LDS Lucifer and Jesus are not brothers!

[mmksparbud]

A mule is the offspring of a male donkey (jack) and a female horse (mare).[1]Horses and donkeys are different species, with different numbers of chromosomes. Of the two F1 hybrids between these two species, a mule is easier to obtain than a hinny, which is the offspring of a female donkey (jenny) and a male horse (stallion).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mule

A mule is neither a Donkey or a Horse; never heard of a hinny; learn something new everyday

They are not actually different species----they are of the same species, equine. You can cross a donkey with a zebra--you can't cross a donkey with a goat. You can cross a tiger with a lion--they're called ligers and tigons (and like hinnies and mules, depends on who is the female). They are absolutely huge (ligers)--too big to hunt actually, and have to be raised by humans or they would die in the wild. but a lion and a tiger are both felines. A lion crossed with a white tiger, the result was an absolutely beautiful white lion with a white mane, but the black stripes. You can cross all manner of dogs, all manner of cats, but you can't cross a dog with a cat. Somethings will make cross breeding a little difficult---like a Chihuahua with a Great Dane, one of them will need a ladder---and the Dane had better be the female or the pups would kill the Chihuahua before they were even fully developed. Most grizzlies only mate with other grizzlies, however, they have found bears that they, through DNA, identified as a cross between a polar bear and a grizzly---but both are bears. Angels are not human, but they can "appear" as human. Appear is not the same as being.

 

[ToBeLoved]

They are not actually different species----they are of the same species, equine. You can cross a donkey with a zebra--you can't cross a donkey with a goat. You can cross a tiger with a lion--they're called ligers and tigons (and like hinnies and mules, depends on who is the female). They are absolutely huge (ligers)--too big to hunt actually, and have to be raised by humans or they would die in the wild. but a lion and a tiger are both felines. A lion crossed with a white tiger, the result was an absolutely beautiful white lion with a white mane, but the black stripes. You can cross all manner of dogs, all manner of cats, but you can't cross a dog with a cat. Somethings will make cross breeding a little difficult---like a Chihuahua with a Great Dane, one of them will need a ladder---and the Dane had better be the female or the pups would kill the Chihuahua before they were even fully developed. Most grizzlies only mate with other grizzlies, however, they have found bears that they, through DNA, identified as a cross between a polar bear and a grizzly---but both are bears. Angels are not human, but they can "appear" as human. Appear is not the same as being.

What is so wierd is they have different DNA strands. One is 62 strands of DNA, the other is 64 strands of DNA and the output has 63 strands of DNA. I don't think God intended this. He said every kind with its own kind.

 

[mmksparbud]

Yah--some of those don't happen in the wild, and when they do, they die off naturally or a whole new breed is developed. In the wild a mother will often kill, or more likely, abandon a cub that is sick or different, knowing it will not survive, or they are often sterile. But they are still within the same family. An Asian elephant might be able to cross with an African elephant if within the same territory---which would never happen naturally! African elephants have the huge ears. Dogs and wolfs, naturally can mate--so can foxes and dogs--those can be quite pretty, a fox/Pomeranian=gorgeous. They are still within the same kind--however, a dog and an alligator ain't happening!

 

[Super14LDS]

What is so wierd is they have different DNA strands. One is 62 strands of DNA, the other is 64 strands of DNA and the output has 63 strands of DNA. I don't think God intended this. He said every kind with its own kind.

Good point, supports Palms 82:6 "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High."

 

[mmksparbud]

Good point, supports Palms 82:6 "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High."

How doe thst verse support this???????

What is so wierd is they have different DNA strands. One is 62 strands of DNA, the other is 64 strands of DNA and the output has 63 strands of DNA. I don't think God intended this. He said every kind with its own kind.

I see no connection??? Not to mention the fact you are misreading that verse anyway.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Good point, supports Palms 82:6 "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High."

No it doesn't? How in the world do you come up with that?

 

[ToBeLoved]

I see no connection??? Not to mention the fact you are misreading that verse anyway.

I had responded about what the wikipedia link to mules said on there. Nothing about a Bible verse. Maybe you misunderstood me.

