For all eternity - "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before God to Worship"

[BobRyan]

Is 66:23 "From new moon to new moon AND FROM Sabbath to Sabbath shall all MANKIND come before Me to worship"

BobRyan said: ↑
Perpetual on TWO cycles - the weekly AND the monthly cycle - as stated 'in the text'

Perpetual as in all the time. Sabbath to Sabbath means all the days in between just as 1;00 to 4:00 means all the time in between.

Which would be total nonsense as "from 1:00pm to 4:00pm AND FROM 2:00pm to 3:00pm" -- by carefully glossing over the detail "from new moon to new moon AND FROM Sabbath to Sabbath" as clearly identifying TWO cycles - not one constant ... you get to the never-seen-in-the-Bible idea that "REMAIN" is to be wrenched into "from new moon to new moon AND FROM Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind COME BEFORE Me to worship". -- ( as if the Bible ever used such a back flip.)

Even your own fellow pro-sunday scholars admit to this being "two cycles" and not "one idea of -- REMAIN"

Isaiah 66:23

Jamieson Fausset Brown

23. Literally, "As often as the new moon (shall be) in its own new moon," that is, every month (Zec 14:16).
Sabbath--which is therefore perpetually obligatory on earth.
all flesh-- (Ps 65:2; 72:11).
before me--at Jerusalem (Jer 3:16, 17).

http://www.studylight.org/com/jfb/view.cgi?book=isa&chapter=066

Matthew Henry Isaiah 66:23

6. That the public worship of God in religious assemblies shall be carefully and constantly attended upon by all that are thus brought as an offering to the Lord, Isaiah 66:23. This is described in expressions suited to the Old-Testament dispensation, to show that though the ceremonial law should be abolished, and the temple service should come to an end, yet God should be still as regularly, constantly, and acceptably worshipped as ever. Heretofore only Jews went up to appear before God, and they were bound to attend only three times a year, and the males only; but now all flesh, Gentiles as well as Jews, women as well as men, shall come and worship before God, in his presence, though not in his temple at Jerusalem, but in religious assemblies dispersed all the world over, which shall be to them as the tabernacle of meeting was to the Jews.

God will in them record his name, and, though but two or three come together, he will be among them, will meet them, and bless them. And they shall have the benefit of these holy convocations frequently, every new moon and every Sabbath, not, as formerly, at the three annual feasts only.

Of course they have to admit that this is "two cycles" and not "one idea of REMAIN all the time before the LORD" -- because the Bible already uses that form.

...

1. It shows that OT authors and readers had the concept of 7th day Sabbath applicable to "all mankind" in Is 66:23.
2. Reading the text we have admit that this Sabbath observance will be binding for all mankind for all of eternity even after the cross.
3. Is 56 - (same book, same author) is affirming gentiles who keep the Sabbath - as honoring God.
4. It is only when the second coming happens and the New Earth and New Heavens are established in Rev 21 that all the wicked have perished and so "All mankind" will be worshiping God, all will be Christians, all will be keeping the Sabbath not just the "Remnant" or "Israel" -- the "FEW" of Matt 7 keeping it on earth as Christians are by far the minority in this world. And of course at the second coming the man-denominations of Christianity become one united group.
5. And of course while the "new moon" is a physical "event" that takes place on a cycle - God's Holy "Sabbath" is a "practice" a "convention" and "observance" not a physical cycle in the heavens - so to worship "from Sabbath to Sabbath" would require that "convention" to still exist.

This is true no matter if one is pro-Sunday or not.

I think all sides can see this point.

 

[BobRyan]

So then that also brings up Isaiah 56
==========================================

It never says the son of the foreigner keeps the Shabbat.

Until you read the text -and note that "everyone" includes the "son of the foreigner" in vs 6.


Isaiah 56
Blessed is the man who does this,
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”


3 Do not let the son of the foreigner
Who has joined himself to the Lord
Speak, saying,
“The Lord has utterly separated me from His people”;
Nor let the eunuch say,
“Here I am, a dry tree.”
4 For thus says the Lord:
“To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths,
And choose what pleases Me,
And hold fast My covenant,
5 Even to them I will give in My house
And within My walls a place and a name
Better than that of sons and daughters;
I will give them an everlasting name
That shall not be cut off.

