For all eternity - "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before God to Worship"

[Sophrosyne]

Although what you say is quite true, they prefer to harp constantly about the ten, keeping the 11th out of sight.

They've pushed the diet laws plenty here but it isn't their favorite because one tactic they used to use was fear of contaminated pork claiming that trichinosis was this really scary thing that is in MOST pork products. After me posting constant FDA studies that show pork is SAFER than beef or chicken when it comes to contamination and that trichinosis is almost non existent in store bought meats their main weapon fizzled.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Actually they have 11 commandments at least as they (attempt to) keep dietary laws which really makes it very hard to defend against using the 10 as their standard while rejecting most other commandments but 1 or so.

Dietary laws are not salvational per se, but prudent and wise. It goes with keeping your body temple as undefiled as possible. There wouldn't be an argument if we were talking about smoking.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Indeed, one does wonder why you perpetually dodge such an easy question as when you yourself intend to obey God's commandments as given in the Old Testament. Apparently your answer is - never in a million years.

Did Jesus keep the Commandments as given in the OT?

Seems to me, if He could through the power given Him in the Spirit, then we are able as well with the same power promised to us.

 

[bugkiller]

Although what you say is quite true, they prefer to harp constantly about the ten, keeping the 11th out of sight.

It really boils down to one. They use the others to try and get people to say the follow the 10 Cs. When they do they promptly condemn a liar.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Dietary laws are not salvational per se, but prudent and wise. It goes with keeping your body temple as undefiled as possible. There wouldn't be an argument if we were talking about smoking.

Do you grow all your own or buy non imitation fertilized food? If you buy food in the grocery store you're buying chemical laden food that poisons you and the soil it was grown on. So in my mind there is no difference. If you want to know I currently grow at least some of my food, including wheat. I use only compost. I haven't used any poisons (-ides) for years. I have no pest problems. My neighbors do though.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Did Jesus keep the Commandments as given in the OT?

Seems to me, if He could through the power given Him in the Spirit, then we are able as well with the same power promised to us.

Name anyone who has.

bugkiller

 

[twob4me]

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[BobRyan]

Excuse me? "My own Church" does NOT believe that the commandment to keep the sixth day is intended for the Church.

As you and I both admitted - I never said anything at all about your church and 'the sixth day' -- (In two posts that apparently have vanished).

But as we all know - on page 1 ... your own Pope John Paul II is quoted in his "Dies Domini" encyclical on the 7th day -
Feb 3, 2016 #2

 

[BobRyan]

Bob , still waiting for your reply.

"From year to year" the Bible says they observed the Lev 23 annual feast days.
"from Sabbath to Sabbath" in the New Earth "ALL MANKIND" will come before God to worship - Is 66:23

 

[BobRyan]

ok then... 3 simple questions.

For those inclined to be at war with God's Ten Commandments --3 simple questions...

Christ argues this point about the "WORD of GOD" the "Commandments of God" .

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the Commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Christ said "it is a big deal" in Mark 7


1. Question 1 -- In your view - is Christ in Error in Mark 7??

2. Question 2: Eph 6:2 "What unit of LAW" is being upheld by Paul in Eph 5:2 where the 5th commandment "is the FIRST commandment with a PROMISE"?... easy answer.

3. Question 3: Heb 8:6-10 NEW COVENANT "I will write My LAW on their heart and mind" Jer 31:31-33 ---> what LAW?

And Just as much on Sunday as the Sabbath

Until you read the actual Bible -

Is 66:23 "From new moon to new moon AND FROM Sabbath to Sabbath shall all MANKIND come before Me to worship"

TWO cycles - a weekly one AND a monthly one. So your speculation does not survive the details in the text.

Nor the fact that the Bible say 'From year to year" the annual feasts are celebrated - which also do NOT mean "every day continually" but rather it refers to a "yearly cycle".

 

[Meowzltov]

As you and I both admitted - I never said anything at all about your church and 'the sixth day' -- (In two posts that apparently have vanished).

But as we all know - on page 1 ... your own Pope John Paul II is quoted in his "Dies Domini" encyclical on the 7th day -
Feb 3, 2016 #2

I don't see anything in Dies Domini that says we should worship on the 7th day.

 

[Meowzltov]

"From year to year" the Bible says they observed the Lev 23 annual feast days.
"from Sabbath to Sabbath" in the New Earth "ALL MANKIND" will come before God to worship - Is 66:23

STILL waiting for your reply.

Bob, you have to actually address what I write, not go off on a tangent. God back and read my post VERY CAREFULLY and try again.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Sabbath blessings to all forum members!

 

[Llewelyn]

Is 66:23 "From new moon to new moon AND FROM Sabbath to Sabbath shall all MANKIND come before Me to worship"





Which would be total nonsense as "from 1:00pm to 4:00pm AND FROM 2:00pm to 3:00pm" -- by carefully glossing over the detail "from new moon to new moon AND FROM Sabbath to Sabbath" as clearly identifying TWO cycles - not one constant ... you get to the never-seen-in-the-Bible idea that "REMAIN" is to be wrenched into "from new moon to new moon AND FROM Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind COME BEFORE Me to worship". -- ( as if the Bible ever used such a back flip.)

