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LDS Which Church Really Saves?

tickingclocker

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Exactly. They are one in purpose. As are Christ and the church.
Circular answers are non-answers. We are not "co-Saviors" with Jesus Christ. In order for that to happen we would have to be equally as divine as He is. We are not, and never will be. We are 100% human for eternity. If you believe you are semi-divine, then the basis for your faith must indeed be something other than Christian.
 
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Ironhold

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tickingclocker

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Guess I'm going to have to keep posting this until someone reads it.
I guess I'm also going to keep posting why is it that it doesn't matter within Christianity if Jesus was married or not, because it remains standing just as firm as ever. Not even so much as a ripple either way. While within mormonism it is CRITICAL that Jesus be married, or it evaporates into the air it came from if He is not (proxy or otherwise). Who loses if Jesus isn't married? Who gains from insisting/imagining He was?

Not one Mormon has answered this question so far. Not even a whiff of an answer. All I got was copy about some guy who actually LEFT the LDS, and published his OPINIONS which were unaccepted by the LDS regarding the wedding at Cana. Because mormonism is built on supposition. Maybe you can accept imagination for fact, but I do not. God is real. Very.

So, where's the beef, Mormons? Can't get hold of your apologists to answer for you yet? Because you don't know the answer. Do you?

Whoosh!!
 
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John Davidson

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Circular answers are non-answers. We are not "co-Saviors" with Jesus Christ. In order for that to happen we would have to be equally as divine as He is. We are not, and never will be. We are 100% human for eternity. If you believe you are semi-divine, then the basis for your faith must indeed be something other than Christian.

Your response has nothing to do with what I stated.

I stated that the church can participate in the saving process.

I never stated anything about being divine.
 
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tickingclocker

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Baptism and The Lords Supper:

The apostle Peter in his epistle stated that baptism does save us.

Jesus also stated that whoever eats his flesh and drinks his blood has eternal life.

Jesus also warned that those who drink and eat unworthily will suffer condemnation. So, if an unbeliever takes communion, knowing they do not believe, are they automatically saved anyway in your view? Does the act of eating and drinking communion save anyone? Your argument falls apart here. It has to stand upon its own in order to be true. It cannot.

1 Corinthians 11:27. Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord irreverently will be guilty of the body of the Lord and of the blood of the Lord.
 
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Super14LDS

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:amen: Because they don't admit to anything anyway. They are trying to 'apprear' more Christian.

I'd rather see what their prophets and Quorum have said. There are a lot of quotes out there, that's where you really find out what they teach.

And if you've ever seen the stuff on the lds.org website. Sometimes they quote one word of a verse and put the Bible, out of context of course, like it agree's with all their crazy doctrine. It's so, so sad.

This is a prime example of this: Look at the footnotes in particular

Mother in Heaven

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches that all human beings, male and female, are beloved spirit children of heavenly parents, a Heavenly Father and a Heavenly Mother. This understanding is rooted in scriptural and prophetic teachings about the nature of God, our relationship to Deity, and the godly potential of men and women.1 The doctrine of a Heavenly Mother is a cherished and distinctive belief among Latter-day Saints.2

While there is no record of a formal revelation to Joseph Smith on this doctrine, some early Latter-day Saint women recalled that he personally taught them about a Mother in Heaven.3 The earliest published references to the doctrine appeared shortly after Joseph Smith’s death in 1844, in documents written by his close associates.4 The most notable expression of the idea is found in a poem by Eliza R. Snow, entitled “My Father in Heaven” and now known as the hymn “O My Father.” This text declares: “In the heav’ns are parents single? / No, the thought makes reason stare; / Truth is reason—truth eternal / Tells me I’ve a mother there.”5

Subsequent Church leaders have affirmed the existence of a Mother in Heaven. In 1909, the First Presidency taught that “all men and women are in the similitude of the universal Father and Mother, and are literally the sons and daughters of Deity.”6 Susa Young Gates, a prominent leader in the Church, wrote in 1920 that Joseph Smith’s visions and teachings revealed the truth that “the divine Mother, [is] side by side with the divine Father.”7 And in “The Family: A Proclamation to the World,” issued in 1995, the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles declared, “Each [person] is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such, each has a divine nature and destiny.”8

Prophets have taught that our heavenly parents work together for the salvation of the human family. “We are part of a divine plan designed by Heavenly Parents who love us,” taught Elder M. Russell Ballard of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles.9 President Harold B. Lee stated, “We forget that we have a Heavenly Father and a Heavenly Mother who are even more concerned, probably, than our earthly father and mother, and that influences from beyond are constantly working to try to help us when we do all we can.”10

