Unbelief, is it a sin?

[Foghorn]

I find it more productive when confronted with a veiled post to ask a question and let the perpetrator reveal his own intentions. Thank you for revealing yours in your last sentence there .

No you responded to my post by quoting scripture. If you would have answered anything you would have stated what that scripture meant to you and how that relates to the present conversation. That's talking to a person. Just throwing out scripture is talking at someone and it doesn't endear anyone to you.


Philosophy is a manner in which you deal with the world and it has been around since before the Greeks ever gave it a name.

I said throwing scripture around. The Gospels are just a part of the Bible and they need to be explained and talked about as much as every other part of the Bible. The issue is that they are not being discussed. People are just quoting a passage here and a passage there and tossing it out as is, as if a person not familiar with it would benefit by it as it is given them.

The seed I'm talking about is the seed of interest and you plant that by taking enough interest in people to let them know they matter. That's what I'm talking about when I say talking to a person instead of talking at them.

I see the effects of indoctrination every day and I confront that the same way I confront any other type of prejudice. Directly and in person. That's what I do and I've done it since the time I found out that there was something better than being angry over what other people wanted me to be angry about.


But I do have the power to speak to those who are in the grip of intolerating intolerance, or what they've been told intolerance is.

No that's not compromise. That's saying what needs to be said so that I can be understood by those listening to me.

Where did I say that. I said don't throw scripture at people. That's like throwing a piece of paper at someone with a sentence written on it and thinking they will get something out of that. You need to explain that.

You don't understand people you will never get close enough for them to understand you. Especially when you have the media telling them how crazy we all are.

what?

You haven't even understood what I've been saying. How can you disagree with me. You are thinking that since I stated not to throw scripture at people that I meant not us it. Have you ever thought it was your delivery that I was against and not the subject matter. I've explained this as much as I can. So please ask me what I mean instead of telling me what you think I mean. This goes dirrectly with my statement that you are talking at people instead of to them.




Right over your head. Please if you would ask me instead of insinuating things. I'm not the mental image that's emanating from your imagination. I'm real and I'm me.

I rest my case, I have nothing more to say The proof is in the pudding.

Thanks for your opinion.

 

[EmSw]

Why no, why do you ask?

You speak as one. You believe as one.

Ummm, not before what?

Regeneration does not come before hearing, understanding, and believing the living word.

Is your faith in your faith? Or, is your faith in Christ?

Matthew 9:29
Then touched he their eyes, saying, according to your faith be it unto you.

What does 'your' faith mean?

Matthew 15:28
Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

Whose faith was great according to Jesus? Whose will was it to have the daughter made whole?

If you caused yourself to be born again, it was in your faith.

Whose faith was it that healed in the above passages?

If God caused you to be born again, it's in Christ.

Can you see the difference?

In the above passages, Jesus caused the healing, but it wasn't until they showed their faith.

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

I rest my case, I have nothing more to say The proof is in the pudding.

Thanks for your opinion.

A disingenuous response. Is this really how you want to end our discussion?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I find it more productive when confronted with a veiled post to ask a question and let the perpetrator reveal his own intentions. Thank you for revealing yours in your last sentence there .

No you responded to my post by quoting scripture. If you would have answered anything you would have stated what that scripture meant to you and how that relates to the present conversation. That's talking to a person. Just throwing out scripture is talking at someone and it doesn't endear anyone to you.


Philosophy is a manner in which you deal with the world and it has been around since before the Greeks ever gave it a name.

I said throwing scripture around. The Gospels are just a part of the Bible and they need to be explained and talked about as much as every other part of the Bible. The issue is that they are not being discussed. People are just quoting a passage here and a passage there and tossing it out as is, as if a person not familiar with it would benefit by it as it is given them.

The seed I'm talking about is the seed of interest and you plant that by taking enough interest in people to let them know they matter. That's what I'm talking about when I say talking to a person instead of talking at them.

I see the effects of indoctrination every day and I confront that the same way I confront any other type of prejudice. Directly and in person. That's what I do and I've done it since the time I found out that there was something better than being angry over what other people wanted me to be angry about.


But I do have the power to speak to those who are in the grip of intolerating intolerance, or what they've been told intolerance is.

No that's not compromise. That's saying what needs to be said so that I can be understood by those listening to me.