6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—
7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain,
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices
Will be accepted on My altar;
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”


"There REMAINS therefore a SABBATH rest for the people of God" Heb 4.
"Worship HIM who MADE the heavens and the earth the seas and the springs of water" Rev 14:7
"EVERY Sabbath" they were in the synagogue preaching the Gospel to BOTH gentiles and Jews - Acts 18:1-5.
"EVERY Sabbath" scripture is read in the synagogues and this solves the problem of Acts 15 for gentiles.
"The Sabbath was made for MANKIND" Mark 2:27 -- turns out --- that includes gentiles.

EVEN Dies Domini insists that the Sabbath commandment as with ALL the TEN commandments are for ALL MANKIND and "not just jews"

Your position opposed to both the Bible and your own Pope John Paul II - is a bit 'extreme' for a Catholic don't you think??

Dies Domini pt 11
"the rest of the Sabbath..discloses something of the nuptial shape of the relationship which God wants to establish with the creature made in his image, by calling that creature to enter a pact of love".

Dies Domini pt 13 -
"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!! In setting this commandment within the context of the basic structure of ethics, Israel and then the church declare that they consider it not just a matter of community religious discipline but a defining and indelible expression of our relationship to God, announced and expounded by biblical revelations.

Dies Domini pt 11 "if the first page of the book of Genesis presents God's work as an example for man, the same is true of God's rest - on the seventh day God finished his work which he had done therefore God blessed the seventh day and made it holy...it is a gaze which God casts upon all things, but in a special way upon man, the crown
of creation. It is a gaze which already discloses something of the nuptial shape of the relationship God wants to establish with the creature made in his own image, by calling that creature to enter a pact of love."

===========================================================

This verse warns about alienating the convert.

If we downsize and gloss-over almost every detail listed - we could get to such a reductionist generalization.

 

[bugkiller]

Is 66:23 "From new moon to new moon AND FROM Sabbath to Sabbath shall all MANKIND come before Me to worship"

Bob it just blows me away how you think the verse is about the Sabbath or even new moons.

bugkiller

 

[Sophrosyne]

Bob it just blows me away how you think the verse is about the Sabbath or even new moons.

bugkiller

It is like they don't acknowledge that MOST of the worship is BETWEEN the Sabbaths (Mon,Tues,Wed,Thurs,Fri). One could say worship is from Monday to Monday and it would mean the same thing.

 

[BobRyan]

Is 66:23 "From new moon to new moon AND FROM Sabbath to Sabbath shall all MANKIND come before Me to worship"

Bob it just blows me away how you think the verse is about the Sabbath or even new moons.
bugkiller

I find that sequence very satisfying. Thanks.

Even D.L. Moody is more open to some Bible details that others on this board - who place themselves at war with God's Ten Commandments - refuse to accept.

D.L. Moody writes in favor of God's TEN Commandments as do many other Bible scholars and pastors - even pro-sunday ones.


http://www.fbinstitute.com/moody/The_TenCommandments_Text.html

BY THE
DWIGHT L. MOODY
The Ten Commandments:
Exodus 20:2-17
.
The Fourth Commandment


Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.​

[FONT=&quot]THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place.
"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27)
It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes;

------------------------------------------

 

[BobRyan]

It is like they don't acknowledge that MOST of the worship is BETWEEN the Sabbaths (Mon,Tues,Wed,Thurs,Fri). One could say worship is from Monday to Monday and it would mean the same thing.

- in the actual Bible there are TWO cycles in Is 66:23 - -not "one daily".

Is 66:23 "From new moon to new moon AND FROM Sabbath to Sabbath shall all MANKIND come before Me to worship"

 

[Sophrosyne]

- in the actual Bible there are TWO cycles in Is 66:23 - -not "one daily".

Is 66:23 "From new moon to new moon AND FROM Sabbath to Sabbath shall all MANKIND come before Me to worship"

still more worship going on NOT On the Sabbath than ON the Sabbath.

 

[Sophrosyne]

still more worship going on NOT On the Sabbath than ON the Sabbath.

And Just as much on Sunday as the Sabbath

 

[BobRyan]

And Just as much on Sunday as the Sabbath

The text does not say "from Sunday to Sunday".

It says "From Sabbath to Sabbath".

When you 'quote you' to insert "and just as much on Sunday" you have only "you" as your source.

Of course they have to admit that this is "two cycles" and not "one idea of REMAIN all the time before the LORD" -- because the Bible already uses that form.


Zechariah 14:16 : 'And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came up against Jerusalem, shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.'

