Ten Commandments still valid so says Bible and pro-Sunday Scholars

[Albion]

Not sure if someone else picked up on this but you are wrong, I'm afraid. When the calendar was changed to the Gregorian, the day did not change, only the date.

And you are of the opinion that that was the only change we've had? It's not that simple, but this article will fill you in pretty well:

http://www.hope-of-israel.org/sabfloat.htm

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

And you are of the opinion that that was the only change we've had? It's not that simple, but this article will fill you in pretty well:

http://www.hope-of-israel.org/sabfloat.htm

You don't realize you disrespect God when you doubt His ability to keep something He Created, Sanctified and Hallowed...

 

[FredVB]

Not sure if someone else picked up on this but you are wrong, I'm afraid. When the calendar was changed to the Gregorian, the day did not change, only the date. The Jewish community has been keeping the seventh day for over 3500 years in different parts of the earth. It would be huge news if there was a Jewish community that challenged it.
One thing that satan has not been able to do was pervert the seven day cycle... he did try to during the French Revolution but that didn't catch on and was a sure indicator of who was behind that atheistic, debaucherous time of slaughter.

This is right, and I am aware. Calendars have gone through a number of changes, with dates when there were changes being changed on occasions. Seven day cycles were not changed with those, and observing Jews everywhere with the seven day sequence from Sabbath to Sabbath kept it, continuously, as the Bible calls for.

 

[Albion]

You don't realize you disrespect God when you doubt His ability to keep something He Created, Sanctified and Hallowed...

Or "you don't realize that you disrespect God when" Ellen G. White or Herbert W. Armstrong say something but it's doubted and....
Oh never mind.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Or "you don't realize that you disrespect God when" Ellen G. White or Herbert W. Armstrong say something but it's doubted and....
Oh never mind.

Glib deflection as usual... show me where Ellen White wrote anything doubting the authority and power of God. Statements like "God's seventh day couldn't have been preserved because man messed with it " indicates who you think has the power.

Btw, poor attempt to tack on Armstrong to who or what I read and believe, to try to discredit me...

 

[Albion]

Glib deflection as usual.

That'd be good then, right? I mean, the post I answered didn't deserve anything else, and the alternative that other people might have chosen--to return a personal attack for a personal attack--doesn't seem very nice.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Why then do you doubt that God can preserve His seven day cycle?

 

[Albion]

Why then do you doubt that God can preserve His seven day cycle?

I never have doubted that he can or could do this. But it's a pretty poor argument to say that God could have done X, therefore I have made it into an article of faith that he did do X.

 

[BobRyan]

Jesus did not do away with the Commandments, even while he freed us from the consequences of failing to keep them 100% of the time. That's an important distinction. But on the other hand, moving to Sunday worship is explicitly permitted, according to the New Testament,

If BOTH parts of that statement were "true" and could be shown from the Bible we would be in complete agreement.

1. The first part of your statement can be shown from the Bible - so fine... no problem there.

2. I have asked you to show "explicitly permitted to change the Sabbath from 7th day to first day" in the NT - and not only have never shown such a thing to exist - but you object to being asked about the sola-scriptura proof for it.

Interestingly the posts in opposition on this thread and on this entire section of the board - primarily are in opposition to your first point. The one where you actually have Bible proof for your position.

 

[BobRyan]

And you are of the opinion that that was the only change we've had? It's not that simple, but this article will fill you in pretty well:

http://www.hope-of-israel.org/sabfloat.htm

hint: no EIGHT DAY WEEK in the NT text - at all. So no matter that Pagan Rome worshiped pagan gods and had an eight day "market week" -- the NT only shows a 7 day week for Jews and Christians, and no worship of pagan gods.

Do you really think it is "mere coincidence" that all 7th day Sabbath Christians (including Seventh-day Baptists and Messianic Jews) agree that the 7th day is Saturday - and all Sunday keeping Christians agree that Christ was raised "on the FIRST day of the Week which is Sunday" -- and that all the Jews also agree to this arrangement and that all the Muslims agree with that same arrangement?