Latter-day Saints direct their worship to Heavenly Father, in the name of Christ, and do not pray to Heavenly Mother. In this, they follow the pattern set by Jesus Christ, who taught His disciples to “always pray unto the Father in my name.”11 Latter-day Saints are taught to pray to Heavenly Father, but as President Gordon B. Hinckley said, “The fact that we do not pray to our Mother in Heaven in no way belittles or denigrates her.”12 Indeed, as Elder Rudger Clawson wrote, “We honor woman when we acknowledge Godhood in her eternal Prototype.”13

As with many other truths of the gospel, our present knowledge about a Mother in Heaven is limited. Nevertheless, we have been given sufficient knowledge to appreciate the sacredness of this doctrine and to comprehend the divine pattern established for us as children of heavenly parents. Latter-day Saints believe that this pattern is reflected in Paul’s statement that “neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.”14 Men and women cannot be exalted without each other. Just as we have a Father in Heaven, we have a Mother in Heaven. As Elder Dallin H. Oaks of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles has said, “Our theology begins with heavenly parents. Our highest aspiration is to be like them.”15

Resources
  1. Genesis 1:26–27; Moses 3:4–7; Romans 8:16–17; Psalm 82:6; Doctrine and Covenants 132:19–20.
  2. See “Becoming Like God”; see also Elaine Anderson Cannon, “Mother in Heaven,” in Encyclopedia of Mormonism, ed. Daniel H. Ludlow, 5 vols. (New York: Macmillan, 1992), 2:961. For an extensive survey of these teachings, see David L. Paulsen and Martin Pulido, “‘A Mother There’: A Survey of Historical Teachings about Mother in Heaven,” BYU Studies 50, no. 1 (2011): 70–97.
  3. Zina Diantha Huntington Young recalled that when her mother died in 1839, Joseph Smith consoled her by telling her that in heaven she would see her own mother again and become acquainted with her eternal Mother. (Susa Young Gates, History of the Young Ladies’ Mutual Improvement Association of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints [Salt Lake City: Deseret News, 1911], 15–16.)
  4. See W. W. Phelps, “Come to Me,” in “Poetry, for the Times and Seasons,” Times and Seasons 6 (Jan. 15, 1845): 783.
  5. “My Father in Heaven,” in “Poetry, for the Times and Seasons,” Times and Seasons 6 (Nov. 15, 1845): 1039; “O My Father,” Hymns, no. 292; see also Jill Mulvay Derr, “The Significance of ‘O My Father’ in the Personal Journey of Eliza R. Snow,” BYU Studies 36, no. 1 (1996–97), 84–126.
  6. “The Origin of Man,” Improvement Era 13, no. 1 (Nov. 1909): 78.
  7. “The Vision Beautiful,” Improvement Era 23, no. 6 (Apr. 1920): 542. At this time, Gates was the recording secretary of the Relief Society general presidency.
  8. The Family: A Proclamation to the World,” Ensign or Liahona, Nov. 2010, 129.
  9. M. Russell Ballard, When Thou Art Converted: Continuing Our Search for Happiness (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 2001), 62.
  10. Harold B. Lee, “The Influence and Responsibility of Women,” Relief Society Magazine 51, no. 2 (Feb. 1964): 85.
  11. 3 Nephi 18:19–21; Matthew 6:6–9; John 17:1, 5, 21, 24–25; see also Matthew 4:10; Luke 4:8; and 3 Nephi 13:9; 17:15.
  12. Gordon B. Hinckley, “Daughters of God,” Ensign, Nov. 1991, 100.
  13. “Our Mother in Heaven,” Latter-day Saints’ Millennial Star 72, no. 39 (Sept. 29, 1910): 620. Rudger Clawson was the editor of the periodical and likely author of this editorial.
  14. 1 Corinthians 11:11.
  15. Dallin H. Oaks, “Apostasy and Restoration,” Ensign, May 1995, 84.
The Church acknowledges the contribution of scholars to the historical content presented in this article; their work is used with permission.


. This stuff makes me want to puke.

Which makes more sense?

A) A Father and a Mother.

B) An asexual Father without a Mother.
 
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tickingclocker

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Your response has nothing to do with what I stated.

I stated that the church can participate in the saving process.

I never stated anything about being divine.

Additional circular answers are still non-answers. You stated believers are "co-Saviors" with Jesus Christ. I replied that we can never be "co-Saviors" with Jesus Christ because we are not divine. We are not even "semi-divine", and never will be.

