Abortion Discussion

[civilwarbuff]

Yes, Joel Barlow negotiated the Treaty of Tripoli. Yes, he is not considered a Founding Father. He was an American diplomat who had served as a military chaplin during the Revolution. However, the Treaty--including Article 11--was ratified by the United States Senate. Once a treaty is ratified it is given the weight of law.



Yes, Justice Brewer, who authored the opinion, did write that the United States is a "Christian nation." However, his statement is considered to be dicta and is given no precidential value. The late Justice Antonin Scalia, a great conservative, criticized the the Holy Trinity case as "nothing but an invitation to judicial lawmaking."

Has the decision been reversed? In not then it is what it is......reegardless of what any future justices might say.

 

[AirPo]

edit

You must be referring to the establishment clause. This only prevents the federal government from establishing a "national" religion and interfering with the free exercise of religious beliefs.....not separating church and state. You find that statement no where in the Constitution.

Yes, it's called the first amendment. And separating church and state is exactly what it is.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Yes, it's called the first amendment. And separating church and state is exactly what it is.

See above.....unless you can quote from the constitution about your "separation".

 

[AirPo]

See above.....unless you can quote from the constitution about your "separation".

Can you quote from the Constitution "freedom of religion?" I don't think so.

 

[Radrook]

At age five I was a witness to an abortion. Labor pains had caught the woman a distant family member in birth-pang distress and since she wanted to abort the baby she went to our bathroom and when it was born she drowned it in the toilet bowl.

I heard its first cries and asked and was told that it was a little cat. Then she wrapped it in newspaper and threw it into the housing projects incinerator. When my father protested that she had no right to use our apartment to commit such a crime she threatened to fetch her boyfriend to beat him up.

I guess she considered that the baby had been a mere appendage.

 

[AirPo]

At age five I was a witness to an abortion. Labor pains had caught the woman a distant family member in birth-pang distress and since she wanted to abort the baby she went to our bathroom and when it was born she drowned it in the toilet bowl.

I heard its first cries and asked and was told that it was a little cat. Then she wrapped it in newspaper and threw it into the housing projects incinerator. When my father protested that she had no right to use our apartment to commit such a crime she threatened to fetch her boyfriend to beat him up.

I guess she considered that the baby had been a mere appendage.

That's not an abortion.

 

[Radrook]

That's not an abortion.

Come to think of it, you are right. My mistake! However, the mentality which she demonstrated is similar to that of women who purposefully abort. Agreed?

 

[AirPo]

Come to think of it, you are right. My mistake! However, the mentality which she demonstrated is similar to that of women who purposefully abort. Agreed?

No.

 

[Cearbhall]

Come to think of it, you are right. My mistake! However, the mentality which she demonstrated is similar to that of women who purposefully abort. Agreed?

No...

 

[Radrook]

No.

Suppose she had provoked those labor pains via jabbing herself with a cloth hanger wire? Would that have made it an abortion. I am beginning to recall something about her purposefully provoking the labor pains.

 

[AirPo]

Suppose she had provoked those labor pains via jabbing herself with a cloth hanger wire? Would that have made it an abortion. I am beginning to recall something about her purposefully provoking the labor pains.

No.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Can you quote from the Constitution "freedom of religion?" I don't think so.

Yep, I can
.....or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,......

 

[Nic Samojluk]

Completely incorrect and untrue. Next.

Incorrect? When did we end slavery in our country? What rights did slaves have before emancipation? When did we legalize abortion in the U.S.?

 

[Nic Samojluk]

Brain activity scientifically determines life and a fetus has none until close to five months of pregnancy. Therefore it is not alive, a person, or a baby, and it cannot be murdered or killed since it is not alive. There you go. It's very simple really.

Do I have the right to destroy what someone else is building? Suppose my friend is building a home, but the electrical wiring has not been installed yet. Do I have the right to come with a wrecking ball and destroy his house?

God is the one responsible for life, what right do I have to destroy what he is building? The lack of brain in the unborn child is a false excuse and the Lord will hold responsible those destroying what he is doing.

 

[Hank77]

Good article... And it looks like the most common response for getting an abortion has changed from relationship falling apart or partner not being reliable to "I'm not ready to be a responsible person"...

Really??? Then why did you have sex in the first place???

For the same reasons people have been having sex since time began. And there has always been the same problems but now they are out in the open. Eventually light shines in the darkest of places.

How do you interpret the following biblical text?

New Living Translation
Don't you realize that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, who lives in you and was given to you by God? You do not belong to yourself, ...[1 Corinthians 6:19]

"...the Holy Spirit, who lives in you and (the Holy Spirit) was given to you by God? You do not belong to yourself,..."

Do you believe all people have been given the Holy Spirit? Who is the 'You' in this verse?

 

[Radrook]

No.

Well, in that case you have a personal and different definition for what constitutes abortion than the official one.

 

[Nic Samojluk]

A heart beat does not determine life. If it did there would be no such thing as heart transplants today. Arms fingers toes also are no indication of life

Evidently, you are not a physician. What is the first thing a doctor does check when someone is found unconscious? Isn’t the presence or absence of a heartbeat?

And how can those arms and legs grow if there is no life in the unborn. You need to brush on your biology 101! If you were my student, I would flunk you on your biology course. But as the saying goes: “Ignorance is bliss.”

 

[thesopranopiano]

Evidently, you are not a physician. What is the first thing a doctor does check when someone is found unconscious? Isn’t the presence or absence of a heartbeat?

No, they check if the person is breathing.

 

[Douglas Hendrickson]

Come on now....do we really need to go back to the Hebrew lexicon or can you admit that "knew" means before? Why would you put limits on God knowing all? He is, was and will be....It seems as though you are trying to put him in a box and limit what he knows and when he knows it.

"Knew" is past tense, that is before. I certainly did not deny that. The knowing is actually foreknowledge. I certainly do not put any limits on God knowing all. Your post doesn't seem to make much sense, address what I actually said; you must be confusing knowing with being, with existing. There is a difference between knowing something, and something existing. Even God's knowing does not imply existence at any time other than the time it actually exists. I gave the extreme example of God's knowing all Christmasses and certainly that does not mean they all exist at one time. Nor does God knowing Jeremiah mean he existed when he did not exist, just like you didn't exist two hundred years ago yet I would not say God did not know you then. I don't know where you get I am putting limits on God's knowing - please give an example of my doing that.

 

[Archivist]

Has the decision been reversed? In not then it is what it is......reegardless of what any future justices might say.

Yes, the decision is what it is. That would be dicta--the opinion of the justice that is not at all binding. A treaty, once ratified by the Senate, is given the weight of law. Dicta is not.