ignorant uninformed man. That is not "scholarship" it is atheism.

But you too demonstrate the same point as Colte - that destroying the Bible is key to belief in evolutionism.

 

[Colter]

The name of it is -- Urantia

That's not true, "Urantia" is the heavenly name of our planet, not a gospel, its hiding in plain site in your Bible, Jesus called it, "The Gospel of The Kingdom of Heaven" but you were born into Christian world with a gospel that had passed through the interpretive minds of Pagan Rome. The entire focus shifted from the original teachings of Jesus and our personal approach to the Father to a religion about Jesus via the old primitive Pagan belief system that there is no remission of sin without the shedding of blood.

The ONLY thing Jesus ever said about the cross is that it would validate his authority to teach the new gospel that he had been teaching the Jews.

"The Jews then said to Him, "What sign do You show us as your authority for doing these things?" "Tear down this temple (his body) and in three days I will raise it up again."

 

[Colter]

Christianity mushroomed by the end of the first century A.D. - it exploded with many thousands of converts within just 2 weeks of Christ's ascension into heaven.

IN that statement above you cleverly omit the part where Urantia does explicitly endorse evolutionism instead of the Ex 20:11 7 day creation week - given to us in "legal code".

And you keep referring to some "other" gospel of Jesus - that either you 'imagined to yourself' or that you read in Urantia - which you never specify except to use it to condemn the Bible.

In any case - your posts prove repeatedly that destroying acceptance of the Bible is KEY to believing in blind faith evolutionism.

In that point at least - - your argument does have some credibility -- and is instructive for all of us.

You talk as if Jesus went around telling the Jews "kill me as a sacrifice for your sins".

Killing Jesus was sin and the Jews became un-chosen as a result of it!


The only people hiding evolution is the YEC crowd who fears the loss of the faithful through the slippery slope theory. Sadly your dishonesty about plain facts has already achieved that!

 

[BobRyan]

Its probably already been said but; who's 6 days is being described here?

For an observer outside the universe, observing the beginning of the universe, it might indeed take 6 days for the universe to be ordered from the disorder.

The observer is Moses in Genesis 1-2:3 with the reference point of earth.

But in Ex 20:11 legal code it is God - and they both claim to see the same thing.

For an observer from within the same creation, however, it might appear that it took 14 billion years or so for the same series of events to take place.

You have to read 4 billion years "into the text" - it is not there at all. And the text of both Genesis 1-2:3 and Ex 20:11 was written for "readers within the same creation" -

And evening and morning are specific to the rotation of this one planet - the Universe does not have night/day cycles.


Injecting a counter-idea into the text to fit an a-priori bias brought to the text - is eisegesis - not exegesis.

Really? My understanding of the Bible is that it is our God who is telling the story, and that it is God who observed the 6 days of creation.

There is no question that God is speaking to humans and humans are on planet earth - and that God was doing something at this location - the location of our solar system when creating the earth. So the time frame communicated is the same thus in Ex 20:11 "six days you shall labor...for in six days the Lord made" --

This is irrefutable - iron clad - locked in - written in stone equivalence for the unit of time.

Where was Moses when God created the heavens and the earth?

If you are asking how it is that Moses could see the 7 day creation week of Gen 1:2-2:4 the answer is vision - Moses was a prophet - and turns out God is able to show prophets past, present and future events as eye-witness to it.

 

[Kenny'sID]

The name of it is -- Urantia

I just wanted Colter to debate this from the start, show us what he's got to debate, if anything, where he got it from, is he just parroting another self proclaimed scholar? Or did he think for himself? Did he get it from a book that's not the bible? I need proof it isn't just speculation as well as why/how it definitely overrides the words of the Bible. I'd also like to get a look at those well honed debating skills, I've evidently missed out on up to now..

 

[BobRyan]

That's not true, "Urantia" is the heavenly name of our planet, not a gospel, its hiding in plain site in your Bible,

Urantia is a book -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Urantia_Book
"The Urantia Book (sometimes called the Urantia Papers or The Fifth Epochal Revelation) is a spiritual and philosophical book that originated in Chicago sometime between 1924 and 1955. The authorship remains a matter of speculation.

The authors introduce the word "Urantia" as the name of the planet Earth and state that their intent is to "present enlarged concepts and advanced truth."[1][2] The book aims to unite religion, science and philosophy,[3] and its enormous amount of material about science is unique among literature claimed to be presented by celestial beings.[4] Among other topics, the book discusses the origin and meaning of life, humankind's place in the universe, the relationship between God and people, and the life of Jesus. It has been described as "a rich and complex moral narrative, equal parts Tolkien and St. Paul."[5]

The Urantia Foundation, a U.S.-based non-profit group, first published The Urantia Book in 1955."