Where did I say that. I said don't throw scripture at people. That's like throwing a piece of paper at someone with a sentence written on it and thinking they will get something out of that. You need to explain that.

You don't understand people you will never get close enough for them to understand you. Especially when you have the media telling them how crazy we all are.

what?

You haven't even understood what I've been saying. How can you disagree with me. You are thinking that since I stated not to throw scripture at people that I meant not us it. Have you ever thought it was your delivery that I was against and not the subject matter. I've explained this as much as I can. So please ask me what I mean instead of telling me what you think I mean. This goes dirrectly with my statement that you are talking at people instead of to them.




Right over your head. Please if you would ask me instead of insinuating things. I'm not the mental image that's emanating from your imagination. I'm real and I'm me.

While we should love people and talk to them as human beings with care and respect, I do not believe that simply quoting Scripture without an explanation qualifies as not caring for a person or equate with talking to them. Jesus and the apostles quoted Scripture and they did not always provide a commentary or a detailed explanation. For the Scriptures have one specific intended meaning.

As for using God's Word with unbelievers: Faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God. We cannot absolutely say who will ultimately be receptive to God's Word in this life. It may take a planting of God's Word in a particular person's heart all their life before they accept the Lord. Paul used to be a persecutor of Christians. Who would have ever thought he would have had a change of heart?

Side Note:

Oh, and I am not a Calvinist. I am just stating the truth where it needs to be stated, my friend.


...

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Many threads seems to be getting derailed and a bit wild tonight for some reason. . .

Back to the OP: Is unbelief a sin?

It's not simply that we don't believe in God, but that we don't believe God. Our lack of trust in Him is a horrible sin because we defame His character by it. Our action (or inaction) speaks to the world. It shouts a message. It proclaims to the watching world: God is a liar; God is not almighty; God is unloving. . .

do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion,
during the time of testing in the wilderness,

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

While we should love people and talk to them as human beings with care and respect, I do not believe that simply quoting Scripture without an explanation qualifies as not caring for a person or equate with talking to them. Jesus and the apostles quoted Scripture and they did not always provide a commentary or a detailed explanation. For the Scriptures have one specific intended meaning.

What scripture did they quote? I would also point out that there wasn't a media setting around telling everybody that religion was evil and those who preached it were bigots.

As for using God's Word with unbelievers: Faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God. We cannot absolutely say who will ultimately be receptive to God's Word in this life. It may take a planting of God's Word in a particular person's heart all their life before they accept the Lord. Paul used to be a persecutor of Christians. Who would have ever thought he would have had a change of heart?

Side Note:

Oh, and I am not a Calvinist. I am just stating the truth where it needs to be stated, my friend.


...

It's got to reach them first and that necessitates taking it to them in a manner they will not reject it, utterly. Some will anyway, but you get more with honey than you do with salt.

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

Many threads seems to be getting derailed and a bit wild tonight for some reason. . .

Back to the OP: Is unbelief a sin?

It's not simply that we don't believe in God, but that we don't believe God. Our lack of trust in Him is a horrible sin because we defame His character by it. Our action (or inaction) speaks to the world. It shouts a message. It proclaims to the watching world: God is a liar; God is not almighty; God is unloving. . .

Is that because people don't believe in him or don't get what they expect from him and simply forgo acknowledging him from then on out.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

What scripture did they quote?

If you are referring to the person you are talking to here on this forum as to what Scripture they quoted, you said this to them...

"No you responded to my post by quoting scripture. If you would have answered anything you would have stated what that scripture meant to you and how that relates to the present conversation. That's talking to a person. Just throwing out scripture is talking at someone and it doesn't endear anyone to you."​

If you are referring to what Scripture did Jesus and the apostles quoted:

Well, any student of God's Word knows Jesus and his followers quoted Scripture.

In all of Christ's teachings He referred to the divine authority of the Old Testament (Matthew 5:17-18; Matthew 8:17; Matthew 12:40-42; Luke 4:18-21; Luke 10:25-28; Luke 15:29-31; Luke 17:32; Luke 24:25-45; John 5:39-47). He quoted the Old Testament 78 times, the Pentateuch alone 26 times. He quoted from Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Psalms, Proverbs, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Amos, Jonah, Micah, and Malachi. He referred to the Old Testament as “The Scriptures,” “the word of God,” and “the wisdom of God.” The apostles quoted 209 times from the Old Testament and considered it “the oracles of God.” The Old Testament in hundreds of places predicted the events of the New Testament; and as the New Testament is the fulfillment of, and testifies to the genuineness and authenticity of the Old Testament, both Testaments must be considered together as the Word of God.

