Believe the Bible - bend the Bible - deny the Bible... pick one

[BobRyan]

Fact-check: St. Jerome did not "reject" the Apocrypha. He expressed a personal opinion

Jerome knew the original languages from which he was translating - the RCC rulers at the time where woefully incompetent when it came to the text - and Jerome told them - in writing - in the prologues that the Jewish Apocrypha was NOT in the Canon of scripture.

That some illiterate archbishop had "authority" to force Jerome against his own best judgment - saying more about coercion than it does about the Jewish Apocrypha being canonical.

 

[sculleywr]

oh come on -- I bet you say that to everyone.

Here is how Christ taught us to do it --

Mark 7:6-13 -- is this a case where you see Christ in "error"??

Christ's doctrine on "sola scriptura testing" - resulted in hammering the traditions of the Jewish magisterium of His day and promoting the authority of the Word of God - yes even as found in the Ten Commandments.


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

That is a case of Christ demonstrating the way that the magisterium is hammered "sola scriptura" in the cases where it's traditions and "doctrines of men" are at odds with scripture

That is your interpretation of Christ's words, not the plain sense. Tradition is also commanded, and NO, it does NOT mean the Scripture alone, because it is both spoken and written

 

[BobRyan]

Many Protestants also love and value these books; the King James Version included the Apocrypha and the Anglicans have always read from it.

The argument is not that they are worthless - merely that these Jewish documents are not part of the Hebrew bible - not part of the NT and not accepted by either the Jews or Jerome as part of the Canon. So it is not "just Protestants" that see the problem with these Jewish texts.

 

[sculleywr]

The argument is not that they are worthless - merely that these Jewish documents are not part of the Hebrew bible - not part of the NT and not accepted by either the Jews or Jerome as part of the Canon. So it is not "just Protestants" that see the problem with these Jewish texts.

THe Bible wasn't only written in Hebrew, only the Saducees taught that. Christ quoted the Septuagint and used those documents more than 70 times as though they were Scripture

 

[BobRyan]

No. You are your own pope, No. You are your own pope, because YOU interpret the Bible. ?

oh come on -- I bet you say that to everyone.

Here is how Christ taught us to do it --

Mark 7:6-13 -- is this a case where you see Christ in "error"??

Christ's doctrine on "sola scriptura testing" - resulted in hammering the traditions of the Jewish magisterium of His day and promoting the authority of the Word of God - yes even as found in the Ten Commandments.


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

That is a case of Christ demonstrating the way that the magisterium is hammered "sola scriptura" in the cases where it's traditions and "doctrines of men" are at odds with scripture

So here we have "evidence" -- proof -- example.

That is your interpretation of Christ's words, not the plain sense. n

your response provides no detail at all showing any flaw in my quote or statement other than "you don't like it"

Did you have something objective for us ??

 

[sculleywr]

oh come on -- I bet you say that to everyone.

Here is how Christ taught us to do it --

Mark 7:6-13 -- is this a case where you see Christ in "error"??

Christ's doctrine on "sola scriptura testing" - resulted in hammering the traditions of the Jewish magisterium of His day and promoting the authority of the Word of God - yes even as found in the Ten Commandments.


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

That is a case of Christ demonstrating the way that the magisterium is hammered "sola scriptura" in the cases where it's traditions and "doctrines of men" are at odds with scripture

So here we have "evidence" -- proof -- example.




your response provides no detail at all showing any flaw in my quote or statement other than "you don't like it"

Did you have something objective for us ??

Other than the fact that your argument is that he says never use tradition AT ALL, when Paul very clearly commands Tradition, both spoken and written. Either there is a contradiction in Scripture, or your interpretation is wrong. I'll go with your interpretation being wrong.

 

[BobRyan]

THe Bible wasn't only written in Hebrew, only the Saducees taught that. Christ quoted the Septuagint and used those documents more than 70 times as though they were Scripture

The Hebrew Bible is what was Canon at the time and in Luke 24:27 Christ "Taught from ALL THE SCRIPTURES" -- not the apocrypha. Your argument that the writers of the GREEK Gospel texts indicates that Bible quotes are from the GREEK form of the Hebrew texts in the Hebrew bible - does not get you to the "Jewish Apocrypha canonized" -- because the Gospel writers are writing in Greek to reach non-Jews.

 

[sculleywr]

The Hebrew Bible is what was Canon at the time and in Luke 24:27 Christ "Taught from ALL THE SCRIPTURES" -- not the apocrypha. Your argument that the writer of the GREEK text indicates that he quotes from the GREEK form of the Hebrew texts in the Hebrew bible - does not get you to the "Jewish Apocrypha canonized".