=======================
You have claimed to believe what is written there.

That book promotes a 4.5 billion year evolution as its "genesis" as its 'doctrine on origins' - you don't find that in Ex 20:11 or in Gen 2:1-4.

Your condemnation of the Bible so far - fits perfectly with Urantia doctrine - it does not fit with the Bible.

 

[BornAgainChristian1]

I am a disciple of Jesus and his Father, of his original gospel. I believe the true things in the Bible, not the unicorn or talking donkey, not the vastly exaggerated history of the Hebrew redactors, I don't believe God sent the Israelites to commit genocide while keeping the young virgin girls for themselves. I don't believe both conflicting versions of certain stories. etc.

The writing of humans doesn't equal the writings of God just because it was a long time ago.

If you don't believe what God said in His word because of your limited understanding that is on you. God said HE opened the donkey's mouth. As for the unicorn perhaps you can tell us exactly what it is? It really doesn't matter what you believe in the bible because you have no authority over it. The Israelite's thought as you do and look where they're at today. As for me I believe God is more than capable of preserving His word despite your claims and you limiting His power.

 

[BobRyan]

I just wanted Colter to debate this from the start, show us what he's got to debate, if anything, where he got it from, is he just parroting another self proclaimed scholar? Or did he think for himself? Did he get it from a book that's not the bible? I need proof it isn't just speculation as well as why/how it definitely overrides the words of the Bible. I'd also like to get a look at those well honed debating skills, I've evidently missed out on up to now..

Colte has stated that he is one of the Urantia believers - and has also admitted that Urantia endorses evolutionism and the Bible is not to be trusted or believed in many areas including its Ex 20:11 7 day creation week.

He keeps talking about the "Gospel of Christ" but at the same time condemns all the authors of scripture us ininformed Hebrews who did not really know what they were talking about. Paul and the Gospel writers are all to be condemned any time they differ with Colte - according to him.

 

[BobRyan]

You talk as if Jesus went around telling the Jews "kill me as a sacrifice for your sins".

Killing Jesus was sin and the Jews became un-chosen as a result of it!

Killing Jesus was sin - but Jesus came to earth to die for the sins of the world according to John 6, and Matt 16, and John 18 and 1 John 2:2 "The atoning sacrifice for OUR sins and not for our sins only but for the sins of the whole world"

John 18
"And Judas also, who was betraying Him, was standing with them. 6 So when He said to them, “I am He,” they drew back and fell to the ground. 7 Therefore He again asked them, “Whom do you seek?” And they said, “Jesus the Nazarene.” 8 Jesus answered, “I told you that I am He; so if you seek Me, let these go their way,” 9 to fulfill the word which He spoke, “Of those whom You have given Me I lost not one.” 10 Simon Peter then, having a sword, drew it and struck the high priest’s slave, and cut off his right ear; and the slave’s name was Malchus. 11 So Jesus said to Peter, “Put the sword into the sheath; the cup which the Father has given Me, shall I not drink it?”"

This has already been pointed out to you -- why keep circling back as if this was not already pointed out?

You have been so busy condemning the Bible and accepting Urantia that you simply do not read the Bible details and your various condemnations of it - reveal that detail.

 

[BobRyan]

If you don't believe what God said in His word because of your limited understanding that is on you. God said HE opened the donkey's mouth. As for the unicorn perhaps you can tell us exactly what it is? It really doesn't matter what you believe in the bible because you have no authority over it. The Israelite's thought as you do and look where they're at today. As for me I believe God is more than capable of preserving His word despite your claims and you limiting His power.

Few if any miracles in the Bible are acceptable to atheists or Urantia or Hoghead1.

Darwin, Dawkins, Provine, P.Z. Meyers all point out that they started out as Christians but then faith in evolutionism killed acceptance of the Bible.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Colte has stated that he is one of the Urantia believers - and has also admitted that Urantia endorses evolutionism and the Bible is not to be trusted or believed in many areas including its Ex 20:11 7 day creation week.

He keeps talking about the "Gospel of Christ" but at the same time condemns all the authors of scripture us ininformed Hebrews who did not really know what they were talking about. Paul and the Gospel writers are all to be condemned any time they differ with Colte - according to him.

That's what I'm getting too, but in the end, it does pretty much just boil down to this...

It really doesn't matter what you believe in the bible because you have no authority over it.

 

[BobRyan]

Jesus didn't preach Paul's gospel, Christ and him crucified. For 3 + years Jesus taught the gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven, salvation through faith,

You reject the OT text including Ex 20:11 spoken by God - and here you tell us that you reject the majority of the NT text.

