Ten Commandments still valid so says Bible and pro-Sunday Scholars

[Sophrosyne]

Keep your eyes open...

Plenty open..... otherwise I would have been suckered in by people from cults coming to my door.

 

[BobRyan]

The Bible is clear and we have the testimony that God accepts people in different places of understanding Truth. .

Hence - "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
And -- "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus".
And -- "IF you LOVE Me -- KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15
And -- "Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Exodus 20:6

Where - "The FIRST Commandment with a promise" is the 5th Commandment - Eph 6:2

Heb 4:9 - "there REMAINS therefore a SABBATH rest for the people of God"
Rev 14:7 "Worship Him who MADE the heavens and the earth and the springs of water"

And for all eternity AFTER the CROSS - in the New Earth
"from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before ME to worship" Is 66:23

 

[Bob S]

The Bible is clear and we have the testimony that God accepts people in different places of understanding Truth. There were practices and customs that were done by men such as Abraham and other patriarchs but God winked in their time of ignorance, and counted them as His. One pillar of Christianity, baptism, was misused and misunderstood during the dark ages but God didn't condemn those that were, in faith doing what they knew as truth.
The Sabbath issue is no different, it is present truth for this time and as truth is progressive, apparently, won't be a salvational issue til the Sunday Law crisis occurs but I'm not taking my chances. I have been convinced in my heart that this is right, therefore, to not do it would be sin for me. You and everyone else will be judged by what God has laid on your hearts.

Didn't I show you several quotes from your prophet that says those who so not keep Sabbath will go t hell? Those statements had nothing to do with the Sunday laws. Yet you didn't accept the prophets warning and continue to proclaim: "won't be a salvational issue til the Sunday Law crisis occurs". I know you have not believed anything I have presented on the forum, but when it comes from your prophet how could you not believe what I have presented?

I happen to know many things the prophet wrote and I had to unlearn most of it because of her ignorance.

 

[FredVB]

Actually it is.... since adventists have told me that if one is ignorant about the sabbath commandment then they are not damned by not keeping it but once they have been told then they are damned so in a sense not being told about the sabbath is a good thing. In other words ignorance of sinning is a good thing.

That would rather be like saying Christ should not be made known with the gospel where it hasn't reached, because people in ignorance are better off that way, not being subject to being judged for what they know. But many would perish, none who were responsive to God so that they wouldn't are going to perish with the gospel made known there. Many more won't perish with that, yet still those who do perish will have greater judgment for the knowledge of the gospel and Christ that they had with this.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Didn't I show you several quotes from your prophet that says those who so not keep Sabbath will go t hell? Those statements had nothing to do with the Sunday laws. Yet you didn't accept the prophets warning and continue to proclaim: "won't be a salvational issue til the Sunday Law crisis occurs". I know you have not believed anything I have presented on the forum, but when it comes from your prophet how could you not believe what I have presented?

I happen to know many things the prophet wrote and I had to unlearn most of it because of her ignorance.

We both know Ellen White never advocated "hell" for sinners... being lost, suffering the second death etc. but not eternally burning hell.

 

[bbbbbbb]

That would rather be like saying Christ should not be made known with the gospel where it hasn't reached, because people in ignorance are better off that way, not being subject to being judged for what they know. But many would perish, none who were responsive to God so that they wouldn't are not going to perish with the gospel made known there. Many more won't perish with that, yet still those who do perish will have greater judgment for the knowledge of the gospel and Christ that they had with this.

Good point. A number of denominations have painted theirselves into this corner. The critical issue is the concept that a "fair" God cannot condemn someone for what he is ignorant of. That is the issue that Paul deals with in the first chapter of Romans.

 

[Sophrosyne]

That would rather be like saying Christ should not be made known with the gospel where it hasn't reached, because people in ignorance are better off that way, not being subject to being judged for what they know. But many would perish, none who were responsive to God so that they wouldn't are going to perish with the gospel made known there. Many more won't perish with that, yet still those who do perish will have greater judgment for the knowledge of the gospel and Christ that they had with this.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that we can be saved apart from the Gospel.... nowhere. While it may be possible that God may accept those who never heard the Gospel to teach salvation without it is irresponsible. We contrast this teaching that ignorance of the Sabbath is a good thing (according to those who proclaim it is salvic) vs ignorance of the Gospel is almost guaranteed damning. We see no scripture that equates we must teach keeping of the Sabbath for Christians while we DO see a demand from God to preach the Gospel even at the cost of one's own life.

 

[BobRyan]

Sophrosyne said:
Actually it is.... since adventists have told me that if one is ignorant about the sabbath commandment then they are not damned by not keeping it but once they have been told then they are damned so in a sense not being told about the sabbath is a good thing. In other words ignorance of sinning is a good thing.

