Why does God allow us to suffer?

[SteveB28]

Mankind lived without science for a long time and he could still live without it. People lived 88 years before science. It was only mankind's foolishness that caused him to die early. Science actually makes a mess of things. You seem to worship science, as if Its mankind savior, but i disagree. Science creates things like GMO's, biological and chemical destruction, nuclear contamination, processed food, industrial pollution, and many other such things.

Im not saying we must go back to the stone age, but i think mankind is blinded to the destructive effects of science. YOu act like its been such a great blessing, but in reality we are only destroying ourselves more.

What rot!

We have NEVER lived without science! Because'science' is nothing more than 'knowing' and we have always striven for that.

 

[SteveB28]

You need to consider this carefully -

Science works because it is convergent towards the truth.

Religion is divergent.

Why do you think that is?

 

[klatu]

So long as 'evil' exists, the Promise of the incarnation, to defeat evil and suffering remains unfulfilled. And that failure to deliver on the promise can only mean one of two things. There is no God or that tradition teaches in the name of Christ is in error. That religion exists does not or itself equal God active in the world. This very question is the reason I left the church. While not discounting the potential for God, I concluded that existing tradition, built upon an all to human theological foundation, is a wholly human construct and has nothing to do with God! Thus we remains little more than pagans with a theological spin on top. Instead of offering ultimate truth, history has left us with what is probably the ultimate self deception! Evil continues it's reign.

This is one of the hardest questions I have to answer with people, they always have a hard time understanding HOW a loving God could command all those people in the old testament to be killed. They look at the world and they see a world in pain!

WHY does God allow suffering!?

Does God truly care for and have a plan for all who have ever lived and died? These are common questions. Discover the Bible’s clear answers on this important topic.

http://www.tomorrowsworld.org/telecasts/why-does-god-allow-suffering#sthash.eDVOkq1H.dpuf

This is one of the hardest questions I have to answer with people, they always have a hard time understanding HOW a loving God could command all those people in the old testament to be killed. They look at the world and they see a world in pain!

WHY does God allow suffering!?

Does God truly care for and have a plan for all who have ever lived and died? These are common questions. Discover the Bible’s clear answers on this important topic.

http://www.tomorrowsworld.org/telecasts/why-does-god-allow-suffering#sthash.eDVOkq1H.dpuf

 

[1213]

WHY does God allow suffering!?

I think God allows it, because people wanted to know evil. That is why we are in this lesson place called death to learn what evil truly means. Those who love more good than evil and become righteous, have opportunity for eternal life with God, without evil.

And because this is just a lesson and nothing of this world can destroy our soul/spirit, we should not be afraid. Spirit is more than flesh. And flesh can be replaced, if we believe what the Bible tells. In Biblical point of view, suffering is not a problem, when it is just temporary matter.

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father. But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.
Matt. 10:28-31

 

[Locutus]

I think God allows it, because people wanted to know evil. That is why we are in this lesson place called death to learn what evil truly means. Those who love more good than evil and become righteous, have opportunity for eternal life with God, without evil.

And because this is just a lesson and nothing of this world can destroy our soul/spirit, we should not be afraid. Spirit is more than flesh. And flesh can be replaced, if we believe what the Bible tells. In Biblical point of view, suffering is not a problem, when it is just temporary matter.

What do you mean by "those who love good"? Plenty of non-Christians love good, and better still, DO good. Will they get to heaven? Or is heaven reserved for those who've made the right incantations regardless of moral worth?
If so, that is about the worst possible system for encouraging goodness.

Meantime, yeah, I'm sure all those kids dying of cancer and starvation don't find suffering a problem at all. Honestly, can hear what you're saying?

 

[Chris B]

Those who love more good than evil and become righteous, have opportunity for eternal life with God, without evil.

Those who are better placed than I might confirm, but I'm pretty sure that's not Christian doctrine.

...And flesh can be replaced, if we believe what the Bible tells. In Biblical point of view, suffering is not a problem, when it is just temporary matter...

And that version of "high spirituality" is nothing short of obnoxious, appearing as though one can dismiss the sufferings of humanity as "not important".
I've seen people die of conditions I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. and I won't wish on you.
Perhaps I'm wrong and you have held this view through significant and severe times of suffering. I would be surprised, though.