Even your own fellow pro-sunday scholars admit to this being "two cycles" and not "one idea of -- REMAIN"






Of course they have to admit that this is "two cycles" and not "one idea of REMAIN all the time before the LORD" -- because the Bible already uses that form.

...

1. It shows that OT authors and readers had the concept of 7th day Sabbath applicable to "all mankind" in Is 66:23.
2. Reading the text we have admit that this Sabbath observance will be binding for all mankind for all of eternity even after the cross.
3. Is 56 - (same book, same author) is affirming gentiles who keep the Sabbath - as honoring God.
4. It is only when the second coming happens and the New Earth and New Heavens are established in Rev 21 that all the wicked have perished and so "All mankind" will be worshiping God, all will be Christians, all will be keeping the Sabbath not just the "Remnant" or "Israel" -- the "FEW" of Matt 7 keeping it on earth as Christians are by far the minority in this world. And of course at the second coming the man-denominations of Christianity become one united group.
5. And of course while the "new moon" is a physical "event" that takes place on a cycle - God's Holy "Sabbath" is a "practice" a "convention" and "observance" not a physical cycle in the heavens - so to worship "from Sabbath to Sabbath" would require that "convention" to still exist.

This is true no matter if one is pro-Sunday or not.

I think all sides can see this point.

This is going to be an interesting concept in a world of continuous day with neither moon nor night.

 

[BobRyan]

This is going to be an interesting concept in a world of continuous day with neither moon nor night.

No text says that. Rev 21 says that the city has no "need" of the sun or the moon - but does not say that the planet is without sun and moon.

Which means - God did know exactly what He was saying in Is 66:23 when He predicted a weekly and monthly cycle for the new heavens and new earth.

 

[BobRyan]

Bob , still waiting for your reply.

"From year to year" the Bible says they observed the Lev 23 annual feast days.
"from Sabbath to Sabbath" in the New Earth "ALL MANKIND" will come before God to worship - Is 66:23

Still waiting for your reply.

STILL waiting for your reply.

you have to actually address what I wrote --Mar 12, 2016 #36 , not go off on a tangent. Go back and read my post VERY CAREFULLY and try again.

 

[BobRyan]

]Is 66:23 "From new moon to new moon AND FROM Sabbath to Sabbath shall all MANKIND come before Me to worship"

1. It shows that OT authors and readers had the concept of 7th day Sabbath applicable to "all mankind" in Is 66:23.
2. Reading the text we have admit that this Sabbath observance will be binding for all mankind for all of eternity even after the cross.
3. Is 56 - (same book, same author) is affirming gentiles who keep the Sabbath - as honoring God.
4. It is only when the second coming happens and the New Earth and New Heavens are established in Rev 21 that all the wicked have perished and so "All mankind" will be worshiping God, all will be Christians, all will be keeping the Sabbath not just the "Remnant" or "Israel" -- the "FEW" of Matt 7 keeping it on earth as Christians are by far the minority in this world. And of course at the second coming the man-denominations of Christianity become one united group.
5. And of course while the "new moon" is a physical "event" that takes place on a cycle - God's Holy "Sabbath" is a "practice" a "convention" and "observance" not a physical cycle in the heavens - so to worship "from Sabbath to Sabbath" would require that "convention" to still exist.

This is true no matter if one is pro-Sunday or not.

I think all sides can see this point.

Open Heart said: ↑
The verse refers to after the resurrection, in the world to come (which some call heaven). In that world, there will be no more working by the sweat of our brow to feed and house ourselves. Every day will be a day of rest, and we will all worship the Lord. This is not possible in the hear and now.
Bob , still waiting for your reply.

You merely "quote yourself" to argue that the text is not talking about -- what it says. You invent the idea of no work no occupation -- no farming, nothing like Adam and Eve in Paradise - you invent an entirely fictional scenario to counter against the text saying that in fact we will have both weekly and monthly cycles of worship, where all mankind is to keep the Sabbath - the weekly Sabbath known to Isaiah and his readers.

<staff edit>

In which case - these points "remain".

1. It shows that OT authors and readers had the concept of 7th day Sabbath applicable to "all mankind" in Is 66:23.
2. Reading the text we have admit that this Sabbath observance will be binding for all mankind for all of eternity even after the cross.
3. Is 56 - (same book, same author) is affirming gentiles who keep the Sabbath - as honoring God.
4. It is only when the second coming happens and the New Earth and New Heavens are established in Rev 21 that all the wicked have perished and so "All mankind" will be worshiping God, all will be Christians, all will be keeping the Sabbath not just the "Remnant" or "Israel" -- the "FEW" of Matt 7 keeping it on earth as Christians are by far the minority in this world. And of course at the second coming the man-denominations of Christianity become one united group.
5. And of course while the "new moon" is a physical "event" that takes place on a cycle - God's Holy "Sabbath" is a "practice" a "convention" and "observance" not a physical cycle in the heavens - so to worship "from Sabbath to Sabbath" would require that "convention" to still exist.