ALL the monotheistic religions agree - no matter how at odds they are with each other on everything else - AND YET you want to claim it is all just a fluke since one could “imagine” that from 63 BC when Rome captured Jerusalem to the time of Christ all the Jews “forgot” what day was Sabbath??

The Islamic week is derived from the Jewish week, as was the medieval Christian week, all of which have numbered weekdays in common. All three coincide with the Sunday through Saturday planetary week. The Islamic and Jewish weekdays begin at sunset, whereas the medieval Christian and planetary weekdays begin at the following midnight. Muslims gather for worship at a Masjid or mosque at noon on "gathering day", which corresponds to the sixth day of the Jewish and medieval Christian weeks, and to Friday of the planetary week.

1. yaum as-sabt يوم السَّبْت (sabbath day)
2. yaum al-ahad يوم الأحد (first day)
3. yaum al-ithnayn يوم الإثنين (second day)
4. yaum ath-thalatha' يوم الثُّلَاثاء (third day)
5. yaum al-arba`a' يوم الأَرْبعاء (fourth day)
6. yaum al-khamis يوم الخَمِيس (fifth day)
7. yaum al-jum`a يوم الجُمْعَة (gathering day)

http://www.islamawareness.net/Calendar/days.html

http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/calendar.html

The Calendar

Has the calendar been changed? Yes, but the weekly cycle has never been changed. The Julian calendar was in use when Jesus was on earth. The calendar, which continued in use for 15 centuries was not accurate in length of its year, for it was a quarter hour too long. By 1582, it was 10 days off. Pope Gregory initiated a change in the calendar by going to the Gregorian Calendar, and to make up for the error in the Julian calendar, 10 days were added to the calendar. In October, 1582, Thursday the 4th was followed by Friday the 15th in Italy and a few other countries. England and America changed its calendar in 1752 and Russia finally in 1914. Yet the weekly cycle was never affected. During the time that England, Russia, and Italy had different calendars, Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday were always the same in each country. [As a side note, the beginning of the year began March 1st under the Julian calendar, whereas he beginning of the year begins January 1st under the Gregorian calendar].

We do the same thing today, because every four years we change our calendar; it's called "leap year." At the end of February, we add one day every four years to our calendar. But notice the days of the week never change, it is only the number of the day that changes. For example, when that extra day is added, it might go from Thursday the 28th to Friday the 29th; the days of the week remain the same, only the numbers of the day change. There is no difference when 10 days are added to the calendar as well.



History has exact calendar records going back to Julius Caesar, several decades before Christ, and the weekly cycle has always remained intact. We have exactly the same weekly cycle today as was used in Jesus' day, and Jesus said that the day then called the Sabbath by the Jews, the seventh day of the week, was His day, the true Lord's Day. Yes, the amount of days in a month has changed, the amount of days in a year has changed, the amount of weeks in a month has changed, the amount of weeks in a year has changed, the amount of months in a year has changed. But the amount of days in a week has never changed since man was first created on earth.

It is irrefutable that Christ kept the 7th day of the week - the Sabbath Commandment as we see in Luke 4:16.

But the argument in your link is of the form "Christ could not possibly have known when the real Bible Sabbath was" -- But few Christians today believe that - and few Jews would argue that the Jews in Israel before the destruction in 70 A.D. had no clue when the Bible Sabbath was each week.


We have a record of pagan Rome having its own flip flop when it comes to the days of the week - but we have no such record for Jews doing a flip flop on the days of the week.

What is more Pagan Rome did not take over Jerusalem until around 63 B.C. This means that Jews still had plenty of "memory" at the time of Christ as to which day is the actual 7th day of the week.

Pagan Rome did not have Passover - Jews still kept Passover.
Pagan Rome did not have Pentecost - Jews still kept Pentecost.
And they still kept Sabbath.

(Why would you want to go out on this extreme "tree limb" in the first place -- none of the pro-sunday sources listed below argue that week-day-1 is the wrong day for the resurrection of Christ.)

in Christ,

Bob

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

I never have doubted that he can or could do this. But it's a pretty poor argument to say that God could have done X, therefore I have made it into an article of faith that he did do X.

