Why does God allow us to suffer?

[JoeP222w]

actually, those depraved and sinful humans are the only ones doing anything about the suffering your god has failed to act on. worse, we're cleaning up his mess - after all, he planned it.

why would a perfect being need to glorify itself? is it an egomaniac - in which case far from perfect?

Why do you assume that God is doing nothing about suffering?

Why do you believe you deserve anything good from God?

It is not egomania. Egomania would be a sinful depraved human being demanding all of the glory who has no right to claim any glory. It is not egomania with God, because He is the only one deserving of all glory, honor and praise.

You also assume that you, the created, have the right or grounds on which to judge God, your Creator. You don't.

 

[Extraneous]

I form my understandings on the basis of EVIDENCE.

Me too.

 

[JoeP222w]

9 million children die each year before the age of five because of the fall of man??

So holy, perfect and righteous????????????????????

Yes, death is a consequence of the sinfulness of man. Everyone is born into sin. Just because they are children does not automatically make them righteous before God. That is not to say that a child has sinned to their full capacity, nonetheless, by their nature, they have failed to keep God's perfect Law. For example, a 2 year old child never has to be taught to lie.

Every breath you take without being thankful or grateful to God is stealing from Him.

 

[Extraneous]

God is real, my heart knows it. This is not just some fake feel good fairy tale. The fact that i have suffered and been through hardship is proof. While others may fall away, i kept going so i could see the glory of God. I wouldn't give up now for anything, not even a million dollars. I been everywhere, saw everything, made every mistake, paid the high cost of low living. Yet here i am, full of Joy in the Lord. Money cant buy happiness, but Faith can.

 

[quatona]

Why do you assume that God is doing nothing about suffering?

With suffering being around, we can conclude that God doesn´t do anything effective to remove it.

Why do you believe you deserve anything good from God?

I don´t believe that. I´m not the one claiming that God is or has to be good/omnibenevolent.
Merely stating that God doesn´t do X doesn´t mean I believe that I deserve X from God.

It is not egomania. Egomania would be a sinful depraved human being demanding all of the glory who has no right to claim any glory. It is not egomania with God, because He is the only one deserving of all glory, honor and praise.

You don´t get to redefine "egomania". It´s still egomania, even if you feel it´s justified egomania.

You also assume that you, the created, have the right or grounds on which to judge God, your Creator.

Well, actually it´s you who judges God here all the time.
Merely stating the obvious (that God does not remove suffering effectively, and that a God demanding worship is full of himself) isn´t a judgement.
Whereas calling him "deserving of all glory, honor and praise" is judging him.

 

[Extraneous]

and that a God demanding worship is full of himself) .

Worship is simply acknowledging that God created us, and to be thankful. We humans, who refuse to acknowledge our own creator, are the ones full of ourselves, at least from Gods perspective anyway. He actually wants to be our friend, not our tyrant.

We all fail too. None of us are righteous.

 

[SkyWriting]

Oh really? Then please explain why we find the various religions largely determined by nationality?

That would be formalized religions, not general belief in outside powers, found universally.

 

[JoeP222w]

With suffering being around, we can conclude that God doesn´t do anything effective to remove it.


I don´t believe that. I´m not the one claiming that God is or has to be good/omnibenevolent.
Merely stating that God doesn´t do X doesn´t mean I believe that I deserve X from God.


You don´t get to redefine "egomania". It´s still egomania, even if you feel it´s justified egomania.


Well, actually it´s you who judges God here all the time.
Merely stating the obvious (that God does not remove suffering effectively, and that a God demanding worship is full of himself) isn´t a judgement.
Whereas calling him "deserving of all glory, honor and praise" is judging him.

"With suffering being around, we can conclude that God doesn´t do anything effective to remove it."

Who are you, o man, to judge God?

-------
"Egomania is also known as an obsessive preoccupation with one's self and applies to someone who follows their own ungoverned impulses and is possessed by delusions of personal greatness and feels a lack of appreciation. Someone suffering from this extreme egocentric focus is an egomaniac."

None of which describes or defines God.

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"Whereas calling him "deserving of all glory, honor and praise" is judging him."

Not in the same sense that you are judging Him (there are different forms of judging). By His grace, I judge Him for His rightness from humility, that I am nothing without Him, not even dust. You appear to judge Him from your pride, that God does wrong, that you know better than Him, and you make yourself God, that you have authority over Him.

 

[joshua 1 9]

And yet, that is exactly what you do!

Have you ever heard of Bob Dylan? He has been around a long time. He sang a song once where he said:"You got to serve somebody". That is pretty much what it all comes down to. We all have a choice in life. IF we do not serve God then by default we have rejected what is good and we are serving what is evil. People can be deceived, they can be in denial. But that does not make the truth any less true. For the most part our whole live is summed up into making this one choice. It could be God created this whole Universe for each of us as an individual to make this one choice in our life. Are we going to serve God or follow the devil in his rebellion against God.

"But you’re gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed
You’re gonna have to serve somebody
Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you’re gonna have to serve somebody

Read more: http://www.bobdylan.com/us/songs/gotta-serve-somebody#ixzz4173XOvOs

 

[joshua 1 9]

Second time i posted that scripture, and this song, today. I just cant help it. Im so happy. Happiness is a room without a roof.

When you talk about a room without a roof, this is usually a reference to Heaven joining us in our worship. They say there are portals they can go to if there is reason to rejoice here on Earth. When I got saved it was as if the roof had been blown off of the building. Later on I learned why I had that experience. Heaven was joining in on the joy of my salvation.