That would rather be like saying Christ should not be made known with the gospel where it hasn't reached, because people in ignorance are better off that way, not being subject to being judged for what they know. But many would perish, none who were responsive to God so that they wouldn't are going to perish with the gospel made known there. Many more won't perish with that, yet still those who do perish will have greater judgment for the knowledge of the gospel and Christ that they had with this.

That is true. You may be stating "the obvious" but at times that is what is called for on these threads.

Thanks!

 

[BobRyan]

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that we can be saved apart from the Gospel.... nowhere.

"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
And -- "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus".
And -- "IF you LOVE Me -- KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15
And -- "Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Exodus 20:6

Where - "The FIRST Commandment with a promise" is the 5th Commandment - Eph 6:2

Heb 4:9 - "there REMAINS therefore a SABBATH rest for the people of God"
Rev 14:7 "Worship Him who MADE the heavens and the earth and the springs of water"

And for all eternity AFTER the CROSS - in the New Earth
"from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before ME to worship" Is 66:23

Because "somewhere in the Bible" we have this regarding the subject of war against the Commandments of God -
Romans 8:4-9

Rom 8
3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the Law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

 

[Bob S]

We both know Ellen White never advocated "hell" for sinners... being lost, suffering the second death etc. but not eternally burning hell.

Did I indicate that those not fit for Heaven would burn in hell forever? Why did you assume that I meant forever?

What is the opposite of Heaven? What is the opposite of eternal salvation? How about "cannot be saved"?



"It means eternal salvation to keep the Sabbath holy unto the Lord. God says: "Them that honor Me I will honor." (6T 356.4)


"But if we turn aside from the fourth commandment, so positively given by God, to adopt the inventions of Satan, voiced and acted by men under his control, we cannot be saved. We cannot with safety receive his traditions and subtleties as truth." (RH, July 6, 1897 par. 4)


"No one who disregards the fourth commandment, after becoming enlightened in regard to the claims of the Sabbath, can be held guiltless in the sight of God."( RH, July 6, 1897 par. 14)


as you can plainly see Ellen went from no one could be saved who didn't observe the day to "after becoming enlightened". One more slip concerning her writings. She could not remember what she had written previously. so in many instances we spoke out of both sides of her mouth. And the irony of it all is that otherwise intelligent people still believe she was a real prophet, too bad.

 

[Sophrosyne]

"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
And -- "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus".
And -- "IF you LOVE Me -- KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15
And -- "Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Exodus 20:6

Where - "The FIRST Commandment with a promise" is the 5th Commandment - Eph 6:2

Heb 4:9 - "there REMAINS therefore a SABBATH rest for the people of God"
Rev 14:7 "Worship Him who MADE the heavens and the earth and the springs of water"

And for all eternity AFTER the CROSS - in the New Earth
"from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before ME to worship" Is 66:23

Because "somewhere in the Bible" we have this regarding the subject of war against the Commandments of God -
Romans 8:4-9

Rom 8
3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the Law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

That isn't the Gospel.... one isn't saved by "not murdering" another.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Did I indicate that those not fit for Heaven would burn in hell forever? Why did you assume that I meant forever?

What is the opposite of Heaven? What is the opposite of eternal salvation? How about "cannot be saved"?



"It means eternal salvation to keep the Sabbath holy unto the Lord. God says: "Them that honor Me I will honor." (6T 356.4)


"But if we turn aside from the fourth commandment, so positively given by God, to adopt the inventions of Satan, voiced and acted by men under his control, we cannot be saved. We cannot with safety receive his traditions and subtleties as truth." (RH, July 6, 1897 par. 4)


"No one who disregards the fourth commandment, after becoming enlightened in regard to the claims of the Sabbath, can be held guiltless in the sight of God."( RH, July 6, 1897 par. 14)


as you can plainly see Ellen went from no one could be saved who didn't observe the day to "after becoming enlightened". One more slip concerning her writings. She could not remember what she had written previously. so in many instances we spoke out of both sides of her mouth. And the irony of it all is that otherwise intelligent people still believe she was a real prophet, too bad.

The reason they believe is pride.... they have a lot invested in the Sabbath keeping etc stuff and I'm guessing many go around trying to convince others that they are wrong and need to keep the Sabbath and if suddenly they realize.... oops! I was wrong and think now I have to go apologize to everyone that I castigated over the Sabbath.... heaven forbid. It is easier to believe a lie and save face than to admit you lied and lose face.

 

[FredVB]

That is true. You may be stating "the obvious" but at times that is what is called for on these threads.
Thanks!