You are presenting articles to me that purport to say that man somehow convoluted time when God is in control of it.... He is not the God of confusion. Little better than the contention that God needed more than 6 days to create everything.

 

[Albion]

You are presenting articles to me that purport to say that man somehow convoluted time when God is in control of it.... He is not the God of confusion. Little better than the contention that God needed more than 6 days to create everything.

So having proposed that anything God can do but hasn't done is fair game for being made a church doctrine, you've moved on to saying that anything that has happened in the course of human history must be in accord with God's will because it happened. If anything, that's a weaker argument than the first one.

 

[Sophrosyne]

So having proposed that anything God can do but hasn't done is fair game for being made a church doctrine, you've moved on to saying that anything that has happened in the course of human history must be in accord with God's will because it happened. If anything, that's a weaker argument than the first one.

That is kind of like when the mormons say that Adam and Eve sinning was a good thing because they couldn't have children till they did.

 

[FredVB]

So having proposed that anything God can do but hasn't done is fair game for being made a church doctrine, you've moved on to saying that anything that has happened in the course of human history must be in accord with God's will because it happened. If anything, that's a weaker argument than the first one.

I see the information sources which are shown in posts here that give basis to say the seven day week has been continuous, as well as such information in other places, and this suggestion for saying it is doubtful doesn't have that, while saying to say anything against the doubt is the weaker argument.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

That is kind of like when the mormons say that Adam and Eve sinning was a good thing because they couldn't have children till they did.

Yeah... it's nothing like that but thanx for playing.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Yeah... it's nothing like that but thanx for playing.

Actually it is.... since adventists have told me that if one is ignorant about the sabbath commandment then they are not damned by not keeping it but once they have been told then they are damned so in a sense not being told about the sabbath is a good thing. In other words ignorance of sinning is a good thing.

 

[BobRyan]

I see the information sources which are shown in posts here that give basis to say the seven day week has been continuous, as well as such information in other places, and this suggestion for saying it is doubtful doesn't have that, while saying to say anything against the doubt is the weaker argument.

Good point.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Actually it is.... since adventists have told me that if one is ignorant about the sabbath commandment then they are not damned by not keeping it but once they have been told then they are damned so in a sense not being told about the sabbath is a good thing. In other words ignorance of sinning is a good thing.

The Bible is clear and we have the testimony that God accepts people in different places of understanding Truth. There were practices and customs that were done by men such as Abraham and other patriarchs but God winked in their time of ignorance, and counted them as His. One pillar of Christianity, baptism, was misused and misunderstood during the dark ages but God didn't condemn those that were, in faith doing what they knew as truth.
The Sabbath issue is no different, it is present truth for this time and as truth is progressive, apparently, won't be a salvational issue til the Sunday Law crisis occurs but I'm not taking my chances. I have been convinced in my heart that this is right, therefore, to not do it would be sin for me. You and everyone else will be judged by what God has laid on your hearts.

 

[Sophrosyne]

The Bible is clear and we have the testimony that God accepts people in different places of understanding Truth. There were practices and customs that were done by men such as Abraham and other patriarchs but God winked in their time of ignorance, and counted them as His. One pillar of Christianity, baptism, was misused and misunderstood during the dark ages but God didn't condemn those that were, in faith doing what they knew as truth.
The Sabbath issue is no different, it is present truth for this time and as truth is progressive, apparently, won't be a salvational issue til the Sunday Law crisis occurs but I'm not taking my chances. I have been convinced in my heart that this is right, therefore, to not do it would be sin for me. You and everyone else will be judged by what God has laid on your hearts.

Good luck with the smoke and mirrors trying to pull the Sabbath out of a hat in the Old Testament when hats weren't the thing prior to Moses. As for this Sunday Laws bit..... I can't take this seriously as I don't see Islam as coming on board of such things.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Good luck with the smoke and mirrors trying to pull the Sabbath out of a hat in the Old Testament when hats weren't the thing prior to Moses. As for this Sunday Laws bit..... I can't take this seriously as I don't see Islam as coming on board of such things.

Keep your eyes open...