LDS Why do Mormons think all Christians are in apostasy?

[tickingclocker]

Another interesting point about the temple garments is that when Joseph Smith died he was NOT wearing temple garments.

Isn't that odd?

"It was too hot to wear them."
- - Official answer from FAIRMORMON, apologist website created by the LDS for wavering mormons, to bolster all faltering beliefs, and eventually reorganized to include answers for everyone else to believe.

Must have been some heatwave. I've read on various sources over the years that a suddenly remorseful, terrified of dying Smith became convinced that the practice of polygamy was wrong, and he let it be known among his closer associates that he was mulling over renouncing it openly to the church. Then circumstances intervened and he was commanded to turn himself in at Carthage Jail. He never got the opportunity to renounce it. Meanwhile he had taken off his garments before turning himself in because "he was hot", and asked that the others going with him do likewise(?) Seems Joe thought if he was hot, everyone else should be as cool as he? Reminds me of the old joke I once saw in The New Yorker: Mother to child - "I'm cold. Put a sweater on." Never forgot how it made me laugh.

From General priesthood meeting minutes of December 21, 1845, Heber C. Kimball presiding:
"'Elder Kimball said word came to him [from Smith] and to all the Twelve about that time to lay aside their garments, and take them to pieces, or cut them up so that they could not be found. That in every habitation where any of the endowment clothes were found, [it] would [mean] death.'"
'Elder John Taylor confirmed the saying that Joseph and Hyrum and himself were without their robes [garments] in the jail at Carthage, while Dr. Richards had his on, but corrected the idea that some had, that they had taken them off through fear. W. W. Phelps said Joseph told him one day about that time, that he had laid aside his garment on account of the hot weather.'"

More than meets the eye, all this recounting among all these upstanding Mormons back then.... Must have been unusually hot that fateful summer, for Smith to consider everyone's 'comfort'--and that's it? Not to go chasing bogeymen down, but there does seem to be more than meets the eye here than just a Midwestern heatwave. I don't know, though. When were Mormons allowed to take their garments off back then? Swimming? Probably. For washing? Let's hope so.

Why do Mormons think all Christians are in Apostasy?
- - Because they are taught to think we are. They didn't come up with such a notion all on their own. Did they?

 

[withwonderingawe]

Are these the higher laws? A note of explanation would help. This sums it up better.

Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.

Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Not that these are the only 2, but all the laws are derived, come from-- Hang--all of them.

Yes they do and Jesus raised the bar in what was expected from us as Christians.

 

[withwonderingawe]

Do you know anything about the temple garments having an 'L' and 'V' on them, for the masonic square and compass? I heard these are on the temple garments as well as 'L' and 'V' symbols are cut into the temple veil that the voice talks through and puts their hands through to do the masonic handshakes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_garment See "Garments origins and evolution" sub heading and photo.

Don't they see how masonic all this is? It's amazing and all right there, out in the open. No wonder they were so upset that this all got out.

And if this ceremony is satanic they wear these masonic symbols on their person day and night never taking them off.

They place their eternal life in the hands of people. That's scary. Very scary.

Many many.... in fact most people who will make it into the Celestial Kingdom will have never worn temple garments and many people who do won't make it there.

 

[mmksparbud]

Many many.... in fact most people who will make it into the Celestial Kingdom will have never worn temple garments and many people who do won't make it there.

Where does this come from--besides JS?--I've never encountered anything in the bible about them.
My stepdaughter came to see me one day, I was making a dress for her and she needed to try it on. It was the first time I saw these garments. I asked, about them and if they were hot--she said not really---it was over 105 here. She said they are a reminder of where clothing is to measure to. No lower than the neckline of the top, no shorter than the bottom of the bottoms---or some such thing. I was speechless. Later I heard they are for protection against evil. It boggles the mind how easily people are led into believing such things are from God.

 

[fatboys]

Where does this come from--besides JS?--I've never encountered anything in the bible about them.
My stepdaughter came to see me one day, I was making a dress for her and she needed to try it on. It was the first time I saw these garments. I asked, about them and if they were hot--she said not really---it was over 105 here. She said they are a reminder of where clothing is to measure to. No lower than the neckline of the top, no shorter than the bottom of the bottoms---or some such thing. I was speechless. Later I heard they are for protection against evil. It boggles the mind how easily people are led into believing such things are from God.

It is a reminder of the covenants we make in the temple. If we remember the covenants with the help of the garments they will protect us from evil by keeping our minds focused on Christ. Humans have such a short memory even those things which have caused us pain and suffering be everyone needs to be reminded

 

[ToBeLoved]

It is a reminder of the covenants we make in the temple. If we remember the covenants with the help of the garments they will protect us from evil by keeping our minds focused on Christ. Humans have such a short memory even those things which have caused us pain and suffering be everyone needs to be reminded

I think you mean the prophet of the church, not Jesus Christ.

We have a hotline to Christ and it's not through a church.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Many many.... in fact most people who will make it into the Celestial Kingdom will have never worn temple garments and many people who do won't make it there.

Because of your quasi baptism sealings.

 

[mmksparbud]

Even God only asked for a fringe and a blue border on their garments--on the outside of their garments. Not hidden under their clothes. Out in the open where they could be seen, by the wearer and everyone else.