"He jests at scars that never felt a wound."

 

[Guy 1979]

God allows suffering because to be good a person has to think and do and say what is right in bad times as well as in good times. Satan is the accuser of mankind and says that if people are put into difficult enough times , those who do good will sin. This is discussed in the book of 'job' -although it is quite difficult to understand. So Satan and humans do evil , and God must allow it so that it can be seen and tested if those who trust and obey God ,and allow his spirit to live in them, will continue to do good. God helps anyone who will trust in his complete goodness to do what is right and only with his holy spirit can they do it. God is love ,and evil is from Satan and human beings.

 

[Chris B]

This is discussed in the book of 'job' -although it is quite difficult to understand. God is love ,and evil is from Satan and human beings.

I disagree. The book of Job is very clear. And whether taken literally or as a moral fable, the most horrific character is easy to spot: "it's quite difficult " only really applies to trying to come to any other conclusion.
"God is love". I don't think you'd get that from reading Job.

 

[quatona]

God allows suffering because to be good a person has to think and do and say what is right in bad times as well as in good times.

Why does God allow there to be bad times?

Satan is the accuser of mankind and says that if people are put into difficult enough times , those who do good will sin.

Why does God allow Satan to exist?
Why does God allow difficult times to exist?

So Satan and humans do evil , and God must allow it so that it can be seen and tested if those who trust and obey God ,and allow his spirit to live in them, will continue to do good.

Why would an ominiscient God have to test anything?

 

[Locutus]

God allows suffering because to be good a person has to think and do and say what is right in bad times as well as in good times.

God helps anyone who will trust in his complete goodness to do what is right and only with his holy spirit can they do it. God is love ,and evil is from Satan and human beings.

1) people who have no gods do what is right (in good times and bad) ... all the time. all over the world. please explain.

2) how does god 'help' those who trust? does he answer prayers?

 

[1213]

What do you mean by "those who love good"? Plenty of non-Christians love good, and better still, DO good. Will they get to heaven? Or is heaven reserved for those who've made the right incantations regardless of moral worth?

Please notice that I said also ”…become righteous”. According to the Bible eternal life is for righteous.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

There must happen change in person’s heart so that he becomes righteous, if one is not already righteous.

"Most assuredly, I tell you, unless one is born anew, he can't see the Kingdom of God."
John 3:3-7

Meantime, yeah, I'm sure all those kids dying of cancer and starvation don't find suffering a problem at all. Honestly, can hear what you're saying?

Of course people find many things problematic. But if person beliefs in the Bible, he should not worry about temporary things and about this life that is not even meant to last forever.

"Therefore I tell you, don't be anxious for your life, what you will eat, nor yet for your body, what you will wear. Life is more than food, and the body is more than clothing. Consider the ravens: they don't sow, they don't reap, they have no warehouse or barn, and God feeds them. How much more valuable are you than birds! Which of you by being anxious can add a cubit to his height? If then you aren't able to do even the least things, why are you anxious about the rest? Consider the lilies, how they grow. They don't toil, neither do they spin; yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. But if this is how God clothes the grass in the field, which today exists, and tomorrow is cast into the oven, how much more will he clothe you, O you of little faith? Don't seek what you will eat or what you will drink; neither be anxious. For the nations of the world seek after all of these things, but your Father knows that you need these things. But seek God's Kingdom, and all these things will be added to you.
Luke 12:22-31

 

[1213]

And that version of "high spirituality" is nothing short of obnoxious, appearing as though one can dismiss the sufferings of humanity as "not important".
I've seen people die of conditions I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. and I won't wish on you.
Perhaps I'm wrong and you have held this view through significant and severe times of suffering. I would be surprised, though.

I understand that many things are unpleasant. However, in Biblical point of view, this “life” is just temporary thing and not all. If you believe that this is all, then I understand if you have a problem. But if you believe what the Bible tells, all things in this world are not so bad and not a problem, because after this everything will be well and there are greater things than this “life”.

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father. But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.
Matt. 10:28-31

For whoever wants to save his life will lose it; and whoever will lose his life for my sake and the gospel's will save it. For what does it profit a man, to gain the whole world, and forfeit his life?
Mark. 8:35-36

I understand it is easier to say than live according to this, but I think Christians should trust to God and Jesus and fear not anything of this world because all this is short and temporary and not the thing that is meant to last forever.

