LDS Lucifer and Jesus are not brothers!

[ToBeLoved]

mmksparbud says:
Jesus can be one with God in a real sense as He is God, His is a divine nature---ours is not and never will be. Divinity is not imparted, it is or isn't.

John 17:21-22 is very specific, not JS specific, but John the Beloved specific. Re-read it carefully, you missed the most important part.
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

So John is telling us, (not JS, but John the Beloved apostle of Jesus and recorded in the Bible, not the BOM, but the Bible) that we can be one with God and Jesus as they are one with each other.

Do you want to be one with God and Jesus, as They are one?

We are already one with the Father and Jesus. We have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit which is God Himself in us. The same Holy Spirit that the apostles recieved in the upper room at Pentecost.

We do not wait to be one with Christ, we are already one with Christ. In Christainity at least.

 

[ToBeLoved]

My error. Is there a way you can cancel a response you start and then decide not to respond? How do I cancel a response before I post reply?

If you go back to a post that is yours, there is an 'edit' choice at the bottom.

 

[Super14LDS]

The part in bold is not true. I've looked up that Hebrew word. That is not how it is defined.

Where did you look it up? Greek word "Mia" has different meaning depending on which concordance is used per this thread http://www.christianforums.com/threads/mia-concordance-question-lds-wives.7941314/

 

[mmksparbud]

I didn't miss the most important part t all. It is still being one with all, as I plainly stated. One in mind as they are. They are united in more than mind--but in what they are. Much as you covet being a god--we are not divine, they are. Jesus said

Joh 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.


That we all may be one----were all the disciples one in body and mind? No---they were one in accordance to the word of God--not in DNA. In this world we can be one--"That the world may believe thou hast sent me."

 

[mmksparbud]

So please explain what they meant. By gaining knowledge of good and evil they could become as one of us?

They had no knowledge of it, they had not been exposed to it. Now they knew how to lie, evade, hide from Him--God knew the end result of sin they did not. They only knew good until then.

 

[fatboys]

They had no knowledge of it, they had not been exposed to it. Now they knew how to lie, evade, hide from Him--God knew the end result of sin they did not. They only knew good until then.

God and Jesus lie?

 

[ToBeLoved]

God and Jesus lie?

Nothing to see here but more of the same.....

 

[fatboys]

Nothing to see here but more of the same.....

You running out of ammo and are throwing rocks now?

 

[ToBeLoved]

You running out of ammo and are throwing rocks now?

Naw. No rocks. It's not worth the time. Just passing through.

 

[mmksparbud]

God and Jesus lie?

Now that is about the dumbest thing so far--what is the purpose of such an idiotic question??

Joh 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

There is no lie, it is plain--that we ALL may be one (all believers are one with each other and with God in thought and purpose)for the purpose of the world knowing that God has sent Jesus---what lie is that except the one JS gives in saying we will be God???

 

[fatboys]

Now that is about the dumbest thing so far--what is the purpose of such an idiotic question??

Joh 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

There is no lie, it is plain--that we ALL may be one (all believers are one with each other and with God in thought and purpose)for the purpose of the world knowing that God has sent Jesus---what lie is that except the one JS gives in saying we will be God???

The bible says that we can be as one with God as God the father and Jesus are one. Since you believe that God and Jesus is the same species does that mean that our spirits after death become part of Gods spirit? That as our spirits are absorbed by the Father to become one with Him does his spirit grow larger? Just curious

 

[Ironhold]

Nothing to see here but more of the same.....

No, Fatboys is legitimately asking for clarification of just what the post in question meant.

 

[mmksparbud]

The bible says that we can be as one with God as God the father and Jesus are one. Since you believe that God and Jesus is the same species does that mean that our spirits after death become part of Gods spirit? That as our spirits are absorbed by the Father to become one with Him does his spirit grow larger? Just curious

You guys are getting ridiculous---Since you believe we are the same as God, and He is flesh and bone and we are one with Him then does He get bigger?? We can all be one great big blob together?

The breathe of life is given by God and goes back to Him when we die.