I would also point out that there wasn't a media setting around telling everybody that religion was evil and those who preached it were bigots.

I have no idea what you mean by this statement.

It's got to reach them first and that necessitates taking it to them in a manner they will not reject it, utterly. Some will anyway, but you get more with honey than you do with salt.

I am not in disagreement that we are to speak God's Word in love with people. But again, it is not wrong or unloving to just quote Scripture and not provide any commentary or explanation. For the Word of God speaks for itself and it is spiritually living book that has touched the hearts of many lives (and transformed them by the power of God).


Source Used for 1st paragraph within this post:
http://www.puritanboard.com/showthr...y-times-did-Jesus-quote-the-OT-in-the-gospels


...

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

If you are referring to the person you are talking to here on this forum as to what Scripture they quoted, you said this to them...

"No you responded to my post by quoting scripture. If you would have answered anything you would have stated what that scripture meant to you and how that relates to the present conversation. That's talking to a person. Just throwing out scripture is talking at someone and it doesn't endear anyone to you."​

If you are referring to what Scripture did Jesus and the apostles quoted:

Well, any student of God's Word knows Jesus and his followers quoted Scripture.

In all of Christ's teachings He referred to the divine authority of the Old Testament (Matthew 5:17-18; Matthew 8:17; Matthew 12:40-42; Luke 4:18-21; Luke 10:25-28; Luke 15:29-31; Luke 17:32; Luke 24:25-45; John 5:39-47). He quoted the Old Testament 78 times, the Pentateuch alone 26 times. He quoted from Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Psalms, Proverbs, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Amos, Jonah, Micah, and Malachi. He referred to the Old Testament as “The Scriptures,” “the word of God,” and “the wisdom of God.” The apostles quoted 209 times from the Old Testament and considered it “the oracles of God.” The Old Testament in hundreds of places predicted the events of the New Testament; and as the New Testament is the fulfillment of, and testifies to the genuineness and authenticity of the Old Testament, both Testaments must be considered together as the Word of God.

And they quoted them to Israelites who were steeped in tradition and at least had a cursory understanding of their own history. They didn't have whole parts of their society teaching them from grammar school how to be politically correct and not to listen to those who aren't.

You have to take the culture of your audience into account.

I have no idea what you mean by this statement.

That's absolutely astounding. You have no idea the temperament in the u.s. as opposed to Christianity and the demonetization that is coming from all forms of media.

I am not in disagreement that we are to speak God's Word in love with people. But again, it is not wrong or unloving to just quote Scripture and not provide any commentary or explanation. For the Word of God speaks for itself and it is spiritually living book that has touched the hearts of many lives (and transformed them by the power of God).


Source Used for 1st paragraph within this post:
http://www.puritanboard.com/showthr...y-times-did-Jesus-quote-the-OT-in-the-gospels


...

Again, You are inside the fishbowl of Christianity, looking out on a world that finds us distasteful. People don't come to the Lord unless they are ready and if they think that the Bible is nothing more than what they've been taught by the media it is then they won't even take the time. That's why we have to reach out to them and explain ourselves.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

And they quoted them to Israelites who were steeped in tradition and at least had a cursory understanding of their own history. They didn't have whole parts of their society teaching them from grammar school how to be politically correct and not to listen to those who aren't. You have to take the culture of your audience into account.

No. Culture has nothing to do with it. We are to follow Christs example.

"For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps."
(1 Peter 2:21).

Even Paul said we are to followers of him as he is of Christ.

"Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ."
(1 Corinthians 11:1).

Man shall not live by bread alone (Matthew 4:4).
The sword of the Spirit is the Word of God (Ephesians 6:17).
How can you go into battle without using your weapon?

That's absolutely astounding. You have no idea the temperament in the u.s. as opposed to Christianity and the demonetization that is coming from all forms of media.

First, you are speaking in words so as to sound impressive and intelligent. Speak plainly.
For Paul says, "we use great plainness of speech" (2 Corinthians 3:12).
Second, you have not given me a reason as to why you are saying this and how it relates to what we are talking about.
It's like you are randomly talking about the mating habits of monkeys but you are not clearly tying such a topic of discusson with what we are talking about here in this thread or with what somebody has said.
In other words, your words are like a clambering noise that doesn't make any sense.
Please speak plainly and then tie it to something that we are actually talking about.

