Did God Create Fossils?

[BobRyan]

If we learned anything from the experience of the prophets and the Son of God it's to keep an open mind.

We learn to accept the Word of God - as they did rather than constantly 'telling our own stories'.

 

[BobRyan]

In #491 Hoghead1 claims that Elhanan killed Goliath.

Is this true?

The Bible has three versions of the event covering Goliath or his brother’s death:
1 Samuel 16-18 Three whole chapters of the encounter between only David and Goliath,
2 Samuel 21:19 where Elhanan the son of Jaareoregim slew Goliath the Gittite,
and 1 Chronicles 20:5 where Elhanan the son of Jair slew Lahmi the brother of Goliath the Gittite.

A copyist error has been made here somewhere, but let’s investigate the history of copyist errors now.
.

KING JAMES - 2 Sam 21:19
19 And there was again a battle in Gob with the Philistines, where Elhanan the son of Jaareoregim, a Bethlehemite, slew the brother of Goliath the Gittite, the staff of whose spear was like a weaver's beam

We are dealing with entirely different manuscript sources between the KJV and some of the other translations. There are a great many places where the KJV has been shown to be more accurate and where other less reliable translations omit entire sections of scripture.

To be fair there are also a few places where the other manuscripts and translations of them have a better rendering than the KJV (The book of Hebrews for example)

 

[BobRyan]

No, sorry, that does not work, Riberra. The Bible does not speak of any preAdamites.

Well that is true...

 

[BobRyan]

I think people should question the scientific method of carbon dating. Did you know there was a mythbuster episode that proved carbon dating to be false/ as in its not accurate. They put a piece of sweaty cloth in an oven at low heat for 3 days, when they carbon dated the piece it showed up as being over 600 years old. So for instance, some fossils contain more carbon than others not because of age but because of the heat, rain, and minerals in certain regions.
There is no proof that carbon dating is dead on accurate yet people seem to throw reason out the window when a super "smart" person just says so. So in theory you have to have faith that scientists are telling the truth making people slaves to scientific reason.

Carbon dating has a starting premise - which is that the concentration of C-14 in the atmosphere during the life of the organism is the same as it is today. So then c-14 'not building up' over time nor is it "allowed" that any starting conditions or environmental "canopy" could possibly exist that might "affect" atheist assumptions for the timeline.

Lots of "ifs" in that bit of story telling used by the radiometric model for detecting age..

That's Paul's gospel but he can't be blamed, he never knew Jesus.

How do you know that he did not see Jesus as he claims he did -- were you there? Did you get the video?

The lake of fire was made up by people who have no better ideas

Denying the Rev 20 Lake of Fire event that is predicted to happen in Rev 20 after the 1000 year millennium - was made up by people who can't afford to admit to the truth.

You can post your bias - I can post mine - but mine is from the actual Word of God.

See how easy that is??

Why not try out something more objective?

 

[Colter]

Having rejected the Bible account of that history - how do you have any clue as to what the Jews did or did not do with Christ or what his teachings even were??

Im a student of the Urantia revelation, it has the history of the planet as well as the entire life of Jesus, aka Christ Michael.

 

[Colter]

Carbon dating has a starting premise - which is that the concentration of C-14 in the atmosphere during the life of the organism is the same as it is today. So then c-14 'not building up' over time nor is it "allowed" that any starting conditions or environmental "canopy" could possibly exist that might "affect" atheist assumptions for the timeline.

Lots of "ifs" in that bit of story telling used by the radiometric model for detecting age..



How do you know that he did not see Jesus as he claims he did -- were you there? Did you get the video?



Denying the Rev 20 Lake of Fire event that is predicted to happen in Rev 20 after the 1000 year millennium - was made up by people who can't afford to admit to the truth.

You can post your bias - I can post mine - but mine is from the actual Word of God.

See how easy that is??

Why not try out something more objective?

I see how easy it was for the priest class to control the message by first establishing their writings as Gods. From there it's manipulation and oppression.

 

[Colter]

We learn to accept the Word of God - as they did rather than constantly 'telling our own stories'.

