Why does God allow us to suffer?

[Locutus]

My heart guides me as well. I know you think that is nonsense but its not.

I don't think it's nonsense. We're often driven by emotions.

My problem with this is that 'the heart' is a notoriously unreliable guide.

 

[Locutus]

You follow what you been told as well. I wont be afraid on my death bed my friend. I will be happy. When my days come to end, my work will be done and so will Gods, and i will eagerly leave this temporary world and enter into the eternal life which is promised to us. Despite all that this world has thrown at me, i am so very happy, and the best is yet to come.

.

It would be great if you could be as happy for and in this life. It's real and it's now. Revel!

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Pain is a requirement of our human condition and so we are not sitting
on "Sleep Number" puffy clouds with no need to move a finger.

Under the proposed scenario we would be born in happiness onto our
soft pillows and stay for eternity with no hunger or pain, not moving a muscle.

No Pain? No reality.

This sounds like a great argument against the idea of heaven.

 

[Locutus]

I dont know exactly what a theist is, but if i understand correctly most Christians are not theists. As far as learning to find value in suffering goes, its not about looking for suffering, but instead finding value in suffering when it comes. Its apart of life and does have value, if you choose to look at it with faith. Everyone suffers and so its better to suffer with God rather than without him. Thats my personal understanding. With God all things can be a blessing. My depression for example, in my opinion, can either be a curse or a blessing, depending on how i choose to look at it. If i didnt see blessing in it then it would consume me, but because i see blessing in it it actually blesses me instead.

If you can extract value out of your depression, that's a good thing. Doing so isn't restricted to believers though. My point is that you could do it with or without religion - and that too, is a good thing. It would be terrible if it was only possible via belief in a god.

 

[Locutus]

Why do you assume that God is doing nothing about suffering?

Why do you believe you deserve anything good from God?

It is not egomania. Egomania would be a sinful depraved human being demanding all of the glory who has no right to claim any glory. It is not egomania with God, because He is the only one deserving of all glory, honor and praise.

You also assume that you, the created, have the right or grounds on which to judge God, your Creator. You don't.

1) Because he's finding your car keys but letting children die of cancer and starvation. If that's 'doing something', then you and I are unlikely to ever agree on the thing.

2) How can I 'deserve' something from an entity which I don't believe exists? You seem confused.

3) Creating a universe and creatures in order to glorify himself isn't egomania? See above. Moreover, please read up on Stockholm Syndrome.

4) And yet you judge god all day every day.

 

[Extraneous]

Ah, yeah. in my line of work I'm often around people who have come close to death. Valuing life more after a near miss is universal. The key is valuing it every day - which is precisely what I do. I only get THIS chance. This one picosecond in an eternity. That makes life infinitely more precious than a world in which we're eternal.

A diamond in a sea of diamonds is not precious. A single diamond in a desert is.

I value life more now that i have put faith in God. I dont waste it. Before i put faith in God i wasted my life. After wasting it i was severely depressed, but God gave me hope and helped me to move on and keep living.

 

[Extraneous]

But they're not making a decision! They're simply desperately tying to find the comfort they thought would be there at the end, and it's not there. I have seen this sooo many times. It's part of the reason I don't think any more than a tiny proportion of theists actually believe.

Im not expecting to be fearless, i think perhaps when that times comes i will be ready, but it wont be without a little distress. Its abig move so naturally it wont be easy, but i'll be ready because faith will be with me.

 

[Locutus]

Yes, death is a consequence of the sinfulness of man.

Every breath you take without being thankful or grateful to God is stealing from Him.

Why does death even figure as warning or punishment, in light of the immortality you believe is yours?

Every breath you take without being thankful to Odin is stealing from him. Sorry, no ... make that Zeus.

 

[Extraneous]

Why not find something more like a fellowship group? If you're young or youngish, there are plenty of Christian social groups who's focus is on activities and friendship, with a little casual worship thrown in.

Im not young anymore. I suppose to someone much older i may seem young, but my years of wasted life and resulting depression have sucked the youth out of me. Im not a kid anymore. Its not that easy for me to join such a group either. Im content anyway.

 

[Extraneous]

If you can extract value out of your depression, that's a good thing. Doing so isn't restricted to believers though. My point is that you could do it with or without religion - and that too, is a good thing. It would be terrible if it was only possible via belief in a god.

Yea right. lol. Who would value depression unless they had faith?

 

[Locutus]

Not in the same sense that you are judging Him

unbelievable. and you tell yourself this seems legitimate? that others might actually fall for it?

and how did you make your judgment on god, using magical pixie dust? or did you employ your critical faculties (aka, your own pride) to arrive at the conclusion that god is good?

 

[Locutus]

Why is there suffering in the world? I have been reading a lot of these threads and all of them make very good points. People believe that the cause of all suffering comes from God. That is impossible because He is inheritantly good.

How do you know?