Again, You are inside the fishbowl of Christianity, looking out on a world that finds us distasteful. People don't come to the Lord unless they are ready and if they think that the Bible is nothing more than what they've been taught by the media it is then they won't even take the time. That's why we have to reach out to them and explain ourselves.

The Word of God has been quoted by Jesus Christ and the apostles without an explanation. Why? Because it can be understood for those who are looking to come to God. It is a spiritual book and must be spiritually discerned (i.e. those who have open eyes and ears). The Bible tells us to preach the Word (2 Timothy 4:2). That is a Command in God's Word. You either believe that or you do not believe it.


...

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

No. Culture has nothing to do with it. We are to follow Christs example.

"For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps."
(1 Peter 2:21).

Even Paul said we are to followers of him as he is of Christ.

"Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ."
(1 Corinthians 11:1).

Man shall not live by bread alone.
The sword of the Spirit is the Word of God.
How can you go into battle without using your weapon?



First, you are speaking in words so as to sound impressive and intelligent. Speak plainly.
For Paul says, "we use great plainness of speech" (2 Corinthians 3:12).
Second, you have not given me a reason as to why you are saying this and how it relates to what we are talking about.
It's like you are randomly talking about the mating habits of monkeys but you are not clearly tying such a topic of discusson with what we are talking about here in this thread or with what somebody has said.
In other words, your words are like a clambering noise that doesn't make any sense.
Please speak plainly and then tie it to what we are talking about.



The Word of God has been quoted by Jesus Christ and the apostles without an explanation. Why? Because it can be understood for those who are looking to come to God. It is a spiritual book and must be spiritually discerned.


...

Look, you are on the inside looking out and I've stepped out of that cocoon to reach out to others. I've tried communicating with you but you simply aren't getting reality.
If I would have one wish, I would have you do some missionary work out on the streets and you would find out just how workable what I've stated is. It does work. It has before and it will again.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Look, you are on the inside looking out and I've stepped out of that cocoon to reach out to others. I've tried communicating with you but you simply aren't getting reality.
If I would have one wish, I would have you do some missionary work out on the streets and you would find out just how workable what I've stated is. It does work. It has before and it will again.

And if a person is not following the Word of God correctly in their missionary work, they are falsely converting people.
2 Timothy 4:2 says to "Preach the Word."
Jesus and the apostles quoted Scripture and offered no explanation always.
We are told in God's Word to follow them as examples.
So I will trust God's Word over what you are saying instead.
Why? Because it is God's Word and it is the authority for my life.

...

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

And if a person is not following the Word of God correctly in their missionary work, they are falsely converting people.
2 Timothy 4:2 says to "Preach the Word."
Jesus and the apostles quoted Scripture and offered no explanation always.
We are told in God's Word to follow them as examples.
So I will trust God's Word over what you are saying instead.
Why? Because it is God's Word and it is the authority for my life.

...

Who said anything about not following the word of God. I am and have been talking about the manner in which you reach out to others, not the content you use. I've come to the conclusion that you are listening to what you want to listen to and hearing what you want to hear. You've been preaching to the choir and not listening to a word I've said.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Who said anything about not following the word of God. I am and have been talking about the manner in which you reach out to others, not the content you use. I've come to the conclusion that you are listening to what you want to listen to and hearing what you want to hear. You've been preaching to the choir and not listening to a word I've said.

And I stated that Jesus and the apostles had quoted Scripture without explaining it. That does not mean that you can't explain Scripture. The point of argument is that you have come up with a personal belief system that says you cannot simply quote Scripture without an explanation when Jesus and the apostles have done so (And we are told to follow them as examples).


...

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

And I stated that Jesus and the apostles had quoted Scripture without explaining it. That does not mean that you can't explain Scripture. The point of argument is that you have come up with a personal belief system that says you cannot simply quote Scripture without an explanation when Jesus and the apostles have done so (And we are told to follow them as examples).


...

I've not come up with anything. Speaking to people is what people have been doing for a very long time. That is before the internet came about and then suddenly we can treat people any way we want to. We can talk at people and and simply forget that they are human at all.