It is, and much of what I post through CF, when I do, I think would be obvious, to many believers anyway, but just about invariably there is someone who will contest what I post.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that we can be saved apart from the Gospel.... nowhere. While it may be possible that God may accept those who never heard the Gospel to teach salvation without it is irresponsible. We contrast this teaching that ignorance of the Sabbath is a good thing (according to those who proclaim it is salvic) vs ignorance of the Gospel is almost guaranteed damning. We see no scripture that equates we must teach keeping of the Sabbath for Christians while we DO see a demand from God to preach the Gospel even at the cost of one's own life.

It isn't quite that. We should have the gospel spread. But as it is said in the second epistle of Peter, Yahweh God is not willing that any should perish, and it is then the case that all have opportunity in some way to repent. There isn't salvation in fact apart from Christ, with all he has done for us. God gives opportunity from this for any to respond to what is shown them, to repent from sin in their lives made known to them. It has been available this way from old testament times. But many more respond with the gospel of Christ made known, and many more are saved this way, so the gospel of Christ for salvation should spread. The general case that we can extrapolate from this is that it is not good to have truth suppressed. Observing Sabbath rest won't save individuals, but it was meant for us, I find it is good to do, as it was said for us.

 

[BobRyan]

Observing Sabbath rest won't save individuals, but it was meant for us, I find it is good to do, as it was said for us.

Well said - and the same is true for Eph 6:2 "honor your father and mother" --

This point is irrefutable.

 

[Bob S]

FredVB said: ↑
Observing Sabbath rest won't save individuals, but it was meant for us, I find it is good to do, as it was said for us.

Well said - and the same is true for Eph 6:2 "honor your father and mother" --
This point is irrefutable.

What do you mean "well said"? Your church tells us we must observe Sabbath or loose our eternal life. I don't see Fred telling us that.

Are you fixated on Eph 6:2? If you love like Jesus loves us you will honor your parents. Honoring parents is part of the law of love.

 

[Sophrosyne]

What do you mean "well said"? Your church tells us we must observe Sabbath or loose our eternal life. I don't see Fred telling us that.

Are you fixated on Eph 6:2? If you love like Jesus loves us you will honor your parents. Honoring parents is part of the law of love.

Actually it is against the rules to outright say that one must keep the Law in order to be saved that is why people avoid directly saying that it isn't because they don't believe that but because they don't want to lose their chance to sucker folks into following them in their quest to "save themselves" via keeping commandments.

 

[BobRyan]

Observing Sabbath rest won't save individuals, but it was meant for us, I find it is good to do, as it was said for us.

Well said - and the same is true for Eph 6:2 "honor your father and mother" --

This point is irrefutable.

What do you mean "well said"?

what do you mean -- what do you mean ... well said???

"The same is true for Eph 6:2" honoring your parents.

As James 2 points out - the same is true for all the Commandments of God.

Why do you respond as if James 2 is new to you??

 

[bugkiller]

It is, and much of what I post through CF, when I do, I think would be obvious, to many believers anyway, but just about invariably there is someone who will contest what I post.



It isn't quite that. We should have the gospel spread. But as it is said in the second epistle of Peter, Yahweh God is not willing that any should perish, and it is then the case that all have opportunity in some way to repent. There isn't salvation in fact apart from Christ, with all he has done for us. God gives opportunity from this for any to respond to what is shown them, to repent from sin in their lives made known to them. It has been available this way from old testament times. But many more respond with the gospel of Christ made known, and many more are saved this way, so the gospel of Christ for salvation should spread. The general case that we can extrapolate from this is that it is not good to have truth suppressed. Observing Sabbath rest won't save individuals, but it was meant for us, I find it is good to do, as it was said for us.

This causes me to wonder. Do you mean if one is exposed to the 4th commandment and doesn't keep it they can't be saved?

Are you saying God doesn't love me and wish to fellowship with me? Isn't that against the Scripture?

Why is it I have no desire to keep the Sabbath?

Why wouldn't God put that in my heart or give me that desire?

I believe God told me directly by voice (The Holy Spirit) that wasn't my covenant. Are you saying I'm listening to a devil? How can you discount my personal experience and testimony?

bugkiller

 

[Bob S]

We both know Ellen White never advocated "hell" for sinners... being lost, suffering the second death etc. but not eternally burning hell.

Did I imply eternal burning hell? Why do you try to put words in my mouth that are not there?

 

[Bob S]

Actually it is against the rules to outright say that one must keep the Law in order to be saved that is why people avoid directly saying that it isn't because they don't believe that but because they don't want to lose their chance to sucker folks into following them in their quest to "save themselves" via keeping commandments.

Good point.