Why can't you see Jesus Christ within His FULL power and authority? What is stopping you? Would you dare to ask the Lord to reveal the problem to you? IF there is no problem, then whats the harm in inquiring? I do it all the time with things people bring to my attention. I don't consider myself above instruction. He always answers and He will never lie to you! Trust Him for the answers, but dare to trust Him with ---- the questions first! Don't you want the truth? Notice I'm not giving you the answer or my opinion. I'm simply suggesting you to go to GOD.
 
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Alithis

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But the question is "which church saves" so I'm assuming some discussion of various denominations will take place.
i think ..at least i expect ..not having read all 200 + replies ,that one general consensus would be that no 'church 'saves and no denomination saves ..only God can save from death and only if the way to obtain that salvation is obeyed ,the exception would be from the rcc who insist only those that are a part of their denomination can be saved and the mormons who say that al these other denominations are discarded in favor of a new set up being that of the latter day saints . both the rcc has no basis in the holy scriptures of the bible on which to found that stance and the mormon church is not christian denomination at all so doesnt count . but also have zero biblical basis upon which to found their false claim. since the lord made an everlasting covenant with david and the children of faith ,being the true spiritual children of abraham ,are reconciled to God in Christ Jesus who was before the creation of all things and by whom all things were created . and that alone established the lie upon which joseph smith built his false church to fool woman into fulfilling his philandering sexual immoralities among other deviant reasons .
 
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BornAgainChristian1

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Yes the bible does support what I said. Read the passages I was referring to.
Then you don't comprehend what you think you read. Read the scripture I posted again and I can post more if you like. But just the same what exactly does baptism and Communion have to do with salvation?
 
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BornAgainChristian1

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That page is a hot mess design-wise.

What am I even supposed to be looking at there?
It exposes the fallacy on your fabricated Book of Abraham. It is in fact a burial ritual.
 
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BornAgainChristian1

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start a thread on the Book of Abraham and we can discuss it
No I don't play that mormon double speak game. I presented proof of the mormon fallacy exposed by a mormon so there is no more discussion. The Rosetta stone was your downfall.
 
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withwonderingawe

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No I don't play that mormon double speak game. I presented proof of the mormon fallacy exposed by a mormon so there is no more discussion. The Rosetta stone was your downfall.

Sorry I didn't read all of your postings, which one. And what would it hurt to start a thread this one is suppose to be about which church saves.
 
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Ironhold

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I guess I'm also going to keep posting why is it that it doesn't matter within Christianity if Jesus was married or not, because it remains standing just as firm as ever. Not even so much as a ripple either way. While within mormonism it is CRITICAL that Jesus be married, or it evaporates into the air it came from if He is not (proxy or otherwise). Who loses if Jesus isn't married? Who gains from insisting/imagining He was?

Not one Mormon has answered this question so far. Not even a whiff of an answer. All I got was copy about some guy who actually LEFT the LDS, and published his OPINIONS which were unaccepted by the LDS regarding the wedding at Cana. Because mormonism is built on supposition. Maybe you can accept imagination for fact, but I do not. God is real. Very.

So, where's the beef, Mormons? Can't get hold of your apologists to answer for you yet? Because you don't know the answer. Do you?

Whoosh!!

Ever figure that maybe, to most Mormons, the issue of whether or not Jesus was married has all the theological importance of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

This is yet another instance where you guys are spending more time on an issue than we are.
 
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BornAgainChristian1

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Sorry I didn't read all of your postings, which one. And what would it hurt to start a thread this one is suppose to be about which church saves.
Because as the bible states salvation is a gift from God not churches or those that deceive.

Ephesians 2:7-91599 Geneva Bible (GNV)
7 That he might show in the ages to come the exceeding riches of his grace through his kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God,

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast himself.
 
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Kenny'sID

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Ever figure that maybe, to most Mormons, the issue of whether or not Jesus was married has all the theological importance of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

This is yet another instance where you guys are spending more time on an issue than we are.

Then I'd suggest Mormons spend no time at all putting blatant lies about Christ/the Bible out there to even be considered as fact. Seriously, what other kind of reaction could you possibly expect? But now there is something wrong with those who oppose the idea and Mormons are innocent victims??

There is nothing wrong with those who oppose this, and there is everything wrong with those who put it out there, so please....just don't, and no one will have to concern themselves with this or anything else that has no biblical basis..
 
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withwonderingawe

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Because as the bible states salvation is a gift from God not churches or those that deceive.

Ephesians 2:7-91599 Geneva Bible (GNV)
7 That he might show in the ages to come the exceeding riches of his grace through his kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God,

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast himself.

I'm going to take this to mean you're afraid to hear anything about the Book of Abraham which might destroy your anti Mormon little world.
 
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