Extraneous
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Evolution is a sign now? I see another sign, one that you dont see. I try to help you see it, but you do not.
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Why do Christians have trouble with accepting Evolution?
- Thread starter Senod2
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Evolution is a sign now? I see another sign, one that you dont see. I try to help you see it, but you do not.
You have no evidence that the creature in Job was even from this planet, let along a dinosaur. And I merely mentioned the "rings of Saturn" omission in the Bible to point out that there are gaps in the Biblical science statements. Your accusations against science apply to the Bible. I didn't mean to actually accuse the Bible of having any problems; I mean to accuse your ACCUSATIONS of having problems.
Let me repeat the same thing again. It is IMPOSSIBLE to have every creature in a fossil, there HAS TO BE gaps in the fossil record because of that simple fact and that is NOT A DISPROOF OF EVOLUTION.
There is not really any problem with the biblical statement about the size of the temple bath and the value of PI . . . it s merely that this is an instance in which we COULD HAVE SEEN an accurate bit of knowledge inserted beyond the ability of men of the time to demonstrate and LO we DON'T SEE IT there.
It is impossible to think of any natural way at all for the universe to come into existence that would be incompatible with Isaiah's statement that God stretched out the heavens; therefore it is not a prediction of any particular scientific statement about how the universe came into existence.
You can't go from the Job 26 passage to Newton's understanding. Its merely that Job 26 is vague enough to encompass what Newton uncovered.
Its the same thing when the Bible talks about creating all life "after their kind". You can't figure out that all life follows a set of relationships in a great "tree of life" pattern from that statement . . . but it is vague enough to allow one to assert it is a prediction of evolution, with patterns being established and then followed in descendant species .
That's how you should be speaking of evolution and the Bible! Point out it the understanding of the nested hierarchy of all life is foreshadowed in that statement!
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Extraneous
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Mathew 7:4 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:
‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;
15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them.’
‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;
15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them.’
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Did I say Noah was a fictional character? I don't recall that. Also, about picking and choosing. That may well be necessary with Scripture and certainly is something you yourself are doing. Do you follow all the OT laws? Do you follow all or any of the dietary rules? Do you believe that slavery should be legal and therefore allow you to sell your daughter into slavery? It does not follow that if one thing is off or questioned, everything is off. That is an illogical assumption and a very poor exegetical method.
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It doesn't question the nature of God, EastCoast, it questions the picture or model of God that you have in your head, which may or may not be accurate. Christians who have trouble with evolution are generally those who believe that God is wholly immutable. God does not change and so neither does the universe. However, this immutable God came into Christianity via the incorporation of Hellenic metaphysics. Si it is up for grabs whether it is valid or not. Also, it doesn't fit well with the biblical model of god, which does state that God can and does change, in about 100 passages.
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The problem I have with your post, Extraneous, is that it dost not at all accurately represent what your "opponents" believe. Before you want to interpret someone else's faith and belief for them, at least have the courtesy to ask them what they believe and accurately represent that in your comments.
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Extraneous
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Ok then. Thanks for clearing that up. I'm not picking and choosing anything. I am choosing to leave the conversation however. I only want to know about Christ and nothing else. I see no profit in incessant debate over a flawed scientific theory. That's not the way of peace and joy in the spirit, unless division gives one joy..
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True, Extaneous, and you aren't infallible either, you are just another lay person stating his homespun opinion. So, what makes you think you are correct in everything you say?
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Extraneous
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That goes on both sides. Even so, incessant debate over a flawed scientific theory is not the way of peace and joy in the spirit, unless contention over worldly things gives one joy. Im sure that heathens enjoy it. Myself, im too old and tired for worldly wisdom and contention. THe Lord is all i care about. Christ alone is where i find strength and peace.
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Extraneous
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Layperson? I'm a follower of Christ and have Gods spirit. I am not a lay person. I am a Child of God. Your carnal language speaks volumes.
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How about the flying frog, EastCoast? Maybe horses don't have wings, but certain dinosaurs apparently did. How about a fox that turned into a dog? There is a longitudinal study going on in Russia to determine if a fox can be turned into a dog. So far, the results are quite promising. Also, your post shows you are very confused on how evolution is understood to work.
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Yes, you are a lay person, Extraneous. And it appears to me you have projected your preconceived-of biases back into Scripture and assume it is supporting your own homespun pet ideology. I take nothing at face value. With me, it 's not enough you anyone to claim he or she is a child of Christ, they have to prove it. So where is your evidence? All you have done so far is resort to anti-intellectual inflammatory rhetoric denouncing the sins of modern science, which you consider a thing of the Devil, and condemning to Hell the poor souls of your fellow Christians unfortunate enough to have disagreed with your supposedly inerrant belief system.
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What do you mean by TO, EastCoast? I gather theistic evolution or something like that. OK, fine. But I haven't seen you accurately state anything theistic evolution claims, let alone a solid rebuttal. With me, you really have to have your ducks in order and really incredible evidence. I am always suspicious when some lay person sets themselves up in judgment on science and claims to have more knowledge of matters than the scientific community does. I generally write that off as paranoid delusional thinking.
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Nobody is casting doubt on God and his Word. What I am casting doubt, a great deal of doubt on is your opinion, how well you understand God and his Word.
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We shouldn't have to point out transitional fossils to you, EastCoast. You present yourself as an expert on evolution, so you should already know what material we are talking about. If you have to as, that suggests maybe, just maybe, you are not as expert as you think.
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How is it possible, Breckman, that you, a lay person, can sit in judgment on science, that you know so much more about it than the scientific community does?
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Extraneous
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How? He who is spiritual judges all things.
1 Corinthians 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 16 For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.
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