The words of holy men purported to be the words of God.

 

[Colter]

Carbon dating has a starting premise - which is that the concentration of C-14 in the atmosphere during the life of the organism is the same as it is today. So then c-14 'not building up' over time nor is it "allowed" that any starting conditions or environmental "canopy" could possibly exist that might "affect" atheist assumptions for the timeline.

Lots of "ifs" in that bit of story telling used by the radiometric model for detecting age..



How do you know that he did not see Jesus as he claims he did -- were you there? Did you get the video?



Denying the Rev 20 Lake of Fire event that is predicted to happen in Rev 20 after the 1000 year millennium - was made up by people who can't afford to admit to the truth.

You can post your bias - I can post mine - but mine is from the actual Word of God.

See how easy that is??

Why not try out something more objective?

The focus of the original gospel of Jesus was life in and through faith. Paul's gospel was the post cross atonement theory.

 

[miamited]

If we learned anything from the experience of the prophets and the Son of God it's to keep an open mind.

Hi colter,

Honestly, in my many, many hours of studying the Scriptures, I never found that truth.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[Colter]

Hi colter,

Honestly, in my many, many hours of studying the Scriptures, I never found that truth.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

Jesus did:


2929 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous,30 saying, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’31 Thus you witness against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets.32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers.33 You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell?34 Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and persecute from town to town,35 so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah,[f] whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar.36 Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah,[f] whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar.36 Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

 

[miamited]

Jesus did:


2929 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous,30 saying, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’31 Thus you witness against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets.32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers.33 You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell?34 Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and persecute from town to town,35 so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah,[f] whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar.36 Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah,[f] whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar.36 Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

Hi colter,

And from that you have gleaned that God is teaching us to have an open mind? To me it teaches just the opposite. The Jews were so open minded that they forsook the truth of God for what they had gleaned from their open mindedness rather than following what God had told them. I guess it's a matter of perspective.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[Colter]

Hi colter,

And from that you have gleaned that God is teaching us to have an open mind? To me it teaches just the opposite. The Jews were so open minded that they forsook the truth of God for what they had gleaned from their open mindedness rather than following what God had told them. I guess it's a matter of perspective.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

God is teaching us to search for living truth, for the living Word. The Jews had fixed ideas about themselves based on the writings of their own holy men. Jesus asked us to love as he loved, yet we have added so much more to a religion about him.

 

[James Wilson]

Many contemporary biblical scholars into the Higher Criticism are ordained clergy. The Higher Criticism is taught in many seminaries.

I'm well aware that Higher Criticism is taught in many seminaries. I posted a comment recently in this string with my estimate that 80% of the seminaries in the US teach Higher Criticism. In my post about my father's experience in seminary, he testified that without the Bible studies with the other students, he would have lost his own faith. In addition, I've heard the joke often from believers of inerrant Scripture, "Christian faith is being killed off degree by degree," or "The pastors went to the cemetery... the seminary for their degrees."

My first mentor in Higher Criticism, a pastor in a mainline church, said that most pastors he knew had to hide their Higher Criticism from their congregations because most church-goers of that time (this was about half a century ago) believed the written Word. So these pastors were like guerilla fighters within the congregations they pastored.

With regard to my statement, "Higher Critics don't believe in God in the first place or believe in a weak god", let me ask a few questions of you:
Do you believe that Christ has the power to enforce His statement, "Heaven and earth shall pass away but My word will never perish"?
Do you believe that God has the power to enforce His statement in Isaiah 48 about prophesying His future actions so that when they happen, we don't claim our idols have done this. In order for God to fulfill this statement, the original context of Isaiah would have to be faithfully reported to us, as well as the particular prophecies and their fulfillment. By the way, it wouldn't be sufficient for some of these prophecies and fulfillments to reach our ears if the instrument that carries them (the Bible torn up by Higher Critics) doesn't have enough credibility in our time to be accepted.

