How Long is an Hour?

[Riberra]

It seems so obvious, doesn't it BAB? We have dozens of scriptures where 1000 is not literal, and dozens of verses that tell us the world ends when Christ returns,

The end of that AGE...not the end of the world.

and not a single passage that says Christ will reign on earth for 1000 years, yet this one nebulous passage in Revelation 20 blinds them all.

It's amazing really if you think about it. The mind believes what it wants to believe.

Then you are suggesting that we shoud ignore what is written in Revelation 20.
Lets play with that and see the consequences:
If we ignore what is written
!-Satan will not be bound into the the bottomless pit during a thousand years.
2-Satan will not be released after the 1,000 years to deceive the nations again
3-Satan will not be cast into the lake of fire after the 1,000 years
4-There is no Great White Throne Judgement after the 1,000 years

If we ignore the thousand years reign of Jesus on the Earth -until- He give the Kingdom to His Father we get:
5-
Jesus will come physically in power and glory Matthew 24:29-31 for the battle of Armageddon described in Revelation 19 but Jesus will never reign physically on the Earth with those described in Revelation 20:4-6

Is that what you believe ?

 

[stephen583]

I see. So an Hour in scripture = 41.6 years unless and except where you say it doesn't.

Wrong again. It's not up to me when a word is used figuratively, metaphorically, or symbolically. There are plenty of Bible Commentary resources on-line that explain that sort of thing, all you have to do is research it. I'd start out with Gill's Exposition of the Bible, it seems pretty thorough. I also like Matthew Henry, although there are about a half dozen or so others to select from.

 

[stephen583]

Are you saying he was wrong?

No. John was not wrong. The Apocalypse has always been a present event ever since the resurrection of Christ. The word "Apocalypse" is not related to any specific time frame. The word "Apocalypse" is defined as a "time of revelation", or "a period of time, in which end time events unfold and are revealed". If you don't like using Bible Commentary sources, the same definition of the word Apocalypse appears in Webster's Dictionary and on Wikipedia.

That's why CF permits "Partial Preterist" views in this forum. The fulfillment of End Time Bible prophecy spans the entire last two thousand years plus of history, including the time of the Early Church in the first century A.D. End Time Bible prophecy has also been fulfilled in recent historic times, and it will be fulfilled in the future. It's not entirely unheard of in eschatology, to suggest a prophecy can be relevant to all three of these eras' at the same time. Of course, I'm referring to mainstream Christian theology.

 

[random person]

The end of that AGE...not the end of the world.


Then you are suggesting that we shoud ignore what is written in Revelation 20.
Lets play with that and see the consequences:
If we ignore what is written
!-Satan will not be bound into the the bottomless pit during a thousand years.
2-Satan will not be released after the 1,000 years to deceive the nations again
3-Satan will not be cast into the lake of fire after the 1,000 years
4-There is no Great White Throne Judgement after the 1,000 years

If we ignore the thousand years reign of Jesus on the Earth -until- He give the Kingdom to His Father we get:
5-
Jesus will come physically in power and glory Matthew 24:29-31 for the battle of Armageddon described in Revelation 19 but Jesus will never reign physically on the Earth with those described in Revelation 20:4-6

Is that what you believe ?

he gives up the kingdom to the father?

what about isaiah 9:6-7?
what about daniel 2:44?
what about daniel 7:13-14?
what about matthew 25:31 (when does the sitting begin and when does the sitting end???)?
what about luke 1:31-33?
what about ephesians 3:21?
what about revelation 22:3?

 

[random person]

he gives up the kingdom to the father?

what about isaiah 9:6-7?
what about daniel 2:44?
what about daniel 7:13-14?
what about matthew 25:31 (when does the sitting begin and when does the sitting end???)?
what about luke 1:31-33?
what about ephesians 3:21?
what about revelation 22:3?

1 corinthians 15:24 is speaking about matthew 21:43, 1 thessalonians 4:16-17, hebrews 8:13, hebrews 9:8, hebrews 10:9, 1 corinthians 15:54-56, and revelation 20:4

check the greek on "delivers up" @ http://biblehub.com/text/1-corinthians/15-24.htm

 

[Postvieww]

There is literally Zero scripture in the Old Testament which mentions a reign of Christ upon the earth, for 1,000 years.
The number 1,000 has been used symbolically in other places in scripture as a large number.


Psa_50:10 For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.


If it were not for Revelation chapter 20, we literally would not be having this argument.

According to Revelation 11:15, Christ literally reigns "forever" at the 7th trumpet.

The famous rapture passage of 1st Thessalonians chapters 4 and 5 literally says that Christ returns on the Day of the Lord, as a thief in the night. 2nd Peter 3:10 says He literally brings in the New Heavens and the New Earth when He returns on the day of the Lord as a thief.

The 1,000 year viewpoint literally produces tremendous conflict with multiple other passages of scripture.

