How many creationist here think that atheism and evolution go together?

[In situ]

The problem is they do not know or understand what is true when it comes to the Bible or religion.

I do not agree with your analysis of the problem. The problem is that others make the same claims, e.g. Islam. So if you do not know or do not understand, then how do you tell? What you call a problem is actually the symptom - it is not a cause but a consequence.

The cause to the problem boils down to how we validate claims made. Like you said "militant atheist" don't understand. If that is the case then I think it is perfectly reasonable if someone ask you to explain how one is supposed to validate your claims.

Giving a definition on what shall be validated is then only the first step in this process.
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[In situ]

I don't think you quite grasped my point about meaningfulness, in suti.

I beg a difference. This is why I wrote "you may not like the answer or feel satisfied with it". The reasons someone says that science cannot answer this or that questions most often boils down to that it is not "enough". You pretty much said this your self and because of that you claimed science cannot answer your particular questions.

I am fine with and understand why some people may not feel satisfied with the answer science gives and I am fine with that people tries to find answers in religion to to complete the answers they are looking for.

It is no up to me, you or anyone else to tell what is an enough answer for someone. We all have different demands and needs.

However I am not fine with people who claims science cannot answer their favorite question or people who claim science "lies" or is a lie just because they don't like the answer.

If you don't like the answer science make then either you do go science and prove everyone wrong in per review journals and then goes on and collect the Nobel Price in science (this is many time the reason these guys won the price in the first place) or you accept it. Dislike it as much you want, but if you looking for truth you need to accept it! However what you do not do is to lobby school and policy makers and try make them teach children your ideas in science classes as in the case with creationism and ID.

You cant vote about what is true.... but you can dislike it.

I understand we don't live in a pretty world and I understand why people may not like to think about it. Religion is a way to make the ugly world looks a little bit more prettier. I understand that... But do you?

 

[joshua 1 9]

I think this it is not a question of what qualities science has but how you validate the qualities. For instance anyone can claim to possess "the truth"- but how do you validate such claim? I.e. how do you validate what you refere to as "true science" ?

(The definition you gave would match what I call "science" and "applied science", in where science deal with what is not understood and applied science (e.g. engineering) deals with that we do understand).

Noah's Ark was applied Science. In the beginning of the Neolithic Revolution applied science is what made civilization and farming possible. We do not know for sure what the forbidden fruit was but the oral tradition is that we are talking about apples. In order to produce an apple tree you have to graft in a branch from a different tree. This in effect was the first attempt at GM foods. With a warning from God that if you eat food from this tree the end result will be death. The battle over GM food continues today.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Noah's Ark was applied Science. In the beginning of the Neolithic Revolution applied science is what made civilization and farming possible. We do not know for sure what the forbidden fruit was but the oral tradition is that we are talking about apples. In order to produce an apple tree you have to graft in a branch from a different tree. This in effect was the first attempt at GM foods. With a warning from God that if you eat food from this tree the end result will be death. The battle over GM food continues today.

How was it "applied science"? I thought that you believed in a local version of the flood myth. In a local version there would be no need for an Ark. Humanity would have survived, as would almost all animal species. Maybe one or two minor local species would have been wiped out and that would be it.

 

[joshua 1 9]

So if you do not know or do not understand, then how do you tell?

Jesus warns us that: "false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect." On the day of Pentecost the Holy Spirit was given to the Church. We need the Holy Spirit of God to guide us, teach us and to lead us into the truth. We can not turn to man for help, we can only depend on God to help us. This is why people talk about having a relationship with God. They talk about being born again and having the mind of Christ and the Divine thoughts of God. This is what makes Christians different from non Christians. Easter was the resurrection, the day of Pentecost comes 50 days later. The very first Pentecost was about 1985 years ago. So we are getting very close to the 2000 year birthday or anniversary of the church. This is the new covenant when the Holy Spirit was first given. You ask how can we know. The Bible says we can know because the truth will set us free. Lies and deception results in bondage. For those who are saved the resurrection power of God is already at work in their lives.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Jesus warns us that: "false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect." On the day of Pentecost the Holy Spirit was given to the Church. We need the Holy Spirit of God to guide us, teach us and to lead us into the truth. We can not turn to man for help, we can only depend on God to help us. This is why people talk about having a relationship with God. They talk about being born again and having the mind of Christ and the Divine thoughts of God. This is what makes Christians different from non Christians. Easter was the resurrection, the day of Pentecost comes 50 days later. The very first Pentecost was about 1985 years ago. So we are getting very close to the 2000 year birthday or anniversary of the church. This is the new covenant when the Holy Spirit was first given. You ask how can we know. The Bible says we can know because the truth will set us free. Lies and deception results in bondage. For those who are saved the resurrection power of God is already at work in their lives.

Sorry, but now you are merely becoming hysterical. Try to relax and think logically and not emotionally.

 

[joshua 1 9]

How was it "applied science"? I thought that you believed in a local version of the flood myth. In a local version there would be no need for an Ark. Humanity would have survived, as would almost all animal species. Maybe one or two minor local species would have been wiped out and that would be it.