Here, since you have a reading problem:

The canon of Josephus has Baruch in it and yours does not, so obviously, your canon is not the same as the time of Christ. Do not respond to my posts without reading and maintaining the entirety of my posts, you cherry picker

 

[Colter]

The video in the OP demonstrates "observations in nature" that disprove blind-faith evolutionism's claims but such things arising out of chance and undirected process. Even Dawkins admits to the basic point in 'observation' - which is that "
"biology is the study of complicated things that appear to have been designed for a purpose.”
The Blind Watchmaker, 1996, p. 1."

Evidence for design - that you probably still have not 'allowed yourself' to observe. Hence the religious nature of the argument for evolutionism - exposed again.

Not only this - but the religious argument that "amoebas will sure-enough turn into horses given sufficiently talented amoebas and a sufficiently long and talented period of time filled with improbable just-so stories" is not remotely an "observation in nature" it is 'wishful thinking' and "gross story telling about what single-celled animals are imagined to do over time".

What is more - we have 50,000 generations of bacteria proving that after that much "evolution" they REMAIN - bacteria.

50,000 generations of humans would cover more than 2,000,000 years! And stories say that humans evolved --came into being-- supposedly in less than 1 TENTH of that time!! Yet bacteria DO NOT when it comes to REAL OBSERVATIONS in nature - turn into single-celled eukaryotes over TEN TIMES that number of generations!! Rather "observations in nature" SHOW that they REMAIN "bacteria".

As I said before the - best text book you have for the religion of evolutionism - is Urantia-- not the Bible. This is irrefutable.

You must not read my post. I keep saying that God is the source of life that evolved. God designed life! Evolution has been fostered. Within it we can see purposive potential.

Mutations occurred from lines that have remained the same.

 

[tickingclocker]

He contradicts himself constantly. He also acts like his Church gave us the scriptures...

You're only giving him an audience for his church and a showcase for "his knowledge" when we respond to his taunting. Love him like Jesus does, by praying for our friend, Bob, here. I'm sure he wouldn't refuse a few heartfelt prayers for a greater presence of the Lord in his life, would he? He'd be a fool if so!!

Although, he may not like what God's greater presence may bring his way.... because God doesn't like it when people taunt others while using Him as their vehicle to do so.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

sculleywr said: ↑
The question is notwhether or not you have an earthly source telling you what Scripture means.

More bible please - less making-stuff-up.

1 John 2
As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.

Oh my goodness.

Are you trying to say the SDAs are the only ones having His anointing?

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/interview-of-sda-pastor-septic-tank-ministry.7407073/

I conducted this interview myself after seeing this bus parked close to where I work in Seattle. He seemed like a nice man who is very serious about the Pope stealing the Sabbath, etc. My next interview with him will be on the 1844 subject.

Enjoy.

Viddler.com - Prophecy Bus - Uploaded by pythons

Video review of the exterior of the Bus

Yeah, a "nice guy" that is a total nutter! When you see someone driving around in a bus with "Pope's number = 666", how can you take that person seriously?

The guy is a loon. Why do we even have a thread discussing whackos like this? You might as well have a thread discussing the religious beliefs of the crazy cat lady from 'The Simpsons'.

 

[tickingclocker]

No way you can convince me your Church is the one Paul founded.

Extraneous, please, don't do what they try to get you to do, like walk away from people who need you. I LIKE many of your posts!! They are very insightful!! It's easy to become frustrated by people who think they know God better than you do. But all they really have is head knowledge and head games. Show them YOU have what is important----to GOD! LOVE, despite their ways. The LOVE of God you show to others will never be wasted to HIM. It alone is what shows you know Jesus Christ. Not if you know how many angels can on the head of a pin, or even if you have perfect doctrinal positions! Jesus doesn't care how much we know. He cares how much we love!

Keep repeating 1 Corinthians 13 to yourself if you must, until you settle in your heart it is love that never fails to please your God, not knowledge---to help focus on what is truly important in eternity. Some people will never get that fact. There is little we can do about it except pray for them to. (I would have emailed you privately, but couldn't because of your settings).

Sorry, Bob, to have taken over your platform for a minute. I'm sure you will understand, buddy.

 

[tickingclocker]

I'm the one causing you to choose to divide yourself from the Church? This is new. I never told you to leave. I refuse to change my dogma, not because I want division. Division is unavoidable when a person refuses to give up the Truth. And if hundreds of years of torture, martyrdom, and various other forms of persecution didn't cause the Orthodox Church to apostatize, neither will a man creating division of himself.

You assert the authority of your personal interpretation of Scripture. I assert the authority of the Faith which was delivered once to the Apostles for every person from then until now, not delivered to you after everyone else got it wrong. Once, for all the saints. The Church is STILL the Pillar and Ground of the Truth.

Do you two realize you are both playing into Bob's hands? He loves stuff like this. How do I know? He's remaining silent while you two duke it out. Isn't he? Think about it.

 

[BobRyan]

The question is notwhether or not you have an earthly source telling you what Scripture means.

More bible please - less making-stuff-up.

1 John 2
As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.

Oh my goodness.
Are you trying to say the SDAs are the only ones having His anointing?