We can come up with a doctrine based on one chapter full of symbolic language or we can base our interpretation upon numerous other passages containing clear language, which say He will reign "forever" when He returns.



Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

How long is "forever".



2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
(He judges both those alive and dead at His appearing and His kingdom.)



Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

.

Hi Bab, My question is not meant to challenge your position but to understand it.

Please explain how you understand Rev 20:1-3, the 1000 years is not really my concern I’m more interested in how you see the binding and later loosing of satan in this passage.

 

[parousia70]

Also, in the New Heavens and New Earth, we will have just seen the Great White Throne Judgment and the damnation of the all the souls outside of Christ. We will never see them again, and we know they are destined for an excruciating eternity. Wouldn't some of these be our husbands and wives, sons and daughters, other family members, close friends? Or suppose we are ashamed at the way we lived our lives and we have little Jesus rewards us for? This time could be hard, but God will bring us through it.

So it will be hard watching our loved ones get damned for eternity but we wont be able to cry about it?

 

[parousia70]

The fulfillment of End Time Bible prophecy spans the entire last two thousand years plus of history

Which end time prophesies were fulfilled between the years 1172 - 1235?

 

[parousia70]

Wrong again. It's not up to me when a word is used figuratively, metaphorically, or symbolically. There are plenty of Bible Commentary resources on-line that explain that sort of thing, all you have to do is research it. I'd start out with Gill's Exposition of the Bible, it seems pretty thorough. I also like Matthew Henry, although there are about a half dozen or so others to select from.

Which commentary says an hour = 41.6 years?

 

[parousia70]

Wrong again. It's not up to me when a word is used figuratively, metaphorically, or symbolically.

So when the OT uses phrases such as "the Sun shall be darkened, moon turned to Blood, Mountains will melt, the earth will split in two, God rides a cloud, and was Seen by the eyes of all nations" to metaphorically describe the fall of individual nations at the hand of Human Armies, where does the Bible teach you to apply a polar opposite literal interpretation to that same language when you find it in the NT?

 

[parousia70]

Some have gone through considerable trials. Have you ever made it out of danger and immediately rebounded from the shock, fear and pain? I haven't.

me neither... of course I've never attempted such a rebound while in a perfected Sinless Body... have you? Think it might be different?

In fact, I can think of a poignant example less than two weeks ago. Once it became apparent that the Lord had protected me, it still took me a little time to relax. For awhile I thought the danger would come back (there were still risks), but God kept it at bay. To encourage myself, I read passages about the Lord not giving David into the hands of Saul. Also my friends encouraged me, and I spent time praying. Even when I had big tests in school or stresses at work, it was hard to just snap out of it once the danger is passed.

All this is well and good information/advice for us mortals living in the wicked flesh today.... do you think it will be different after we are in perfect sinless bodies? What "danger" do you believe the resurrected in Christ will still be in fear of "for a time"... and how long a time? According to the Rev passage in question, there is no terminus for the need of the healing of the nations in the new earth... It appears you have concocted some other notion that scripture does not teach.

 

[Luke17:37]

So it will be hard watching our loved ones get damned for eternity but we wont be able to cry about it?

You totally missed my point. It says, "God will wipe away every tear from their eyes" implying we may have tears to wipe away.

 

[Luke17:37]

me neither... of course I've never attempted such a rebound while in a perfected Sinless Body... have you? Think it might be different?



All this is well and good information/advice for us mortals living in the wicked flesh today.... do you think it will be different after we are in perfect sinless bodies? What "danger" do you believe the resurrected in Christ will still be in fear of "for a time"... and how long a time? According to the Rev passage in question, there is no terminus for the need of the healing of the nations in the new earth... It appears you have concocted some other notion that scripture does not teach.

Revelation 21:4
4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”

If they are crying, God will wipe their tears away, and they won't suffer any more.

If they aren't crying, great.

Back in Revelation 7:9-17, these multitudes of souls are in heaven, clothed in the white robes. They left the pain of earth (hunger, thirst, sun, heat) and (implied: death). When their souls are in the presence of the Father and the Lamb, He will wipe their tears away, and they will praise Him (Revelation 7:10). I doubt tears will last long in the presence of Jesus.

 

[Luke17:37]

me neither... of course I've never attempted such a rebound while in a perfected Sinless Body... have you? Think it might be different?



All this is well and good information/advice for us mortals living in the wicked flesh today.... do you think it will be different after we are in perfect sinless bodies? What "danger" do you believe the resurrected in Christ will still be in fear of "for a time"... and how long a time? According to the Rev passage in question, there is no terminus for the need of the healing of the nations in the new earth... It appears you have concocted some other notion that scripture does not teach.

I don't appreciate your unkind tone.

Of course there will be no more dangers or fears in the presence of Jesus.

But suppose I leave this world after being tortured and beheaded. I think then God will need to wipe away my tears when my soul arrives in heaven just because the agony I have experienced.

 

[random person]

I don't appreciate your unkind tone.