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
As you and I both admitted - I never said anything at all about your church and 'the sixth day' -- (In two posts that apparently have vanished).

But as we all know - on page 1 ... your own Pope John Paul II is quoted in his "Dies Domini" encyclical on the 7th day -
Feb 3, 2016 #2

I don't see anything in Dies Domini that says we should worship on the 7th day.

I don't see anything in the post you claim to be responding to - where I ever claim that the Pope is anything other than a pro-sunday source on this subject. I merely point out that your "6th day" comment was in error - which you later admitted.

 

[BobRyan]

More specifically - the RCC popes and CCC seem to go along with this idea --

They affirm that "7 point list" from pro-sunday sources. In fact the majority of pro-sunday scholarship accepts the fact that the TEN Commandments still apply to the saints.

=========================================================
Dies Domini is a papal encyclical on the subject of Sunday and how it is regarded by tradition to be a holy day rooted in the 10 commandments as a continuation of the 4th commandment

(numbered 3 by Roman Catholics Dies Domini, John Paul II, 5 July 1998 - Apostolic Letter - link

========================== Dies Domini begin
Dies Domini pt 11
"the rest of the Sabbath..discloses something of the nuptial shape of the relationship which God wants to establish with the creature made in his image, by calling that creature to enter a pact of love".

Dies Domini pt 13 -
[FONT=&quot]"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!! In setting this commandment within the context of the basic structure of ethics, Israel and then the church declare that they consider it not just a matter of community religious discipline but a defining and indelible expression of our relationship to God, announced and expounded by biblical revelations.


Dies Domini pt 11 "if the first page of the book of Genesis presents God's work as an example for man, the same is true of God's rest - on the seventh day God finished his work which he had done therefore God blessed the seventh day and made it holy...it is a gaze which God casts upon all things, but in a special way upon man, the crown
of creation. It is a gaze which already discloses something of the nuptial shape of the relationship God wants to establish with the creature made in his own image, by calling that creature to enter a pact of love."

=============================== Dies Domini ... end quote

The quote I gave from Dies Domini is fully consistent with the examples I gave from the Catholic Catechism - at least that is what we appear to have in the details of those quotes.

No one has an example of Dies Domini or the CCC objecting to the 7 points listed in the OP. No not one.

I offer a perfect example to test the points -- in quotes from the CCC.

I say again that 6 of the 7 points appear here.

Secondary source for the Catechism: This is a link -Catholic Catechism Section Two Ten Comm

[FONT=&quot]2056 The word "Decalogue" means literally "ten words."11 God revealed these "ten words" to his people on the holy mountain. They were written "with the finger of God,"12 unlike the other commandments written by Moses.13 They are pre-eminently the words of God. They are handed on to us in the books of Exodus 14 and Deuteronomy.15 Beginning with the Old Testament, the sacred books refer to the "ten words,"16 but it is in the New Covenant in Jesus Christ that their full meaning will be revealed.

2072 Since they express man's fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations.They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. the Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart.

2063.... the words of the Decalogue remain likewise for us Christians. Far from being abolished, they have received amplification and development from the fact of the coming of the Lord in the flesh.26

2068 The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christiansand that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 The Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments."29


[FONT=&quot](Application in James 2)
2069 The Decalogue forms a coherent whole. Each "word" refers to each of the others and to all of them; they reciprocally condition one another. the two tables shed light on one another; they form an organic unity. To transgress one commandment is to infringe all the others.30 One cannot honor another person without blessing God his Creator. One cannot adore God without loving all men, his creatures. the Decalogue brings man's religious and social life into unity

 

[BobRyan]

What 7 point list? -- This one.

as we have been reminded time after time about the 7 points you see here --

First a summary of the pro-Sunday scholarship statements affirming the TEN Commandments.

• Here is an example of claims made by the pro-Sunday sources - and 6 of the 7 are actually correct according to the Bible!.

• Yes that is right - 6 of the 7 are actually common ground between Sabbath keeping and Sunday keeping Christians.

1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3
2. That all mankind was obligated by the TEN commandments in the OT and to this very day.
3. That the seventh day as the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day of the week from Gen 2:1-3 until NT times - including at the cross.
4. That the Ten Commandments are the moral Law of God
5. That the moral law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant
6. that the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God are in no way opposed to grace and the Gospel.
7. That the Sabbath commandment can rightly be BENT by man-made-tradition to point to week-day-1 after the cross.

I agree with 6 out of 7 as listed above - and yet many who post against God's TEN commandments object to all of the points listed above. And sometimes they will even go on to complain that so many of the points above are in agreement with my position and opposed to the war-against-the-Ten-Commandments position