And actually I am sure that all suffering will increase in near future vastly and governments become more evil and will begin to persecute Christians and people who support freedom. I hope all Christians (disciples of Jesus) remember in difficulties what Jesus said and are faithful to his word as were his disciples in the beginning.

 

[Locutus]

Please notice that I said also ”…become righteous”. According to the Bible eternal life is for righteous. There must happen change in person’s heart so that he becomes righteous, if one is not already righteous.

Of course people find many things problematic. But if person beliefs in the Bible, he should not worry about temporary things and about this life that is not even meant to last forever.

1) What does 'righteous' mean? Is it the thing you tell yourself you are after doing the incantations?

2) Yeah, I see bible believing Christians 'not worrying' about their terrible pain, death, and suffering all the time. And I'll be sure to tell those African children that there's no need to worry about starvation - 1213, a well fed guy living in a comfortable house, has said so! Seriously do you people even spent 10 seconds thinking through some of this stuff?

 

[Locutus]

But if you believe what the Bible tells, all things in this world are not so bad and not a problem, because after this everything will be well and there are greater things than this “life”.
.

One in a thousand Christians actually lives (and dies) as though that were true. If infantile platitudes are your default position (you appear to have held onto a child's version of Christianity), you're in for a rude awakening. Christians suffer as much, or more, than non-believers when the chips are down.

 

[Tiny Bible]

There's probably a comic that evolved out of this old joke but I don't know where that is. So I'll go with the old joke that may help to also put this thread subject into context.

An atheist dies and finds himself in Hell. The Devil is standing beside him and asks if he'd like a tour. Sure, says the atheist.
They proceed through the pit and there are lush green hills, fragrant flowers, crystal skies, sweet waters flowing here and there, and it is the most beautiful paradise sight the atheist has ever imagined.
After awhile of touring and continuing to be in awe of his new eternal home he looks at the prince of darkness and says, this can't be Hell. It's magnificient!
The Devil smiles and just then behind his head the atheist sees the crystal sky open up. There's this black hole suddenly in the sky and from there falls these people, naked, screaming, toward the surface of Hell. But before they land the lush green paradise opens below them and their descent. And instead of paradise there's these licking flames, belching plumes of sulfur and screams that ring across the landscape and nearly deafen the atheist.
The falling people disappear into that fiery hole screaming all the way until their voices echo and then disappear. And just as the screams disappear both the hole in the sky and in the landscape ahead disappear. And paradise in sky and on the surface of Hell are restored.

The atheist is stunned.
Gasping to get the last of the sulfur stench out of his awareness he blinks and gasps a question to Satan. Who is now standing there watching the atheist and with a smile on his face.
WHAT WAS THAT? The atheist chokes out in question to Satan.

Oh, that? Those were the Fundamentalist Christians who believed they deserve a fire and brimstone Hell and eternal suffering.
Satan again smiled as the tour with the atheist resumed amid lush green landscapes beneath crystal skies and amid the sound of trickling pure waters flowing and bubbling here and there.


(*edited to help understanding* If you don't get it now that's OK 2)

 

[Locutus]

There's probably a comic that evolved out of this old joke but I don't know where that is. So I'll go with the old joke that may help to also put this thread subject into context.

An atheist dies and finds himself in Hell. The Devil is standing beside him and asks if he'd like a tour. Sure, says the atheist.
They proceed through the pit and there are lush green hills, fragrant flowers, crystal skies, sweet waters flowing here and there, and it is the most beautiful paradise sight the atheist has ever imagined.
After awhile of touring and continuing to be in awe of his new eternal home he looks at the prince of darkness and says, this can't be Hell. It's magnificient!
The Devil smiles and just then behind his head the atheist sees the crystal sky open up. There's this black hole suddenly in the sky and from there falls these people, naked, screaming, toward the surface of Hell. But before they land the lush green paradise opens below them and their descent. And instead of paradise there's these licking flames, belching plumes of sulfur and screams that ring across the landscape and nearly deafen the atheist.
The falling people disappear into that fiery hole screaming all the way until their voices echo and then disappear. And just as the screams disappear both the hole in the sky and in the landscape ahead disappear. And paradise in sky and on the surface of Hell are restored.