Num 15:38 Speak unto the children of Israel, and bid them that they make them fringes in the borders of their garments throughout their generations, and that they put upon the fringe of the borders a ribband of blue:

Num 15:39 And it shall be unto you for a fringe, that ye may look upon it, and remember all the commandments of the LORD, and do them; and that ye seek not after your own heart and your own eyes, after which ye use to go a whoring:

Num 15:40 That ye may remember, and do all my commandments, and be holy unto your God.

 

[fatboys]

I think you mean the prophet of the church, not Jesus Christ.

We have a hotline to Christ and it's not through a church.

That was uncalled for we do not need to be reminded about Joseph Smith any more than we do Moses or any other prophet. We take our covenants very serious and being light hearted about is not called for.

 

[withwonderingawe]

Because of your quasi baptism sealings.

Because they have learned the love of Christ, to love him and to love as he hath loved.

All the baptizing in the world won't help on bit if we have not charity.

 

[fatboys]

Even God only asked for a fringe and a blue border on their garments--on the outside of their garments. Not hidden under their clothes. Out in the open where they could be seen, by the wearer and everyone else.

Num 15:38 Speak unto the children of Israel, and bid them that they make them fringes in the borders of their garments throughout their generations, and that they put upon the fringe of the borders a ribband of blue:

Num 15:39 And it shall be unto you for a fringe, that ye may look upon it, and remember all the commandments of the LORD, and do them; and that ye seek not after your own heart and your own eyes, after which ye use to go a whoring:

Num 15:40 That ye may remember, and do all my commandments, and be holy unto your God.

This was the old law

 

[withwonderingawe]

Even God only asked for a fringe and a blue border on their garments--on the outside of their garments. Not hidden under their clothes. Out in the open where they could be seen, by the wearer and everyone else.

Num 15:38 Speak unto the children of Israel, and bid them that they make them fringes in the borders of their garments throughout their generations, and that they put upon the fringe of the borders a ribband of blue:

Num 15:39 And it shall be unto you for a fringe, that ye may look upon it, and remember all the commandments of the LORD, and do them; and that ye seek not after your own heart and your own eyes, after which ye use to go a whoring:

Num 15:40 That ye may remember, and do all my commandments, and be holy unto your God.

Jer 31
31 ¶Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

This is the New Covenant which has come to this earth through the Lord's prophet Joseph Smith, Israel is being gathered through the temple ceremonies.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Because they have learned the love of Christ, to love him and to love as he hath loved.

All the baptizing in the world won't help on bit if we have not charity.

Love is through masonic ordinances to try to seal dead people in heaven to living people on earth?

It's not about Christ quasi baptising dead people and sealing them to alive people. That is like some esoteric grave robbery and messing with people's souls. Isn't that why the priesthood is so desired, to bind in heaven what is bound on earth?

How do you know that these rituals are not putting souls in prison? You do not know what they are doing.

What is your definition of love? Charity?

 

[mmksparbud]

This was the old law

Yah I know that!!! I was just pointing out that God only required a blue band and fringe on the outer garment as a reminder---not these hidden garments under the clothing. There is nothing that demands these garments you wear today being worn in the NT.

 

[mmksparbud]

Jer 31
31 ¶Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

This is the New Covenant which has come to this earth through the Lord's prophet Joseph Smith, Israel is being gathered through the temple ceremonies.

Right---no garments under clothing needed!!!

 

[ToBeLoved]

Yah I know that!!! I was just pointing out that God only required a blue band and fringe on the outer garment as a reminder---not these hidden garments under the clothing. There is nothing that demands these garments you wear today being worn in the NT.

That's why it does not accept Christ's atonement. Because Christ is the end of all these OT things. To continue them is to not make Jesus Christ God.

That's why all these verses are OT verses. That's why Christ could not be perfect atonement and they need to go through priests like before Christ.

I think I'm seeing it now.

 

[withwonderingawe]

Right---no garments under clothing needed!!!

"But ye shall be named the Priests of the Lord: men shall call you the Ministers of our God:..... and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them.... I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels" Isa 61

• Revelation 16:15
  15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
  
  
• Revelation 3:4
  4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
  
  
• Rev 7
• 13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
  
  14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

 

[ToBeLoved]

"But ye shall be named the Priests of the Lord: men shall call you the Ministers of our God:..... and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them.... I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels" Isa 61

• Revelation 16:15
  15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
  
  
• Revelation 3:4
  4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
  
  
• Rev 7
• 13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
  
  14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Interesting. Is that part of the Bible that was not corrupted?

 

[mmksparbud]

"But ye shall be named the Priests of the Lord: men shall call you the Ministers of our God:..... and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them.... I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels" Isa 61

• Revelation 16:15
  15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
  
  
• Revelation 3:4
  4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
  
  
• Rev 7
• 13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
  
  14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

What have these verses got to do with any of this??? The Priesthood came to an end at the cross---we are clothed with Christ's Righteousness---there are no clothing made on this entire planet that can make us righteous. It is the blood of Jesus that cleanses and makes righteous, that is what makes the garments white--wearing white garments, means nothing.

 

[ToBeLoved]

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