I suppose there is some funny sort of way where that comment applies to 1 John 2 -- just not sure how.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Indeed it was Gods will for the creator Son to experience all that his created children are to experience in life, death is the final act. So he lived for us, and he laid down his life for us.

You keep repeating the inaccurate statement that evolutionism is a blind faith. It's not blind, it's based on the observations of living and diseased creatures on an old planet. But we haven't found ANYTHING that supports a one time, YEC event.

The video in the OP demonstrates "observations in nature" that disprove blind-faith evolutionism's claims but such things arising out of chance and undirected process. Even Dawkins admits to the basic point in 'observation' - which is that "
"biology is the study of complicated things that appear to have been designed for a purpose.”
The Blind Watchmaker, 1996, p. 1."

Evidence for design - that you probably still have not 'allowed yourself' to observe. Hence the religious nature of the argument for evolutionism - exposed again.

Not only this - but the religious argument that "amoebas will sure-enough turn into horses given sufficiently talented amoebas and a sufficiently long and talented period of time filled with improbable just-so stories" is not remotely an "observation in nature" it is 'wishful thinking' and "gross story telling about what single-celled animals are imagined to do over time".

What is more - we have 50,000 generations of bacteria proving that after that much "evolution" they REMAIN - bacteria.

50,000 generations of humans would cover more than 2,000,000 years! And stories say that humans evolved --came into being-- supposedly in less than 1 TENTH of that time!! Yet bacteria DO NOT when it comes to REAL OBSERVATIONS in nature - turn into single-celled eukaryotes over TEN TIMES that number of generations!! Rather "observations in nature" SHOW that they REMAIN "bacteria".

As I said before the - best text book you have for the religion of evolutionism - is Urantia-- not the Bible.

This is irrefutable.

You must not read my post. I keep saying that God is the source of life that evolved. God designed life! Evolution has been fostered. Within it we can see purposive potential.

Mutations occurred from lines that have remained the same.

So your view of the Urantia type of God is that he "helps evolution out" when it gets into trouble and has no science "observation in nature" to sustain its claims?

By contrast in the first two posts - we see that the God of the Bible creates all of the distinct "kinds" of life on earth in a literal 7 day creation week.

Two very different doctrines on origins. One from the Bible - the other found in Urantia.

Instead of the Bible saying "in the beginning God created amoeba then over 3.5 billion years whenever evolution needed a boost he would give it a helpful-miracle to keep it going" --

The Bible actually says "in legal code" --

Ex 20:8-11 "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy - SIX days you shall labor... For in SIX days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy."

Gen 2:1-3
Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made

No such language found in even ONE of evolutionism's 'texts' to state that particular "belief".

 

[BobRyan]

Do you two realize you are both playing into Bob's hands? He loves stuff like this. How do I know? He's remaining silent while you two duke it out. Isn't he? Think about it.

Do you have a post here that is NOT "ad hominem"??

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

As I said before the - best text book you have for the religion of evolutionism - is Urantia-- not the Bible.

This is irrefutable.

Interesting. Never heard of it, and I will probably not read it.

http://www.urantia.org/

The Urantia Book, first published by Urantia Foundation in 1955, presents us with the origin, history, and destiny of humanity. It answers questions about God, life in the inhabited universe, the history and future of this world, and it includes an uplifting narrative of the life and teachings of Jesus.

The Urantia Book portrays our relationship with God the Father. All human beings are the sons and daughters of a loving God and therefore brothers and sisters in the family of God. The book provides new spiritual truth for modern men and women and a pathway to a personal relationship with God.

http://www.urantia.org/urantia-book-standardized/paper-60-urantia-during-early-land-life-era

Paper 60

Urantia During the Early Land-Life Era
60:0.1 (685.1) THE era of exclusive marine life has ended. Land elevation, cooling crust and cooling oceans, sea restriction and consequent deepening, together with a great increase of land in northern latitudes, all conspired greatly to change the world’s climate in all regions far removed from the equatorial zone.

60:0.2 (685.2) The closing epochs of the preceding era were indeed the age of frogs, but these ancestors of the land vertebrates were no longer dominant, having survived in greatly reduced numbers. Very few types outlived the rigorous trials of the preceding period of biologic tribulation. Even the spore-bearing plants were nearly extinct.



.

 

[tickingclocker]

Do you have a post here that is NOT "ad hominem"??

Bob, you love that phrase, don't you? Myself, I love the phrase, "Nobody cares how much you know,
until they know how much you care".

 

[BobRyan]

Bob, you love that phrase, don't you? Myself, I love the phrase, "Nobody cares how much you know,
until they know how much you care".

I love the phrase "abide by the rules of this forum" one of which is - no ad hominem.

An Matt 7 - Christ says "by their fruits you shall know them" -- ad hominem is condemned not only by this board - but by scripture.

 

[bugkiller]

.

bugkiller