The atheist is stunned.
Gasping to get the last of the sulfur stench out of his awareness he blinks and gasps a question to Satan. Who is now standing there watching the atheist and with a smile on his face.
WHAT WAS THAT? The atheist chokes out in question to Satan.

Oh, that, that's the Fundy's who really weren't certain of the word and its promise. We aim to please.
And he smiled as the tour with the atheist resumed amid lush green landscapes beneath crystal skies and amid the sound of trickling pure waters flowing and bubbling here and there.

Either you need a little practice at tightening up a narrative, or that's a really bad joke. Either way, it made not a lick of sense.

 

[Dan Bert]

Suffering.

1. There is suffering for sins.
2. There is suffering for purification and for the Glory of God (those who have heard and learned of the Father cometh unto Christ)

In the last case ....If obedience has been learned then there is no need for suffering.

In all cases suffering is for own good if we profit from it.

Dan

This is one of the hardest questions I have to answer with people, they always have a hard time understanding HOW a loving God could command all those people in the old testament to be killed. They look at the world and they see a world in pain!

WHY does God allow suffering!?

Does God truly care for and have a plan for all who have ever lived and died? These are common questions. Discover the Bible’s clear answers on this important topic.

http://www.tomorrowsworld.org/telecasts/why-does-god-allow-suffering#sthash.eDVOkq1H.dpuf

 

[Hoghead1]

I don't think that God allows us to suffer. Any God who did that would be anything but responsible and loving. I think that God is doing all that he or she can to prevent suffering. However, there are definite limits on how far God can go. I view God as Cosmic Artist, whose goal is to continually introduce and maximize possibilities of greater beauty. Beauty means complexity, and complexity means freedom, choice, things can be some way other than they are intended to be. If you had a simple piano, a piano with just one note, nobody could ever play a wrong note. But playing one note over and over is boring. A piano with 88 keys provides grater possibilities for beautiful melodies. However, it can also be misused via people just banging on it or people hitting wrong notes. Chances for good always overlap with chances for evil. The fire that warms you can kill you if misused. Since we all have beauty, complexity, and therefore free will, God cannot force us to do anything. God cannot decide for us. God lures us by presenting creative possibilities for us to actualize so as to achieve more beauty, but the rest is up to us. In our freedom ,we can and do make bad choices, and that is responsible for our suffering. The only way God could have created a world in which there was no suffering would have been for God to create a wholly simple world, where you couldn't even have a rubber butter knife or simple camp fire. But that would be boring and so out of the question for God.

 

[MehGuy]

I don't think that God allows us to suffer. Any God who did that would be anything but responsible and loving. I think that God is doing all that he or she can to prevent suffering. However, there are definite limits on how far God can go. I view God as Cosmic Artist, whose goal is to continually introduce and maximize possibilities of greater beauty. Beauty means complexity, and complexity means freedom, choice, things can be some way other than they are intended to be. If you had a simple piano, a piano with just one note, nobody could ever play a wrong note. But playing one note over and over is boring. A piano with 88 keys provides grater possibilities for beautiful melodies. However, it can also be misused via people just banging on it or people hitting wrong notes. Chances for good always overlap with chances for evil. The fire that warms you can kill you if misused. Since we all have beauty, complexity, and therefore free will, God cannot force us to do anything. God cannot decide for us. God lures us by presenting creative possibilities for us to actualize so as to achieve more beauty, but the rest is up to us. In our freedom ,we can and do make bad choices, and that is responsible for our suffering. The only way God could have created a world in which there was no suffering would have been for God to create a wholly simple world, where you couldn't even have a rubber butter knife or simple camp fire. But that would be boring and so out of the question for God.

So heaven is boring?

 

[LANMind]

Wow... I saw this question and came to make an attempt at an answer, but then I was smacked with a lot of barely hidden mocking replies. Well done, everyone. Way to discourse

Full disclosure: evangelical Christian, and I believe in free will. I have a few friends that I respect greatly who disagree, but at the end of the day we still manage to love each other.

Anyway, why wouldn't God allow us to suffer? Who says God should relieve all suffering?