 

[mmksparbud]

O don't understand the connection???

 

[Super14LDS]

No it doesn't? How in the world do you come up with that?

Curios what you think

Palms 82:6 "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High."

Means.

 

[mmksparbud]

Here is the context

1 -- A Psalm of Asaph. God hath stood in the company of God, In the midst God doth judge.

2 Till when do ye judge perversely? And the face of the wicked lift up? Selah.

3 Judge ye the weak and fatherless, The afflicted and the poor declare righteous.

4 Let the weak and needy escape, From the hand of the wicked deliver them.

5 They knew not, nor do they understand, In darkness they walk habitually, Moved are all the foundations of earth.

6 I -- I have said, 'Gods ye are, And sons of the Most High -- all of you,

7 But as man ye die, and as one of the heads ye fall,

8 Rise, O God, judge the earth, For Thou hast inheritance among all the nations!


A core belief of Judaism is that there is only one God.
The Hebrew is:

אֲנִי-אָמַרְתִּי, אֱלֹהִים אַתֶּם; וּבְנֵי עֶלְיוֹן כֻּלְּכֶם.‏

The word אֱלֹהִים can mean "God". It can also mean Judge, Idolatrous god/power (note the distinction between God and gods), Important Person.

In this context, others translate it as "godlike beings", "angels", "angelic creatures". But definitely not "Gods".
the translation אֱלֹהִים as 'Power' or 'Powerful Ones.' That covers the different possible meanings of G-d, false gods, powerful people or angels. Those who are either powerful or are falsely thought to be powerful in this world.

In a Kabbalistic sense when G-d is referred to as אֱלֹהִים that represents G-d acting within nature, while Y-H-V-H represents G-d transcending nature.

Psalm 82 poetically plays on the different meanings of אֱלֹהִים to exhort judges to judge properly and support the weak and poor rather than favoring the rich and powerful.

non-literal translation.

G-d 'stands' in the midst of judges and will judge them.

How long will you (bad) judges favor the wicked? Give justice to the weak, the orphan and the poor. Rescue the needy and powerless from the hands of the wicked.

They (corrupt judges) do not know nor do they understand that they walk in darkness.

I thought all judges were G-dly and powerful sons of the most High (i.e. good and righteous) But like all men, even powerful princes you will die.

Please G-d judge the world, you control all the nations.

http://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/9590/what-does-psalm-82-mean

 

[Super14LDS]

Here is the context

1 -- A Psalm of Asaph. God hath stood in the company of God, In the midst God doth judge.

2 Till when do ye judge perversely? And the face of the wicked lift up? Selah.

3 Judge ye the weak and fatherless, The afflicted and the poor declare righteous.

4 Let the weak and needy escape, From the hand of the wicked deliver them.

5 They knew not, nor do they understand, In darkness they walk habitually, Moved are all the foundations of earth.

6 I -- I have said, 'Gods ye are, And sons of the Most High -- all of you,

7 But as man ye die, and as one of the heads ye fall,

8 Rise, O God, judge the earth, For Thou hast inheritance among all the nations!


A core belief of Judaism is that there is only one God.
The Hebrew is:

אֲנִי-אָמַרְתִּי, אֱלֹהִים אַתֶּם; וּבְנֵי עֶלְיוֹן כֻּלְּכֶם.‏

The word אֱלֹהִים can mean "God". It can also mean Judge, Idolatrous god/power (note the distinction between God and gods), Important Person.

In this context, others translate it as "godlike beings", "angels", "angelic creatures". But definitely not "Gods".
the translation אֱלֹהִים as 'Power' or 'Powerful Ones.' That covers the different possible meanings of G-d, false gods, powerful people or angels. Those who are either powerful or are falsely thought to be powerful in this world.

In a Kabbalistic sense when G-d is referred to as אֱלֹהִים that represents G-d acting within nature, while Y-H-V-H represents G-d transcending nature.

Psalm 82 poetically plays on the different meanings of אֱלֹהִים to exhort judges to judge properly and support the weak and poor rather than favoring the rich and powerful.

non-literal translation.