 

[SteveB28]

God is real, my heart knows it. This is not just some fake feel good fairy tale. The fact that i have suffered and been through hardship is proof. While others may fall away, i kept going so i could see the glory of God. I wouldn't give up now for anything, not even a million dollars. I been everywhere, saw everything, made every mistake, paid the high cost of low living. Yet here i am, full of Joy in the Lord. Money cant buy happiness, but Faith can.

This is silly. Beliefs are not formed on the basis of choice.

 

[SteveB28]

Have you ever heard of Bob Dylan? He has been around a long time. He sang a song once where he said:"You got to serve somebody". That is pretty much what it all comes down to. We all have a choice in life. IF we do not serve God then by default we have rejected what is good and we are serving what is evil. People can be deceived, they can be in denial. But that does not make the truth any less true. For the most part our whole live is summed up into making this one choice. It could be God created this whole Universe for each of us as an individual to make this one choice in our life. Are we going to serve God or follow the devil in his rebellion against God.

"But you’re gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed
You’re gonna have to serve somebody
Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you’re gonna have to serve somebody

Read more: http://www.bobdylan.com/us/songs/gotta-serve-somebody#ixzz4173XOvOs

Beliefs are not formed through choice.

And I suggest you listen to another song of his - 'With God on our Side'!

 

[Extraneous]

When you talk about a room without a roof, this is usually a reference to Heaven joining us in our worship. They say there are portals they can go to if there is reason to rejoice here on Earth. When I got saved it was as if the roof had been blown off of the building. Later on I learned why I had that experience. Heaven was joining in on the joy of my salvation.

I have no idea what the song was about exactly, or that phrase about the roof, but for me it was about liberty in Christ and about being closer to Heaven, in my own limited understanding. Basically it was just about the joy i feel after being around politics, religion and secular opinions of man, and then finding liberty from it all.

 

[Extraneous]

This is silly. Beliefs are not formed on the basis of choice.

Ok then, if you say so.

 

[Bsign24]

Why is there suffering in the world? I have been reading a lot of these threads and all of them make very good points. People believe that the cause of all suffering comes from God. That is impossible because He is inheritantly good. So why does suffering exist, what is the source? The source is looking right at you in the mirror. We are the cause of all suffering in this world. Our selfishness and our desire to control all things is the root of all suffering and that root is sin. Why did God allow us to cause so much harm to each other? Why doesn't just stop us from sinning? If God had done that then we would not have free will. When God made mankind, He made him in His image. What that means is that we bear some of the attributes of God which include creativity and choice. The ability to choose is what man so unique compared to the rest of His creation. It could also be a risky ability because there is the option to choose not to follow God.
God is good and He is full of mercy. He could have easily wiped out humanity for their disobedience, instead He gave them the chance to choose repentance. God is good, but He is also just, because man chose to disobey, there must be consequences.
Fortunately the consequences of sin, which is seen all over the world, is only for a moment. Furthermore, He has promised that suffering will cease, when the Lord Jesus Christ comes down to earth to save His people and reign on a new heaven and new earth. Now will there be free will in this new universe? To tell the truth, I don't know. There are many things that I am not sure when it comes to God. But that doesn't bother me. It is impossible for finite man to truly grasp the infinite God. His brain would get a headache just by trying.

 

[Locutus]

What point are you trying to make? Abraham had two sons. One with his wife Sarah, the other was with Hagar the Egyptian who was his wife's maid. The Hebrews are the children of promise with Sarah. Islam represents the descendants of Ishmael Hagars son. As Christians we receive the inheritance of Isaac the son of Sarah. In us the promises of God are yes and amen.

You keep referencing the bible. The bible is meaningless to the atheist, just as the Koran is meaningless to you. You 'judge' islam on its human face. We do the same with Christianity. In other words, if we want to see your god we don't look at your old book, we look at YOU.

 

[Locutus]

God does not interfere with the material world
except through the influence of the Spirit on
man. Though this can indirectly prolong life.

Except when he finds parking spots close to the destination, or missing car keys, or helps you pass an exam or get a job promotion. But don't worry ... those dying African kids don't mind sacrificing themselves for these important interventions.

 

[Locutus]

That's not belief in a god.

it's not belief in YOUR god, but it damned as heck ain't atheism. they are, as stated earlier, commonly regarded as one of the most religious cultures on earth. Similar to Korea.

 

[Extraneous]

You keep referencing the bible. The bible is meaningless to the atheist

What do you expect? If you talk about God to a Christian, then they will quote the bible.

 

[quatona]

"With suffering being around, we can conclude that God doesn´t do anything effective to remove it."

Who are you, o man, to judge God?

As I said, this is not a judgement. It´s a logical conclusion.

-------

"Egomania is also known as an obsessive preoccupation with one's self and applies to someone who follows their own ungoverned impulses and is possessed by delusions of personal greatness and feels a lack of appreciation. Someone suffering from this extreme egocentric focus is an egomaniac."

None of which describes or defines God.

It´s the appropriate description for a being that demands worship. Fortunately, it´s bot my claim that God demands worship.It´s your idea.

---------

"Whereas calling him "deserving of all glory, honor and praise" is judging him."

Not in the same sense that you are judging Him (there are different forms of judging). By His grace, I judge Him for His rightness from humility, that I am nothing without Him, not even dust.

Yes, you judge God - albeit positively.

You appear to judge Him from your pride, that God does wrong, that you know better than Him, and you make yourself God, that you have authority over Him.

Keyword: "appear to".