Why does God allow us to suffer?

[Extraneous]

As I said, this is not a judgement. It´s a logical conclusion.

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It´s the appropriate description for a being that demands worship. Fortunately, it´s bot my claim that God demands worship.It´s your idea.

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Yes, you judge God - albeit positively.

Keyword: "appear to".

Try seeing it differently for a moment. Is it cruel that you feel pain? The same senses that make you feel pain also make you feel pleasure. Is pleasure cruel? Do you think death is cruel? Death is just the same as you were before you were born. Was it cruel that you didnt exist before you were born? If so, then be glad you were born. The bible teaches that we will be born once again, only this time without mortality or pain.

 

[Locutus]

I have heard that many Atheists get faith in the end. ITs not a bad thing is it? Even if its not real, if it helps then its a good thing. I however know it is real.

Of course, some atheists will clutch at old familiar straws when the panic sets in. They're dying, after all. The important point here is that it doesn't appear to make much difference .. there is no 'going gentle into that good night', if Jesus is turned to at the 11th hour. And again, the really important point is that so many of those who've been with the lord all along are abandoned at the 11th hour. Faith utterly deserts them at the most crucial time. Easy to believe in foreverland when things are going fair-to-middling, not so easy when the reality hits that your or a loved one's world is about to terminate.

 

[Extraneous]

Of course, some atheists will clutch at old familiar straws when the panic sets in. They're dying, after all. The important point here is that it doesn't appear to make much difference .. there is no 'going gentle into that good night', if Jesus is turned to at the 11th hour. And again, the really important point is that so many of those who've been with the lord all along are abandoned at the 11th hour. Faith utterly deserts them at the most crucial time. Easy to believe in foreverland when things are going fair-to-middling, not so easy when the physical reality of your or a loved one's world is about to terminate.

Maybe you are just expecting too much. God doesn't desert anyone at that hour, in fact he is about to reveal himself fully. Would you be thankful for pleasure but not pain? How about happiness without sorrow? Happiness is all the more sweet after you have tasted sorrow. YOu are such a pessimist. You must try to see that life truly is a gift from God.

 

[Locutus]

GOd has always taught about us about our false GOds made of wood and stone, which are idol worship, and he commanded that he not ever be made into such an idol. I believe hes the only GOd that has ever done that.

I'm curious to know why that makes any difference. All gods/prophets say unique things, why is this significant? Buddha was the only one who said he was born out of his mother's side. Mohammad was the only one who ascended to heaven on a winged horse. Is being the sole exponent of a particular idea or action the reason we believe in particular gods?

 

[Extraneous]

Ever heard anyone say that after they came near to dying that they felt like they were born all over again? They say everything just seems much more beautiful. They never notice the roses and how they smell or how beautiful they are. Stop and look at the Roses my friend

 

[Extraneous]

I'm curious to know why that makes any difference. All gods/prophets say unique things, why is this significant? Buddha was the only one who said he was born out of his mother's side. Mohammad was the only one who ascended to heaven on a winged horse. Is being the sole exponent of a particular idea or action the reason we believe in particular gods?

Ok, be a pessimist then. Miss the beauty of living and the sweet taste of hope. Its your loss.

 

[Locutus]

You dont understand faith or you would never make such an assertion. After all i been though, i would not abandon God when hes needed the most. Faith gets tested and purified.

I don't think these theists are abandoning their faith on the deathbed, Extraneous. They are finding it simply ... not there. They reach for what they're expecting will be comfort, and it isn't there. All they find is the brutal reality that it is indeed, all ending. This is of course, the same panic which moves some atheists to reach for a childhood memory of Jesus, but it's a negative outcome. A very negative outcome. And it also afflicts believing loved ones. I've had to request sedation on a number of occasions - such was the reluctance to release the dying to heaven.

 

[Extraneous]

I love this scripture. Most people think it refers to God giving us actual clothes to wear, but its my opinion that the Lord is referring to our immortal bodies that God promises to us. Hes also, in my opinion, talking about being clothed in joy and peace and delight. What a wonderfully hidden message this is. He is a real God and has a real sense of life about him. I love it.

Mathew 6:5 “Therefore I say to you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink; nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food and the body more than clothing? 26 Look at the birds of the air, for they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? 27 Which of you by worrying can add one cubit to his stature?

28 “So why do you worry about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin; 29 and yet I say to you that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30 Now if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will He not much more clothe you, O you of little faith?

 

[Extraneous]

I don't think these theists are abandoning their faith on the deathbed, Extraneous. They are finding it simply ... not there. They reach for what they're expecting will be comfort, and it isn't there. All they find is the brutal reality that it is indeed, all ending. This is of course, the same panic which moves some atheists to reach for a childhood memory of Jesus, but it's a negative outcome. A very negative outcome. And it also afflicts believing loved ones. I've had to request sedation on a number of occasions - such was the reluctance to release the dying to heaven.

What they should be doing is waiting till they actually leave this world before making such a hasty decision. O Ye theists of little faith.