The importance of a credible Bible is crucial. That's why I wonder why you spend so much time tearing down the Bible using HC charges that are fairly easily dismissed, as shown in my earlier postings. Perhaps you could have done better than I have done, given your seminary education in HC. I pray that you do, in the future.

 

[James Wilson]

The bottom line is that after the captivity the Hebrew preist redacted their entire history, they converted a secular history into a miraculous one. There is no secular history of the Jews that accompanies their religious history. Secular history books mentioned in their scriptures ironically were not preserved.

This is a statement of faith based upon much less evidence than Holy Scripture has presented to us.

Please don't use the UB as a source to justify this statement. The UB must be much older in order to have real-time knowledge of the actions of priests in the Old Testament, but then it wouldn't have the long pedigree necessarily to show that careful copyists passed it down to us (at least as careful as the scribes handling the Bible. Keep in mind that the Dead Sea Scrolls included a copy of the book of Isaiah that was 1,000 years older than any existent copy and showed essentially no changes in those thousand years of copying. Does your UB have such a sterling pedigree?)

 

[James Wilson]

I don't have any statement I'm responding to, just a general statement about belief in the whole Bible:

When man sins, God seeks reconciliation (that means, to bring man back to Himself). This activity of God is shown in popular verses:

Ps. 139 - Verses such as "Where can I go from Your Spirit? ...to heaven ...to hell ...to darkness?" Yet God pursues to find the lost, even when those lost are fleeing Him.

Hosea 8 - With verses like "Israel is swallowed up; Now they are among the Gentiles like a vessel in which there is no pleasure. For they have gone up to Assyria, like a wild donkey alone by itself; Ephraim has hired lovers. Yes, though they have hired among the nations, now I will gather them." God seeks even those unfaithful to Him.

The words of Christ on the cross, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do."

This is the heart of God, revealed in both the Old Testament and the New.
The Jews in both Testaments tried to destroy the message.
The Romans tried to kill off believers and destroy Bibles carrying this message.
Gnostics from the first century on have tried to distort the message so it supported their own imaginings.
Now the scourge of the 20th and 21st centuries, the Higher Critics try to distort the clear message of God.

Higher Critics have persisted in this string trying to tell us that our Bible sounds an unclear message.

Keep in mind God's attitude toward men who think themselves wise: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise" and "I will use the foolish to confound the wise". Who claims to be wise today? Who would be the recipient of God's confounding in our day?

God loves the simple. He reaches out to them.

The Gnostic message has always been, "We are wise. Come to us if you want to find your way to God."

Who are the modern day Gnostics?

Who are the simple loved by God and blessed by God?

 

[miamited]

God is teaching us to search for living truth, for the living Word. The Jews had fixed ideas about themselves based on the writings of their own holy men. Jesus asked us to love as he loved, yet we have added so much more to a religion about him.

Hi colter,

I agree that the Jews had fixed ideas about themselves, but I don't believe the source of those fixed ideas was the writings of the holy jewish men who wrote the Scriptures. Rather they were the ideas of their holy men who served as priests and leaders. But the problem, as I see it, was that they allowed themselves to be open minded to ideas and teachings that were not a part of the Scriptures.

This is exactly the same thing that happens with people today. Rather than sticking to and obeying the pure word of truth that came from God, we want to tickle our imagination and our thoughts with new and different ideas. Ideas that we think are better and more sensible and logical. Ideas that appease our understanding of things. All of the new covenant writers warned us of such thinking. Paul wrote to Timothy of a time coming when people would no longer put up with sound doctrine, but rather surround themselves with those who would tell them what their itching ears wanted to hear. Peter wrote of wolves among the sheep. Those who find the Scriptures hard to understand. Who secretly introduce false heresies and teach fabricated stories.

You and I don't agree on much and it's very possible that we never will.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[Colter]

Hi colter,

I agree that the Jews had fixed ideas about themselves, but I don't believe the source of those fixed ideas was the writings of the holy jewish men who wrote the Scriptures. Rather they were the ideas of their holy men who served as priests and leaders. But the problem, as I see it, was that they allowed themselves to be open minded to ideas and teachings that were not a part of the Scriptures.

