How should we read Paul?

[Righttruth]

James and Peter also share hidden wisdom. The milk is in the commands, and we surely need those because we must first start off on milk, but the meat is given by the spirit.

I don't think there is any hidden wisdom in their letters. Meat (food) is in the words of Jesus.

 

[Righttruth]

Christ said blessed are those who keep the prophecy in the book of Revelation. Paul only helps us understand it better. He indeed gives us meat. We need the Lord to open our eyes however. It takes time, and obedience to His word. Obedience alone will help us escape the calamities of Revelation, but the meat will help us see this wonderful mystery.

We believe the book of Revelation. But we should not interpret it because it may vary from person to person. Those who trust Jesus will not be afraid of facing any calamity.

 

[Extraneous]

I don't think there is any hidden wisdom in their letters. Meat (food) is in the words of Jesus.

Its all meat. There is a lot of hidden wisdom in it.

 

[Righttruth]

A lot of people dont take Christs commands, and those of Paul either, seriously. They blind themselves because of it.

I agree. Many don't even like many statements of Paul. They pick and choose, for convenient theology. Ex: on marriage and women's role in church.

 

[Extraneous]

We believe the book of Revelation. But we should not interpret it because it may vary from person to person. Those who trust Jesus will not be afraid of facing any calamity.

Im not afraid. Paul lead me to understand how to follow the spirit, and how to find strength through the spirit, in the Lord. I can understand what paul means when he says to live is Christ and to die is gain. Not that i would compare myself to him because he endured far more than i, but his words help me in my own life.

 

[Righttruth]

Its not speculation, and furthermore the things written by Paul, and written in Revelation, are spoken of throughout the OT as well, and the OT was written well before the book of Revelation.

Not all especially matters concerning with the coming and ascension of Jesus and His future rule, etc.

 

[Extraneous]

I agree. Many don't even like many statements of Paul. They pick and choose, for convenient theology. Ex: on marriage and women's role in church.

I don't concern myself with Church matters, i concern myself with following the Lord.

 

[Righttruth]

Im not afraid. Paul lead me to understand how to follow the spirit, and how to find strength through the spirit, in the Lord. I can understand what paul means when he says to live is Christ and to die is gain. Not that i would compare myself to him because he endured far more than i, but his words help me in my own life.

Fine, because it complements what Jesus said.
Matthew 10
39 He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it.

 

[Righttruth]

I don't concern myself with Church matters, i concern myself with following the Lord.

Are you following or believing Christ?

 

[Extraneous]

Not all especially matters concerning with the coming and ascension of Jesus and His future rule, etc.

It matters.

 

[Extraneous]

Are you following or believing Christ?

I guess God knows.

 

[Strong in Him]

Remember man is involved in writing. Hearing is more spiritual than reading and recording.

Humans are involved in writing everything - even the book you like to regularly quote from. As far as I'm aware, the only document which people claim came straight from heaven; dictated to someone in a trance who had no control over what he wrote, is the book of Mormon.

Being written by a human being does not automatically mean it wasn't inspired by God and cannot be trusted. And I don't agree with you that "hearing is more spiritual than reading and recording" - which doesn't even really make sense. I imagine you're trying to say that the Gospels, written by eyewitnesses who heard Jesus teach, are more reliable than the epistles - but that's not true either.
If you say to us, "I heard God tell me that Paul is false"; how do we know that is true? How would you prove to us that a) you heard a definite voice and b) that it was God and not your subconscious? I'm not saying that you're saying this, I'm trying to give an example. In the same way, if I said to you, "well God spoke to me last night, assured me that Paul's writings are true, and told me to tell you to accept them" - how would you know that that was from God? By your own words, it's "more spiritual" than the Bible; it's even "more spiritual" than my writing about it on here! But if everyone were to go around saying, "X says they heard from God; whatever they say must be true because God spoke", then we'd all start believing all sorts of things and would change our faith every 5 minutes whenever anyone else came up with a new message.

We need to test prophecies and test the spirits to discern what is from God and what isn't. And the way we test them is by reading and finding out what has already been revealed in Scripture - writings inspired by the Spirit of truth who reveals Jesus, the truth, to us and who does not make mistakes. Accept that or not; that's how it is. Arguing that it should not be that way, won't change anything.

 

[Strong in Him]

Remember Luke is the only Gentile writer in the entire Bible. Yet as far as the NT is concerned, he is more balanced spiritually than Paul because he relied on others instead of his own inventions.