 

[Locutus]

Do you understand the difference between positive and negative. Perhaps you do not know the difference between building up and tearing down. Or maybe you only want to tear down, perhaps you feel that is your mission in life. In general if people only tear down and destroy, they never build anything then there will be nothing left. Everything will be destroyed. Is that the sort of world you want to live in?

On the contrary, we hope to build people up to regain their belief in the goodness of human beings. And we want to 'tear down' old superstitions because some of them tear down people - corrupting the moral compass and devaluing life.

 

[Locutus]

I´m not quite sure I understand believers´ view on the value of life - alternating between "(earthly) life is sacred" and "earthly life is best finished early".

this, to the power of ten.

 

[Extraneous]

this, to the power of ten.

Gods full of wonder and mystery.

 

[Locutus]

Maybe you are just expecting too much. God doesn't desert anyone at that hour, in fact he is about to reveal himself fully. Would you be thankful for pleasure but not pain? How about happiness without sorrow? Happiness is all the more sweet after you have tasted sorrow. YOu are such a pessimist. You must try to see that life truly is a gift from God.

I'm not saying 'god deserts' these people, I'm saying that any comfort they thought they'd find, isn't there. They were SO sure death would not be terrible on account of a firm belief in an afterlife, and yet it was terrible. Shocking terrible, because it was so unexpected.

As regards sorrow and pain, I see far more theist praying for it to stop, than I do theists embracing it as a learning experiencing. It would appear that most Christians dislike these thing as much as the next person.

I can't for the life of me figure out how you arrived at the conclusion that I'm a pessimist. I'm the one who treasures every second of life. The only life we truly know we have.

 

[Locutus]

Ever heard anyone say that after they came near to dying that they felt like they were born all over again? They say everything just seems much more beautiful. They never notice the roses and how they smell or how beautiful they are. Stop and look at the Roses my friend

Ah, yeah. in my line of work I'm often around people who have come close to death. Valuing life more after a near miss is universal. The key is valuing it every day - which is precisely what I do. I only get THIS chance. This one picosecond in an eternity. That makes life infinitely more precious than a world in which we're eternal.

A diamond in a sea of diamonds is not precious. A single diamond in a desert is.

 

[Locutus]

Ok, be a pessimist then. Miss the beauty of living and the sweet taste of hope. Its your loss.

That's an emotive response.

 

[Locutus]

What they should be doing is waiting till they actually leave this world before making such a hasty decision. O Ye theists of little faith.

But they're not making a decision! They're simply desperately tying to find the comfort they thought would be there at the end, and it's not there. I have seen this sooo many times. It's part of the reason I don't think any more than a tiny proportion of theists actually believe.

 

[Locutus]

Gods full of wonder and mystery.

Which could be construed as "none of it makes much sense, but I want to live forever so I'm willing to overlook that"

 

[Locutus]

Jesus teaching was the way of peace. Follows by people like Gandhi and Martin King. He said to do good and not evil. Even return good when others are evil. This is what it means to be a Child of God. The devil came to kill, steal and destroy and his children follow after that. This is a choice everyone has to make as there are two types of people in this world. Always there are those who produce and those who plunder the production of others. There is the way of progress to build up and to create then there are those who are at war with themselves and the world. They just want to tear down and annihilate. They will only destroy themselves in the end.

The people who are currently destroying the world, if that's your standard for evil, are those who sit in air conditioned houses, gobbling all the resources while moralising on the proper use of genitalia. And they're ably assisted by their corporate slave-masters. The 'machine' destroying the world is galloping capitalism and greed. As you say, they will destroy themselves in the end, but on the road to their own destruction they will destroy far more - most of whom never had a say in the matter.

You want to 'fight evil', there's your target.

 

[Locutus]

I was thinking about this. I don't have a priest or a pastor. I dont even go to church. I would like to go to a simple little Church but i cant. I don't even have a counselor.

Why not find something more like a fellowship group? If you're young or youngish, there are plenty of Christian social groups who's focus is on activities and friendship, with a little casual worship thrown in.

 

[Extraneous]

I'm not saying 'god deserts' these people, I'm saying that any comfort they thought they'd find, isn't there. They were SO sure death would not be terrible on account of a firm belief in an afterlife, and yet it was terrible. Shocking terrible, because it was so unexpected.

As regards sorrow and pain, I see far more theist praying for it to stop, than I do theists embracing it as a learning experiencing. It would appear that most Christians dislike these thing as much as the next person.

I can't for the life of me figure out how you arrived at the conclusion that I'm a pessimist. I'm the one who treasures every second of life. The only life we truly know we have.

I dont know exactly what a theist is, but if i understand correctly most Christians are not theists. As far as learning to find value in suffering goes, its not about looking for suffering, but instead finding value in suffering when it comes. Its apart of life and does have value, if you choose to look at it with faith. Everyone suffers and so its better to suffer with God rather than without him. Thats my personal understanding. With God all things can be a blessing. My depression for example, in my opinion, can either be a curse or a blessing, depending on how i choose to look at it. If i didnt see blessing in it then it would consume me, but because i see blessing in it it actually blesses me instead.