1. Exodus 13:10
   Therefore, you shall keep this ordinance at its appointed time from year to year.
2. Judges 21:19
   So they said, “Behold, there is a feast of the LORD from year to year in Shiloh, which is on the north side of Bethel, on the east side of the highway that goes up from Bethel to Shechem, and on the south side of Lebonah.”
3. 1 Samuel 2:19
   And his mother would make him a little robe and bring it to him from year to year when she would come up with her husband to offer the yearly sacrifice.

of course all of this is just "facts we see in the actual Bible" so may not have a lot of traction here with some folks, but others will be informed by it

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The text does not say "from Sunday to Sunday".

It says "From Sabbath to Sabbath".

When you 'quote you' to insert "and just as much on Sunday" you have only "you" as your source.

It also doesn't say from Saturday to Saturday either....

.

 

[bugkiller]

Is 66:23 "From new moon to new moon AND FROM Sabbath to Sabbath shall all MANKIND come before Me to worship"



The text is talking about - all eternity in the future.

1. The text says the new moon event -- and the Sabbath event will both continue - for all eternity.

No it doesn't.

2. The text says that all mankind (not just Jews) will come before the LORD to Worship on those TWO cycles.

No it doesn't.

3. What the "text says" matters to those of use going by the Bible.

I agree.

4. The text points to the future as having both the Sabbath and the new moon.

Where? Have you ever read v 24?

5. It does not say "we wont have Sabbath or new moons in the New Earth" as some may have re-imagined the text.

It also doesn't imply we will. The verse 23 is only talking about time.

bugkiller

 

[Bob S]

No it doesn't.No it doesn't.I agree.Where? Have you ever read v 24?It also doesn't imply we will. The verse 23 is only talking about time.

bugkiller

Is on the same theme in chapter 65 says that old men would live to be over 100 and if they die before that.... .

Here I thought we would have eternal life. And to have to go out and walk among the dead bodies every Sabbath wouldn't be a delight to me. If that were true I would definitely skip Sabbath.

 

[YHWH's Lion]

Is 66:23 "From new moon to new moon AND FROM Sabbath to Sabbath shall all MANKIND come before Me to worship"



The text is talking about - all eternity in the future.

1. The text says the new moon event -- and the Sabbath event will both continue - for all eternity.
2. The text says that all mankind (not just Jews) will come before the LORD to Worship on those TWO cycles.
3. What the "text says" matters to those of use going by the Bible.
4. The text points to the future as having both the Sabbath and the new moon.
5. It does not say "we wont have Sabbath or new moons in the New Earth" as some may have re-imagined the text.

in Christ,

Bob


Yes it does.

yes it does.



And Is 14 speaks of the death of Lucifer. So also Ezek 28.

What is your point?

Is 9 predicts the coming Messiah. It happened.
Is 66:23 predicts events in the New Heavens and New Earth. It will happen

the point is that you can't cherry pick portions of the prophecy, the portions that line up with what your denomination has indoctrinated you with, and ignore portions that do not fit into your "idea" how the future will be after the return of Christ. We need to try to harmonize both the old testament descriptions of how things will be and the new testament descriptions. If we do this, the view of the future that begins to appear looks nothing as preached by SDA.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Is 66:23 "From new moon to new moon AND FROM Sabbath to Sabbath shall all MANKIND come before Me to worship"

The text is talking about - all eternity in the future.

1. The text says the new moon event -- and the Sabbath event will both continue - for all eternity.
2. The text says that all mankind (not just Jews) will come before the LORD to Worship on those TWO cycles.

in Christ,

Bob

Where will all the 7 billion + people in the world come to worship Him? I don't think there is enough room in Jerusalem to hold all of them......tho I could be wrong.



.

 

[bugkiller]

Is 66:23 "From new moon to new moon AND FROM Sabbath to Sabbath shall all MANKIND come before Me to worship"



The text is talking about - all eternity in the future.

1. The text says the new moon event -- and the Sabbath event will both continue - for all eternity.
2. The text says that all mankind (not just Jews) will come before the LORD to Worship on those TWO cycles.
3. What the "text says" matters to those of use going by the Bible.
4. The text points to the future as having both the Sabbath and the new moon.
5. It does not say "we wont have Sabbath or new moons in the New Earth" as some may have re-imagined the text.

in Christ,

Bob


Yes it does.

Where?

yes it does.

Where?

And Is 14 speaks of the death of Lucifer. So also Ezek 28.

What does this have to do with my statement or what is found in Isa 66:23?

What is your point?