 

[Locutus]

Yea right. lol. Who would value depression unless they had faith?

I've met quite a few who moved on to a place where they feel the experience enriched their lives in some way. As mentioned, valuing experiences, positive OR negative, is pretty much universal. Whether you actually do so is determined by personality type and other prosaic factors. It has nothing to do with religion, though I'm sure religious people assume it has. Non religious people are also inclined to put it down to one thing or another, and they're not right either. It's a combination of personality, upbringing, life experiences, education, etc etc.

 

[Extraneous]

I wasted my life on drugs. Such a waste. Years and years just wasted for nothing. Thats not living, that's dying. I also have very difficult things i must live with, things most people wil never have to face. Without faith in the Lord, i dont see how i could be happy. He makes me happy. He fills that void in my heart. You can say that i can be happy without him, but i know different. I know the suffering i brought on myself was more than a person can endure alone. Thats the truth. I have seen people kill themselves over less than i must live with. Jesus Christ is my everything.

 

[Extraneous]

I've met quite a few who moved on to a place where they feel the experience enriched their lives in some way. As mentioned, valuing experiences, positive OR negative, is pretty much universal. Whether you actually do so is determined by personality type and other prosaic factors. It has nothing to do with religion, though I'm sure religious people assume it has. Non religious people are also inclined to put it down to one thing or another, and they're not right either. It's a combination of personality, upbringing, life experiences, education, etc etc.

Ok, good for them. I see something different though. I see people without hope, and i see how the Lord changed their life and gave them hope when nothing else could. It saddens me that more people dont understand what it means to be a Christian. Its about hope and love.

 

[Extraneous]

Ive seen people killed, shot dead over their dangerous lifestyles. I've seen them commit suicide as well. If they had fear of hell they would not throw their life away, and if they had the love which cast out that fear once they accept Gods grace, which comes through faith in the Lord, they could be happy and live a more productive life as well. Faith is not the horrible meaningless thing you think it is. It should preached because it saves lives. I'll bet the world is full of testimonies about Jesus Christ and How he saved them.

 

[Locutus]

I wasted my life on drugs. Such a waste. Years and years just wasted for nothing. Thats not living, that's dying. I also have very difficult things i must live with, things most people wil never have to face. Without faith in the Lord, i dont see how i could be happy. He makes me happy. He fills that void in my heart. You can say that i can be happy without him, but i know different. I know the suffering i brought on myself was more than a person can endure alone. Thats the truth. I have seen people kill themselves over less than i must live with. Jesus Christ is my everything.

First up, you didn't waste your life - because you now benefit from those experiences. You have more appreciation for life in consequence, than you might otherwise have had. You might otherwise have been a person who lived their entire life without once stopping to smell the roses.

Secondly, and most importantly, you healed yourself. It doesn't matter what you call the muse - Jesus, love, Vishnu, your puppy, a beautiful woman/man, the ocean, a child - the end result is the same. YOU DID IT. For every undertaking we humans embark on, and in particular those requiring significant motivation, we find a muse - a spur. They can be anything at all, but never ever make the mistake of thinking they, the muse, did it. They are simply a source of motivation. We ourselves must first have the material to succeed, and you did. Please don't sell yourself short.

 

[Locutus]

Faith is not the horrible meaningless thing you think it is. I'll bet the world is full of testimonies about Jesus Christ and How he saved them.

I don't think religious belief is horrible and meaningless, I think it has the capacity to make us view life as horrible and meaningless.

I've no doubt many people attribute battles won to Jesus. Just as many attribute the same to Allah, and Vishnu, and Buddha.

 

[Extraneous]

First up, you didn't waste your life - because you now benefit from those experiences. You have more appreciation for life in consequence, than you might otherwise have had. You might otherwise have been a person who lived their entire life without once stopping to smell the roses.

Secondly, and most importantly, you healed yourself. It doesn't matter what you call the muse - Jesus, love, Vishnu, your puppy, a beautiful woman/man, the ocean, a child - the end result is the same. YOU DID IT. For every undertaking we humans embark on, and in particular those requiring significant motivation, we find a muse - a spur. They can be anything at all, but never ever make the mistake of thinking they, the muse, did it. They are simply a source of motivation. We ourselves must first have the material to succeed, and you did. Please don't sell yourself short.

Without the words of Christ i would not be where im at now. I would not have known how to love other people, i would not have known about humility and love. That's the truth. You can say that i must be pathetic for needing taught that, but the world is better off because the words of Christ taught me that. Im telling you the truth, without Christ i would be proud and selfish. I would also be voting against healthcare, welfare, and instead i would be supporting war and hate. You just have no idea what kind of worthless person i would be without the teaching of Christ. Those things were not easy for me, and without faith in Christ i would never have changed. Never. I even love animals because of the Lord

 

[Extraneous]

How many murderers do you think may have changed because of faith in God?