As well as being a historian, Luke was Paul's comp[anion and doctor. So I would say that when he wrote his Gospel, and Acts, he not only had his own research to hand, but Paul's teachings and sayings.

The only reason you have for saying that Paul relied on his own inventions is that you feel you cannot not trust him - except for sometimes, when you agree with him.

 

[Strong in Him]

I don't think there is any hidden wisdom in their letters. Meat (food) is in the words of Jesus.

Don't you even trust those who heard the words of Jesus? So what's with the view that "hearing is more spiritual than reading/recording"?

 

[Strong in Him]

I agree. Many don't even like many statements of Paul. They pick and choose, for convenient theology.

Sorry, but with respect, isn't this exactly what you are doing?
You say that Paul was called by Jesus, that he was his chosen one, was a saint and that sometimes you agree with, and quote, his words. Then Paul writes, "I was chosen by Christ to be an apostle", and you say, "it is not recorded anywhere that Jesus said to Paul 'you are my apostle', so Paul must have made that claim himself. Therefore, he was self appointed, therefore he was arrogant, told white lies and had his own agenda."
You have just said that "hearing is more spiritual than reading or recording"! The phrase "you are my apostle" has not been recorded in Scripture - though Paul may well have heard it. But because of that, you are dismissing many of Paul's words.

 

[nomadictheist]

Remember Luke is the only Gentile writer in the entire Bible. Yet as far as the NT is concerned, he is more balanced spiritually than Paul because he relied on others instead of his own inventions.

And your point is? Luke is still a gospel.

The Word became flesh. We don't go after the flesh. It is spiritually accepting the Word through His words and leading an obedient life (blood denotes life). If you followed Jesus' words, there cannot be any external ritual with elements associated with this.

Jesus said we must eat His flesh and drink His blood. He then demonstrated how it is that we do that in the last supper when He declared the bread to be His flesh and the wine to be His blood. Again, I'll go with Jesus.

This is a concept developed to accommodate Paul with his self-claims.

No, it's not. It's Paul dealing with sin in the church.

Jesus called twelve apart among number of disciples. So you are telling Jesus to number them 1, 2, 3 and call them accordingly. But you accept Paul's numbering as 1(a) and 1(b).[ apostles for Jews and Gentiles] Very funny!

No, I'm not telling Jesus to do anything. You're telling Jesus to call Paul an apostle, using that word specifically. I'm telling you that you need to show where Jesus called anyone an apostle, using that word specifically. Jesus called Paul His chosen vessel to carry the gospel to the Jews and the gentiles alike.

Yeah, he abolished brotherly sharing of food in communal (common) meal that was there in Jerusalem church, and advocated sampling bread and wine ritual.

Evidence, please. Cite your source. This is just your own self-claim.

If you read the Acts according to Thomas and Peter and other apocryphal books, it may give you an hint on what the chosen apostles were practicing with proper emphasis on baptism and communion.

That's really rich. You tell me I should reject everything written by Paul and Luke, and then point me toward the Acts according to Thomas and the Acts according to Peter. You tell me I should reject everything written by the early church fathers - yet you point me to apocryphal books that have been rejected by the church since it's early days.

I'll stick to the Canon of scripture that was chosen in the same way all major decisions were made in the early church - through much prayer, dependence on the Spirit, and discussion among the church leaders.

 

[nomadictheist]

You cannot demonstrate the calling that was about 2000 years ago. Even James who was the Bishop of Jerusalem Church did not claim to be an apostle in his letter because he knew Jesus called twelve and the lost one has been replaced. Jude followed suit.



There you have it. Credentials cannot be self-claims. It should be given by others with authority connected with it.

And Paul's weren't. As has already been demonstrated from scripture, Paul is attested to by (1) Jesus Christ, (2) the Holy Spirit, and (3) the apostles and church leaders of His day, including a specific commendation by the apostle Peter. By calling him a false prophet, you defame every witness who commends him as well.

 

[Righttruth]

It matters.

In what way concerning our salvation?

 

[Righttruth]

I guess God knows.

One should know the difference between following and believing. We cannot pass the buck to God.

 

[Extraneous]

In what way concerning our salvation?

I cant say if it matters in that way or not, but it matters for other reasons. The scriptures are Gods gift to us, to help us in our struggles, to give us hope.