Is 9 predicts the coming Messiah. It happened.[/qquote]And so... Is your purpose to derail me on another subject?

Is 66:23 predicts events in the New Heavens and New Earth. It will happen

Not that I can find. Would you kindly show me?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Is on the same theme in chapter 65 says that old men would live to be over 100 and if they die before that.... .

Here I thought we would have eternal life. And to have to go out and walk among the dead bodies every Sabbath wouldn't be a delight to me. If that were true I would definitely skip Sabbath.

Aamazing! You want to include another chapter for context and refuse the next verse in the same chapter.

bugkiller

 

[Bob S]

Is 66:23 "From new moon to new moon AND FROM Sabbath to Sabbath shall all MANKIND come before Me to worship"



The text is talking about - all eternity in the future.

1. The text says the new moon event -- and the Sabbath event will both continue - for all eternity.
2. The text says that all mankind (not just Jews) will come before the LORD to Worship on those TWO cycles.
3. What the "text says" matters to those of use going by the Bible.
4. The text points to the future as having both the Sabbath and the new moon.
5. It does not say "we wont have Sabbath or new moons in the New Earth" as some may have re-imagined the text.

Below you ask what my point is Well, I notice you never go on and finish Isaiah's thought in chapter 66 nor will you comment on it when we bring it up. I brought up Is 65 where man would die around 100 and your answer
"What is your point? " Do you not know that man will live eternally? I am sure your church has taught you that there will be no marriage thus no babies ? Is it reasonable to think after worship we will go out and walk among dead bodies? Think about it friend, Isaiah had a reason to write all that, but he was not describing the Earth made new. If we only live to be 100 where he was talking about then it sure was not Heaven. Aren't we supposed to reign with Christ for a thousand years? How can that happen if we die at 100?

If I were you I would pick some verses that would make more sense than Is 66.
in Christ,

What is your point?

See above.

Is 9 predicts the coming Messiah. It happened.
Is 66:23 predicts events in the New Heavens and New Earth. It will happen

Well, you won't see it all happen. For instance since we will spend 1000 years in Heaven before the new earth and the city of Jerusalem comes down, you won't be living to experience it. You will get to build a house and will die in it. If you are so adamant about Is 66 and the Sabbath then be adamant about all the other things Isaih wrote that seem to be diametrically opposed to what we know about Heaven.

Please do not come back with the old stuff that I do not believe scripture. I will admit I do not understand all scripture, but God has given me a brain to sort things out and I surely do not believe we will be limited to once a week worship with God nor do I believe we will be subject to walking around dead bodies.

 

[BobRyan]

Below you ask what my point is Well, I notice you never go on and finish Isaiah's thought in chapter 66

There are vast portions in the book of Isaiah that I have not quoted. I freely admit that.

I brought up Is 65 where man would die around 100

And I brought up the prediction of the Messiah in Isaiah 9.

A great many topics in the book of Isaiah -- as it turns out.

Still this thread is about Is 66:23 and for all eternity "from Sabbath to Sabbath ALL MANKind" will come before God to worship.

"What is your point? " Do you not know that man will live eternally?

You seem to be getting lost in some of the rabbit trails -- back to Is 66:23 and all eternity in the New Earth.

 

[Bob S]

There are vast portions in the book of Isaiah that I have not quoted. I freely admit that.



And I brought up the prediction of the Messiah in Isaiah 9.

A great many topics in the book of Isaiah -- as it turns out.

Still this thread is about Is 66:23 and for all eternity "from Sabbath to Sabbath ALL MANKind" will come before God to worship.



You seem to be getting lost in some of the rabbit trails -- back to Is 66:23 and all eternity in the New Earth.

You cherry pick part of a thought and expect us not to respond the way we have? I am not allowed to express the way I would like, but you can guess. Tell you what, I will open a new thread on the last part of Is 66 and you will get to stay on the subject as you demand we do on this thread How does that ring with you?

 

[BobRyan]

You cherry pick part of a thought and expect us not to respond the way we have? I am not allowed to express the way I would like, but you can guess.

You have free will as do we all.

I choose to stick with the Bible - and on this thread the Is 66;23 details are being discussed - even though we could go to Isaiah 9 and talk about the first coming of Christ "instead".

Is 14 and Ezek 28 both show how the subject discussed in a single chapter can be Lucifer - AND ALSO some other verses in that same chapter can be about a contemporary heathen king in Isaiah's day.

Details matter.

in Christ,

Bob