Of course there will be no more dangers or fears in the presence of Jesus.

But suppose I leave this world after being tortured and beheaded. I think then God will need to wipe away my tears when my soul arrives in heaven just because the agony I have experienced.

these passages are referencing psalms 116

but who is going to torture and behead you?

yes the babylonian harlot killed christians (revelation 17:6) but she also killed the christ (revelation 11:8, acts of the apostles 7:51-52, 1 thessalonians 2:14-16), the prophets (revelation 18:24, matthew 23:32-36, luke 13:33-34), and the apostles (revelation 18:20, luke 11:49).

 

[Luke17:37]

these passages are referencing psalms 116

but who is going to torture and behead you?

yes the babylonian harlot killed christians (revelation 17:6) but she also killed the christ (revelation 11:8, acts of the apostles 7:51-52, 1 thessalonians 2:14-16), the prophets (revelation 18:24, matthew 23:32-36, luke 13:33-34), and the apostles (revelation 18:20, luke 11:49).

I'm not sure what you believe about the Tribulation, but I believe it's a future seven years. I don't have any hope of surviving the Tribulation, which is characterized by wickedness and the slaying of Christians (Revelation 6:9-11, Daniel 11:32-35, Revelation 12:17, Revelation 13:7, Revelation 13:15, Revelation 14:9-13, Revelation 16:6, Revelation 17:6, Revelation 18:20, Revelation 18:24, Revelation 20:4-6). Some Christians will survive until Jesus' return, but probably only the 144,000 (Revelation 7:1-8, Revelation 14:1-5) plus mostly Israelite converts in the Tribulation (Zechariah 13:8-9, Hosea 5:14 - Hosea 6:3, Romans 11:24-26).

Therefore, if God doesn't take my life first, it's not hard to imagine being beheaded in the Tribulation. And since men are very wicked, I could see them torturing me first. I imagine the impact of this emotional and physical trauma would result in arriving in heaven with tears Jesus needs to wipe away.

 

[random person]

I'm not sure what you believe about the Tribulation, but I believe it's a future seven years. I don't have any hope of surviving the Tribulation, which is characterized by wickedness and the slaying of Christians (Revelation 6:9-11, Daniel 11:32-35, Revelation 12:17, Revelation 13:7, Revelation 13:15, Revelation 14:9-13, Revelation 16:6, Revelation 17:6, Revelation 18:20, Revelation 18:24, Revelation 20:4-6). Some Christians will survive until Jesus' return, but probably only the 144,000 (Revelation 7:1-8, Revelation 14:1-5) plus mostly Israelite converts in the Tribulation (Zechariah 13:8-9, Hosea 5:14 - Hosea 6:3, Romans 11:24-26).

Therefore, if God doesn't take my life first, it's not hard to imagine being beheaded in the Tribulation. And since men are very wicked, I could see them torturing me first. I imagine the impact of this emotional and physical trauma would result in arriving in heaven with tears Jesus needs to wipe away.

pure nonsense god avenged the blood of the lamb, the blood of the prophets, the blood of the apostles.

where are your prophets today? (and i am not talking about your montanism looniness found in the charismatic movement)

where are your apostles today?

there are only two cities that sit on seven hills that suffer the bloodguilt of murdering apostles... rome and jerusalem... luke 11:49 identifies which one

but there is only one city that sits on seven hills that suffers the bloodguilt of murdering the prophets see matthew 23:32-36 & luke 11:50-51 & luke 13:33-34

 

[ewq1938]

I'm not sure what you believe about the Tribulation, but I believe it's a future seven years.

Christ said it was shortened and then we see in Rev it is 42 months or 3.5 years so it's now half the original amount of time.

 

[Riberra]

UNTIL He gives/delivers up the kingdom to the father?

(when does the sitting begin and when does the sitting end???)?

-The sitting will begin soon after that Jesus will set foot upon the mount of Olives, (Zechariah 14:4).

-The sitting will end After the Great White Throne Judgement at the End of the Millennium...when Jesus will have put/destroyed all His enemies (Satan and the sinners) under his feet including death...1 Corinthians 15:24-28 = Revelation 20:7-15 .

-Then the Kingdom of God the Father will be established on the New Earth for Eternity (Revelation 21, Revelation 22).

 

[Luke17:37]

Christ said it was shortened and then we see in Rev it is 42 months or 3.5 years so it's now half the original amount of time.

Not necessarily.

Daniel refers to the abomination that causes desolation in middle of the week (Daniel 9:27) and also to a time, times and half a time (Daniel 12:7), to 1,290 days (Daniel 12:11) and to 1,315 days (Daniel 12:12).

It could just be that the first half of the week (0-3.5 years) are the beginning of birth pains (Matthew 24:8) and the second half (3.5 - 7 years) is more severe. My theory is that the trumpets and bowls (the worst part) will happen in one year, the seventh year, similar to the seventh day of the conquest of Jericho when they circled the city seven times as opposed to once.