This is exactly the same thing that happens with people today. Rather than sticking to and obeying the pure word of truth that came from God, we want to tickle our imagination and our thoughts with new and different ideas. Ideas that we think are better and more sensible and logical. Ideas that appease our understanding of things. All of the new covenant writers warned us of such thinking. Paul wrote to Timothy of a time coming when people would no longer put up with sound doctrine, but rather surround themselves with those who would tell them what their itching ears wanted to hear. Peter wrote of wolves among the sheep. Those who find the Scriptures hard to understand. Who secretly introduce false heresies and teach fabricated stories.

You and I don't agree on much and it's very possible that we never will.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

Paul is one to talk about sound doctrine, he taught his own.

You are correct, you hide behind the scripture which at best dates to Moses, there was NO scripture in Egypt that guided, because they had a significantly different religion than the Hollywood like version found in the Hebrew retrospectives. Abraham left no scripture that survives, thousands of years predates Abraham, NO scripture!

Let's agree to disagree and not continue to waste pages here.

Thanks

 

[Colter]

This is a statement of faith based upon much less evidence than Holy Scripture has presented to us.

Please don't use the UB as a source to justify this statement. The UB must be much older in order to have real-time knowledge of the actions of priests in the Old Testament, but then it wouldn't have the long pedigree necessarily to show that careful copyists passed it down to us (at least as careful as the scribes handling the Bible. Keep in mind that the Dead Sea Scrolls included a copy of the book of Isaiah that was 1,000 years older than any existent copy and showed essentially no changes in those thousand years of copying. Does your UB have such a sterling pedigree?)

Yes, the UB comes from celestial beings who have been on the earth and beyond from the time that life began on our evolved earth. We have the entire life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth now. Another massive revelation has occurred, it is the Bible of the next age.

 

[Colter]

I don't have any statement I'm responding to, just a general statement about belief in the whole Bible:

When man sins, God seeks reconciliation (that means, to bring man back to Himself). This activity of God is shown in popular verses:

Ps. 139 - Verses such as "Where can I go from Your Spirit? ...to heaven ...to hell ...to darkness?" Yet God pursues to find the lost, even when those lost are fleeing Him.

Hosea 8 - With verses like "Israel is swallowed up; Now they are among the Gentiles like a vessel in which there is no pleasure. For they have gone up to Assyria, like a wild donkey alone by itself; Ephraim has hired lovers. Yes, though they have hired among the nations, now I will gather them." God seeks even those unfaithful to Him.

The words of Christ on the cross, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do."

This is the heart of God, revealed in both the Old Testament and the New.
The Jews in both Testaments tried to destroy the message.
The Romans tried to kill off believers and destroy Bibles carrying this message.
Gnostics from the first century on have tried to distort the message so it supported their own imaginings.
Now the scourge of the 20th and 21st centuries, the Higher Critics try to distort the clear message of God.

Higher Critics have persisted in this string trying to tell us that our Bible sounds an unclear message.

Keep in mind God's attitude toward men who think themselves wise: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise" and "I will use the foolish to confound the wise". Who claims to be wise today? Who would be the recipient of God's confounding in our day?

God loves the simple. He reaches out to them.

The Gnostic message has always been, "We are wise. Come to us if you want to find your way to God."

Who are the modern day Gnostics?

Who are the simple loved by God and blessed by God?

It just never occurs to bible worshipers that some of the authors of scripture thought themselves wise. No, it's always those who question their inconsistencies. The Shamans set up such a wonderful, profitable system for themselves.

 

[Colter]

Back to the topic, God created the life that evolved into the dinosaurs that left bones in the archeological record. The Persian theories of original sin that found a place in Hebrew theology would have a world where nothing ever dies. That would be very crowded and the carnivores' would be very hungry, or they would be eating things alive that never died and......well that we be very messy and strange!


Loss of mortality came specifically to Adam and Eve, you can see that in the fragmented remains of the ancient oral tradition used by the Hebrews in their creation book Genesis. The evolved earth had already fallen, the crafty beast was already evil, already working against Gods will for Adam and Eve.