Do you know what the Neolithic Revolution is? Let me give you the Wiki definition:

"The Neolithic revolution was the first agricultural revolution. It was a gradual change from nomadic hunting and gathering communities and bands to agriculture and settlement. This period is described as a "revolution" because it changed the way of life of communities which made the change."

I think perhaps you are not grasping the concept of what is involved for mankind to go through the change from food gathering to food producing. Given our history I do not much feel inclined to try to explain it to you because of your attitude. It would take a degree of communication that we simply do not have.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Do you know what the Neolithic Revolution is? Let me give you the Wiki definition:

"The Neolithic revolution was the first agricultural revolution. It was a gradual change from nomadic hunting and gathering communities and bands to agriculture and settlement. This period is described as a "revolution" because it changed the way of life of communities which made the change."

I think perhaps you are not grasping the concept of what is involved for mankind to go through the change from food gathering to food producing. Given our history I do not much feel inclined to try to explain it to you because of your attitude. It would take a degree of communication that we simply do not have.

It is still not "applied science". You need to learn what science is in the first place. And please, don't blame others for your poor communication skills. Plus why did you even refer to that? The neolithic revolution has nothing to do with your flood myth. You misused a term and now you are complaining because you were caught. You should merely acknowledge your error and move on.

And you never even tried to answer my question. That seems to indicate even you know that you are wrong.

 

[joshua 1 9]

The reasons someone says that science cannot not answer this or that questions most often boils down to that it is not "enough".

I was in the construction business for around 50 years. There was never a job that I could not finish. You just keep working on the problem until you find the solution. There is usually an easy way and a hard way and often what looks easy turns out to be the hard way. You have to find real answers in the real world and often that involves having to predict the future.

 

[AV1611VET]

You have to find real answers in the real world and often that involves having to predict the future.

Predicting the future and calculating the future are two different things, aren't they?

"Predicting" the future sounds more like a spiritual exercise than a mundane one.

 

[joshua 1 9]

It is still not "applied science". You need to learn what science is in the first place. And please, don't blame others for your poor communication skills. Plus why did you even refer to that? The neolithic revolution has nothing to do with your flood myth. You misused a term and now you are complaining because you were caught. You should merely acknowledge your error and move on.

And you never even tried to answer my question. That seems to indicate even you know that you are wrong.

I am not blaming you for anything, I simply offer an explanation for why I don't try to answer your questions. I am not referring to you but there are people on here that love to badger people with inane questions. The world puts people into bondage but with God we can be set free.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Predicting the future and calculating the future are two different things, aren't they?

"Predicting" the future sounds more like a spiritual exercise than a mundane one.

In construction it has to do with experience and using the right materials. If I buy a one coat paint the last thing I want to have to do is put on two coats of paint. That would be twice the work and I am bidding a job ahead of time so I am locked in on what I will get paid. Building codes help a lot and I get along real good with the inspectors. They try to avoid as many future problems as they can.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I am not blaming you for anything, I simply offer an explanation for why I don't try to answer your questions. I am not referring to you but there are people on here that love to badger people with inane questions. The world puts people into bondage but with God we can be set free.

You made a claim that showed your ignorance. I tried to make you see that. And please, when you have been spewing inanities you should never accuse others of asking inane questions. When someone corrects an error of yours the proper thing to do is to thank them, acknowledge the error, and move on.

 

[JonFromMinnesota]

When someone corrects an error of yours the proper thing to do is to thank them, acknowledge the error, and move on.

Some can't fathom the possibility of being wrong and go to great lengths to protect their beliefs.

 

[In situ]

So, why bother to do anything if it is all going to go up in smoke soon enough anyway?

So it is all about you? Are you trying to say that the answer needs to be about you or else it is not an answer?

If you don't like it? To bad...

Btw, making kids is doing something - it is called having sex. Why do you object to the meaning of life being "having sex"?

 

[In situ]

Some can't fathom the possibility of being wrong and go to great lengths to protect their beliefs.

I cant even phantom being right. That would be awesome. Oh wait a scond.... some religious people claim they are right and know the truth and based one their behavior (blowing them self up etc) I am not sure I want to be right.

 

[In situ]

Predicting the future and calculating the future are two different things, aren't they?

It is more proper to say they are not equivalent.

 

[In situ]

Noah's Ark was applied Science.

Interresting you would say that. They tested the boat shape - and it would fall apart in the first wave....

 

[joshua 1 9]

Interresting you would say that. They tested the boat shape - and it would fall apart in the first wave....

There is some controversy over the size of the Ark. They do not feel that it would be possible to build a wood boat that big. It was the same length as the The longest wooden ship ever built, the six-masted New England gaff Schooner Wyoming. That ship did not fall apart.

 

[In situ]

The battle over GM food continues today.

Well, that is very interesting.

However, I did made a comment on a discussion you had about the meaning of the word "science". I suggested that maybe it was not what science meant but how one can tell it is science or not that was asked for. In your reply to me you sweep over subject such as Noah's ark, Eden, the raise of agriculture, gene modified food, and probably some more topics which I cant bother to identify. My point is; I don't see in what way these subjects are, even remotely, relevant to my suggestion. Did you replay to someone else and just quoted me by mistake?