What I stated is that in order to be listened to you have to engage people and that means not tossing a scripture at them as if that itself will interest them, when these people have lives of their own and also have the image of the last religious nutjob the media interviewed who was talking about flat Earth or something.

As I've stated the people, the culture and the times are different than they were back then, but you seem to think that doesn't matter, which is phenomenal.

P.S. I use the language I've always used and If you take this any more personal, by suggesting I'm faking intelligence you'll be talking to an admin. I don't put up with people who think they talk to people anyway they wish. If you can't debate without pulling such things I will gladly pull the plug on you with the ignore button.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

There are two kinds of people in this world. There are people who want to do their own thing and there are people who want to follow God and His Word all the way. What you are teaching is not in line with God's Word in what it actually says. God's Word is not changed by the times. I think God wants you to follow His Word instead of thinking it has changed (so as to teach something it does not specifically say) due to the times. For...

"...the word of the Lord endureth for ever." (1 Peter 1:25).


...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Also, Paul says,

"4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power.
5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory."
(1 Corinthians 2:4-7).


...

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

There are two kinds of people in this world. There are people who want to do their own thing and there are people who want to follow God and His Word all the way. What you are teaching is not in line with God's Word in what it actually says. God's Word is not changed by the times. I think God wants you to follow His Word instead of thinking it has changed (so as to teach something it does not specifically say) due to the times. For...

"...the word of the Lord endureth for ever." (1 Peter 1:25).


...

That's about as false a representation of everything I've said from the first time I entered this post. I've made that quite clear but you seem to have taken it upon yourself to ignore what I've said and inserted own narrative, so I really don't consider this a dialog anymore. It is your interpretation on what you want to hear and me explaining myself to anyone else who happens to read this post.

I've never added or detracted anything from scripture, but I've gone further in talking with others than you seem to think necessary. I think people are well worth it and you seem to think if they don't get the meaning of the scripture you pick to place in front of them, then they are on their own and you seemingly wash your hands of them.

My principals of dealing with people are not in line with your interpretation of scripture and as I told you it is the audience that have changed and not the word of God, so you can stop reiterating something that I never made a case against.

What I've stated is exactly what every preacher has ever done behind every pulpit, in every church on every Sunday since Christianity began and that is discuss what is in the Bible and if it's good enough for Christians than it should be good enough for those who are searching for God. If I get stuck I can always ask the Pastors here and get their advice.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

That's about as false a representation of everything I've said from the first time I entered this post. I've made that quite clear but you seem to have taken it upon yourself to ignore what I've said and inserted own narrative, so I really don't consider this a dialog anymore. It is your interpretation on what you want to hear and me explaining myself to anyone else who happens to read this post.

I've never added or detracted anything from scripture, but I've gone further in talking with others than you seem to think necessary. I think people are well worth it and you seem to think if they don't get the meaning of the scripture you pick to place in front of them, then they are on their own and you seemingly wash your hands of them.

My principals of dealing with people are not in line with your interpretation of scripture and as I told you it is the audience that have changed and not the word of God, so you can stop reiterating something that I never made a case against.

What I've stated is exactly what every preacher has ever done behind every pulpit, in every church on every Sunday since Christianity began and that is discuss what is in the Bible and if it's good enough for Christians than it should be good enough for those who are searching for God. If I get stuck I can always ask the Pastors here and get their advice.

Did you not essentially say it is wrong for a person to just quote Scripture to people without giving an explanation behind it?
If that is the case, then Jesus and the apostles were also wrong for doing so.
Oh, but wait, they could do it because the times were different?
Really?
Does God's Word change due to the changes of men?
I don't think so.

...

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

Did you not essentially say it is wrong for a person to just quote Scripture to people without giving an explanation behind it?
If that is the case, then Jesus and the apostles were also wrong for doing so.
Oh, but wait, they could do it because the times were different?
Really?
Does God's Word change due to the changes of men?
I don't think so.

...

Did I not say the audience changed instead. I think I did. You keep on ignoring that little fact as if 2000 years of the devils influence and the fact that Jesus was talking to the Israelite, who were steeped in the Judism and their own history.

When you have a culture whose schools, collages social medias, news organizations and many parts of it's own political system who are actively working against Christianity and are constantly demonizing Christian. You really don't think that has changed the outlook and of the general populous and made them negative towards anything in the Bible. You have to assuage their negitive attitudes towards us and that includes explaining the scriptures that are being used.