G-d 'stands' in the midst of judges and will judge them.

How long will you (bad) judges favor the wicked? Give justice to the weak, the orphan and the poor. Rescue the needy and powerless from the hands of the wicked.

They (corrupt judges) do not know nor do they understand that they walk in darkness.

I thought all judges were G-dly and powerful sons of the most High (i.e. good and righteous) But like all men, even powerful princes you will die.

Please G-d judge the world, you control all the nations.

http://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/9590/what-does-psalm-82-mean

Yes, context needs to be considered.

Men are indeed godlike beings, who are children of the most High who as this article concluded may be filled with the fullness of God.

... The Bible also tells us that we can be “one” in the very same sense that Christ and His Father are “one.” Now, if God the Father is God, and Jesus Christ is God, and we can be one with them, then we have the potential to be a god ourselves. A God has glory and is perfect. Glory and perfection are two attributes that belong to God. Christ, when He prayed to His Father, prayed for this very thing, that we might receive glory, and be perfect “even as we.”

Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; that they all may be one; as thou, father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.12

To what extent is this glory that we have the opportunity to obtain? The Bible is quite clear that it is the fullness of God that we might have: “And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.“13 But does this “fulness” really have anything to do with the very nature of being a god? It most certainly does. ...

http://www.fairmormon.org/perspectives/publications/do-we-have-the-potential-to-become-like-god

Appended below is a bit more from the cited article which goes into great detail.

Jesus Christ Himself said we were gods: “Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken.“6 Christ pointed out that Psalm 82:6 was not a mistake or a fluke, for He added the phrase “and the scripture cannot be broken” right after it, stressing that it was accurate and that its meaning could not be argued away.

Per your cited article: The word אֱלֹהִים can mean "God". It can also mean Judge, Idolatrous god/power (note the distinction between God and gods), Important Person.

God as meaning matches best with "children of the most High".

 

[mmksparbud]

I have no doubt you will give it the meaning you want to give it. We can be one with God, today, right now we can be one with God and the Holy Spirit; However, we are more one in essence as a rider and his horse are one when riding together. They are one in action and thought but can not be one physically. Jesus can be one with God in a real sense as He is God, His is a divine nature---ours is not and never will be. Divinity is not imparted, it is or isn't. God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are of the same essence---we are not the natural children of God as been gone over and over but the carnal inclination of wanting power and the glory of God to be something we are is in your souls as it was in Lucifer when he said he would be God. It is not to be one with God that you all seem to want--but to be God. Lucifer was kicked out of heaven for it, and anyone who has that mind set, won't be allowed in. You see, if I am wrong, well, I'll still be with God after the resurrection. God is not going to allow a 2nd repetition of the whole "Isa_14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High" fight with Lucifer and those who want that will not be allowed into His presence ever again. When the lust for power gets into the soul---it seems to stay there.

yes we are children of the Most High God----and that has ben pointed repeatedly also---we are adopted--we are adopted because we do not share the same essence and are not His natural children--He only has ONE of those. Even in our glorified bodies, we will still not be as Jesus and God are one. Not something that you guys will humble your spirits enough to comprehend because you do not value the bible as the word of God as you do the BOM. That is the choice you have made. You can not accept an "It is written."

 

[ToBeLoved]

Per your cited article: The word אֱלֹהִים can mean "God". It can also mean Judge, Idolatrous god/power (note the distinction between God and gods), Important Person.

God as meaning matches best with "children of the most High".

The part in bold is not true. I've looked up that Hebrew word. That is not how it is defined.

 

[ToBeLoved]

..

 

[mmksparbud]

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:


The verse reads AS one of us. Not IS ONE OF US. MAJOR DIFFERENCE, esp. when you take in the rest of the verse---TO KNOW GOOD AND EVIL. It was only in that respect that they had become AS them. As usual, your need for being God outweighs what is actually written and blinds you to the truth.

 

[Ironhold]

You cannot link to your sources. Please REMOVE THEM and the URL's.