1. CAN you list for us -- all the Bible that you reject?
2. Can you even claim to accept ALL of the text of the 4 Gospels??
3. will you admit that rejecting the Ex 20:11 seven day creation week in legal code - is consistent with "belief" in evolutionism?

I am a disciple of Jesus and his Father, of his original gospel. I believe the true things in the Bible, not the unicorn or talking donkey, not the vastly exaggerated history of the Hebrew redactors, I don't believe God sent the Israelites to commit genocide while keeping the young virgin girls for themselves. I don't believe both conflicting versions of certain stories. etc.

The writing of humans doesn't equal the writings of God just because it was a long time ago.

Xalith said: ↑
So you're saying God would lie to Moses and tell Moses that He did it in 6 days when He (as you believe) didn't?
You do understand what you're implying, right?

A very typical type post for people of your persuasion.
bugkiller

Just as I thought. This isn't a discussion about creation.
You're playing word games.
bugkiller

Bugkiller contributes in opposition as expected.

 

[Kenny'sID]

You talk as if Jesus went around telling the Jews "kill me as a sacrifice for your sins".

I'm baffled. How in the world did you get that from the post you replied too?

 

[BornAgainChristian1]

Few if any miracles in the Bible are acceptable to atheists or Urantia or Hoghead1.

Darwin, Dawkins, Provine, P.Z. Meyers all point out that they started out as Christians but then faith in evolutionism killed acceptance of the Bible.

I believe they were raised in a Christian environment but never surrendered to Christ. The only thing the pagan beliefs like U-rant-ia do is usher in the tribulation at a faster pace.

 

[Colter]

Killing Jesus was sin - but Jesus came to earth to die for the sins of the world according to John 6, and Matt 16, and John 18 and 1 John 2:2 "The atoning sacrifice for OUR sins and not for our sins only but for the sins of the whole world"

John 18
"And Judas also, who was betraying Him, was standing with them. 6 So when He said to them, “I am He,” they drew back and fell to the ground. 7 Therefore He again asked them, “Whom do you seek?” And they said, “Jesus the Nazarene.” 8 Jesus answered, “I told you that I am He; so if you seek Me, let these go their way,” 9 to fulfill the word which He spoke, “Of those whom You have given Me I lost not one.” 10 Simon Peter then, having a sword, drew it and struck the high priest’s slave, and cut off his right ear; and the slave’s name was Malchus. 11 So Jesus said to Peter, “Put the sword into the sheath; the cup which the Father has given Me, shall I not drink it?”"

This has already been pointed out to you -- why keep circling back as if this was not already pointed out?

You have been so busy condemning the Bible and accepting Urantia that you simply do not read the Bible details and your various condemnations of it - reveal that detail.

Well, there ya go, at least you acknowledge that killing Jesus was a sin. Therefore, not the will of God to pave the way for forgiveness. God was already forgiving, which had already been taught by the other prophets that religious people mistreated and killed.

Matthew 21:33-46 reads:

“Hear another parable: There was a certain landowner who planted a vineyard and set a hedge around it, dug a winepress in it and built a tower and he leased it to vinedressers and went into a far country. Now when vintage-time drew near, he sent his servants to the vinedressers, that they might receive its fruit and the vinedressers took his servants, beat one, killed one and stoned another. Again he sent other servants, more than the first and they did likewise to them. Then last of all he sent his son to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ But when the vinedressers saw the son, they said among themselves, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.’ So they took him and cast him out of the vineyard and killed him. “Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers?” They said to Him, “He will destroy those wicked men miserably and lease his vineyard to other vinedressers who will render to him the fruits in their seasons.” Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:

‘The stone which the builders rejected


Indeed the light went West and compromises to the original gospel occurred quite unintentionally.

 

[Colter]

I believe they were raised in a Christian environment but never surrendered to Christ. The only thing the pagan beliefs like U-rant-ia do is usher in the tribulation at a faster pace.

I was born again 31 years ago, I've surrendered to God and to Jesus. I just don't make a false idols out of the Bible books written by fallible holy men.

 

[AV1611VET]

I just know that you claim to be an expert and far more intelligent than all these scientists.

Eyes barn ignit, eyes die ignit.

 

[AV1611VET]

Well, OK then. So tell me, why does the original Hebrew for 2 Sam. 21:19 say that Elhanan killed Goliath of Gath? Do explain.

Where the King James differs from the original Hebrew, the original Hebrew is wrong.

2 Samuel 21:19 And there was again a battle in Gob with the Philistines, where Elhanan the son of Jaareoregim, a Bethlehemite, slew the brother of Goliath the Gittite, the staff of whose spear was like a weaver's beam.