(Ecc 12:7 KJV) Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

pneuma: wind, spirit
Original Word: πνεῦμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: pneuma
Phonetic Spelling: (pnyoo'-mah)
Short Definition: wind, breath, spirit
Definition: wind, breath, spirit.
Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 4151: πνεῦμα

πνεῦμα, πνεύματος, τό (πνέω), Greek writings from Aeschylus and Herodotus down; Hebrew רוּחַ, Latinspiritus; i. e.:
1. a movement of air (gentle) blast;
a. of the wind: ἀνέμων πνεύματα, Herodotus 7, 16, 1; Pausanias, 5, 25; hence, the wind itself, John 3:8; plural Hebrews 1:7 (1 Kings 18:45; 1 Kings 19:11; Job 1:19; Psalm 103:4 (), etc.; often in Greek writings).

 

[Super14LDS]

Curios what you think

Palms 82:6 "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High."

Means.

The part in bold is not true. I've looked up that Hebrew word. That is not how it is defined.

Cool, as god is prolly the most correct meaning of the word "god" in the cited scripture. The other remaining choice is "judge", but then christians don't believe in mortal judges either. So the scripture stands as written "Ye are gods".

The term "christian" was used to mock the early believers of Christ; Saint is the correct terminology for a true believer as a member of Christ's true church.

This Latter Day Saint in no way wishes to associate myself with the term christian; on that we can agree!

 

[Ironhold]

You guys are getting ridiculous---Since you believe we are the same as God, and He is flesh and bone and we are one with Him then does He get bigger??

The LDS belief is that the unity Jesus is referring to in the passage is a unity of purpose, not a physical unity. Thus, we see this passage as contradicting the traditional three-in-one concept of the Trinity because the implications are just as you described if it meant physical unity instead.


edit - before anyone gets upset, I'm not meaning any offense. I'm simply trying to explain how, in this situation, our varying interpretations are combining to cause a fair amount of confusion, especially given how each side sees the other side.

 

[mmksparbud]

The LDS belief is that the unity Jesus is referring to in the passage is a unity of purpose, not a physical unity. Thus, we see this passage as contradicting the traditional three-in-one concept of the Trinity because the implications are just as you described if it meant physical unity instead.


edit - before anyone gets upset, I'm not meaning any offense. I'm simply trying to explain how, in this situation, our varying interpretations are combining to cause a fair amount of confusion, especially given how each side sees the other side.

So if God and Jesus are like a horse and rider, then we can be the same. But I don't quite think that is the case. John tells us we can be the same kind of one as they are one. What does that mean? Does that mean horse and rider? NO. We can be one with God in a real sense, just like Jesus is one with God. And if that is true, divinity will necessarily be imparted, and we will be partakers of the divine nature (2 Peter 1:4).

The contradiction seems to be yours---you are claiming we can be God, we can be of the same divine nature as God and Jesus. You are saying that being one does not mean one in thought but the same as they are---make up your mind as to what you mean.

 

[Super14LDS]

All can be one in thought spirit and purpose while we remain physically seperate akin to a couple wed in holy matrimony.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Cool, as god is prolly the most correct meaning of the word "god" in the cited scripture. The other remaining choice is "judge", but then christians don't believe in mortal judges either. So the scripture stands as written "Ye are gods".

The term "christian" was used to mock the early believers of Christ; Saint is the correct terminology for a true believer as a member of Christ's true church.

This Latter Day Saint in no way wishes to associate myself with the term christian; on that we can agree!

Different words were used in the Hebrew and Greek for a reason.

Three words in the Greek can be translated as one in some translations. The same for Hebrew.

Please do not tell us what our Bible means unless you know how to find out and do find out. That is very insulting.

 

[Peter1000]

I didn't miss the most important part t all. It is still being one with all, as I plainly stated. One in mind as they are. They are united in more than mind--but in what they are. Much as you covet being a god--we are not divine, they are. Jesus said

Joh 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.


That we all may be one----were all the disciples one in body and mind? No---they were one in accordance to the word of God--not in DNA. In this world we can be one--"That the world may believe thou hast sent me."

Can God make us divine?

Can God change our human DNA to God DNA?

 

[Peter1000]

Different words were used in the Hebrew and Greek for a reason.

Three words in the Greek can be translated as one in some translations. The same for Hebrew.

Please do not tell us what our Bible means unless you know how to find out and do find out. That is very insulting.

It is not your bible.