There's a difference between "I find this website informative and you might too" and "I'm going to violate a legal settlement by showing you how to locate material that was posted in violation of stated copyright laws".

99% of what people do online when they share links is the former. That's perfectly acceptable, provided that the website on the other end isn't hosting material that itself was put up illegally. And, in fact, apologetics websites and the like don't particularly care if people share links as long as they're credited as the source.

 

[ToBeLoved]

There's a difference between "I find this website informative and you might too" and "I'm going to violate a legal settlement by showing you how to locate material that was posted in violation of stated copyright laws".

99% of what people do online when they share links is the former. That's perfectly acceptable, provided that the website on the other end isn't hosting material that itself was put up illegally. And, in fact, apologetics websites and the like don't particularly care if people share links as long as they're credited as the source.

It's CF rules, not internet rules.

CF can do anything they want on their forum.

 

[fatboys]

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:


The verse reads AS one of us. Not IS ONE OF US. MAJOR DIFFERENCE, esp. when you take in the rest of the verse---TO KNOW GOOD AND EVIL. It was only in that respect that they had become AS them. As usual, your need for being God outweighs what is actually written and blinds you to the truth.

So please explain what they meant. By gaining knowledge of good and evil they could become as one of us?

 

[Peter1000]

I have no doubt you will give it the meaning you want to give it. We can be one with God, today, right now we can be one with God and the Holy Spirit; However, we are more one in essence as a rider and his horse are one when riding together. They are one in action and thought but can not be one physically. Jesus can be one with God in a real sense as He is God, His is a divine nature---ours is not and never will be. Divinity is not imparted, it is or isn't. God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are of the same essence---we are not the natural children of God as been gone over and over but the carnal inclination of wanting power and the glory of God to be something we are is in your souls as it was in Lucifer when he said he would be God. It is not to be one with God that you all seem to want--but to be God. Lucifer was kicked out of heaven for it, and anyone who has that mind set, won't be allowed in. You see, if I am wrong, well, I'll still be with God after the resurrection. God is not going to allow a 2nd repetition of the whole "Isa_14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High" fight with Lucifer and those who want that will not be allowed into His presence ever again. When the lust for power gets into the soul---it seems to stay there.

yes we are children of the Most High God----and that has ben pointed repeatedly also---we are adopted--we are adopted because we do not share the same essence and are not His natural children--He only has ONE of those. Even in our glorified bodies, we will still not be as Jesus and God are one. Not something that you guys will humble your spirits enough to comprehend because you do not value the bible as the word of God as you do the BOM. That is the choice you have made. You can not accept an "It is written."

mmksparbud says:
Jesus can be one with God in a real sense as He is God, His is a divine nature---ours is not and never will be. Divinity is not imparted, it is or isn't.

John 17:21-22 is very specific, not JS specific, but John the Beloved specific. Re-read it carefully, you missed the most important part.
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

So John is telling us, (not JS, but John the Beloved apostle of Jesus and recorded in the Bible, not the BOM, but the Bible) that we can be one with God and Jesus as they are one with each other.

So if God and Jesus are like a horse and rider, then we can be the same. But I don't quite think that is the case. John tells us we can be the same kind of one as they are one. What does that mean? Does that mean horse and rider? NO. We can be one with God in a real sense, just like Jesus is one with God. And if that is true, divinity will necessarily be imparted, and we will be partakers of the divine nature (2 Peter 1:4).

You continually throw into the conversation the term, "lust for power". There will be no "lust for power" if we are one with God and Jesus. There will only be godly attributes as we partake of the "divine nature". "Lust for power" does not exist in the "divine nature", so we would not participate in that kind of indulgence. To prove this, search the scriptures for all the qualities of God and Jesus and if you find that one of the qualities is "lust for power", then we will have that too, but I think you will not find it among Their qualities. Therefore, I would conclude, we will not have it either. Do your research though, for surely you think being one with God and Jesus brings on a "lust for power". Let me know what you find.

Do you want to be one with God and Jesus, as They are one?

 

[Peter1000]

My error. Is there a way you can cancel a response you start and then decide not to respond? How do I cancel a response before I post reply?