The orgins of Yahweh

[nomadictheist]

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You are confused about something here, "the LORD" is the English translation for the name "YHWH". And in fact, the "angel of the Lord" should read the "angel YHWH", and you can even look at an interlinear here,

http://biblehub.com/interlinear/exodus/3-2.htm

Please show your credentials if you are telling us how to translate this verse. If you haven't studied ancient Hebrew extensively, then don't claim that every Bible translator is wrong in their translation of this verse.

"of the" are not words that are part of the original Hebrew, so essentially it should read, "angel YHWH". So this angel is in fact YHWH, which is why when this angel spoke to Moses, he then also says, "....by my name I did not make myself known....". That name, was YHWH. This was the name of this particular angel. So..... this is what I believe... its in the scriptures. This angel then spoke as God, not because he was God the Father, as in another scripture we read that even the heaven of the heavens cannot contain the Father, so how can we possibly even think that the Father could reside in a bush, but because this angel spoke in representation and authority of the Father.

Actually, the word says that God [Elohim] called to Moses out of the bush. You are again limiting God by saying that He cannot personally call from the bush to Moses because He cannot be contained in the bush.

 

[cgaviria]

Please show your credentials if you are telling us how to translate this verse. If you haven't studied ancient Hebrew extensively, then don't claim that every Bible translator is wrong in their translation of this verse.


Actually, the word says that God [Elohim] called to Moses out of the bush. You are again limiting God by saying that He cannot personally call from the bush to Moses because He cannot be contained in the bush.

Credentials do not matter, even some of the apostles were unlearned men and had no credentials, although if it does matter, I happen to be an intelligent man in terms of the world, as I am a software engineer by trade and am highly sought after by fortune 500 companies here in America and very good at what I do and very successful, so I am not just some idiot Joe Schmoe reading some text and surmising whatever I want to surmise. I am smart, I study things thoroughly in detail, but because I want to know the actual truth, not what some hypocrite teaches behind a pulpit. I especially despise and loathe pastors of megachurches that teach their doctrines, while then flying in their private jets, while Iesou Christ did not even have a pillow to lay his head on. Also, these original texts are publicly available online and any person can look them up and study them. This being in the burning bush was indeed an angel, and called himself by name, YHWH. I did not come up with this, its in there. I do not claim to be anyone special, but I do have some insight. And I've chosen to share this insight over the past few months, as I felt compelled to do so.

 

[civilwarbuff]

1 Corinthians 2:14

 

[nomadictheist]

Credentials do not matter, even some of the apostles were unlearned men and had no credentials,

Their credentials were that they were chosen and taught by the Messiah, and they passed what they learned down via the word of God.

although if it does matter, I happen to be an intelligent man in terms of the world, as I am a software engineer by trade and am highly sought after by fortune 500 companies here in America and very good at what I do and very successful, so I am not just some idiot Joe Schmoe reading some text and surmising whatever I want to surmise. I am smart, I study things thoroughly in detail,

There's a difference between being smart and being an expert. I'm pretty smart by human standards. I'm really good at troubleshooting computer problems (former job) and writing marketing materials (current job), but if someone wanted to know how to fly an airplane I woulds refer them to somebody who knows how to do it.

The same goes for Hebrew and Greek translations. I've done my share of studying, and can use a lexicon/concordance as well as the next person, but there are people who have devoted a lot of time to studying the root languages because they want to know the truth. I respect those people and the fact that their opinion carries a lot more weight than mine by virtue of the fact that they have taken the time to learn and know what they are talking about, not because they're "smarter than I am" or vice versa.

but because I want to know the actual truth, not what some hypocrite teaches behind a pulpit.

I'm sure there are lots of hypocrites behind lots of pulpits, but that certainly doesn't account for every church in the world, or even the U.S., or even a specific state, city, or town. There is nothing in the doctrine of the mainstream orthodox church that cannot be supported by strong scriptural passages.

I especially despise and loathe pastors of megachurches that teach their doctrines, while then flying in their private jets, while Iesou Christ did not even have a pillow to lay his head on.

Despise and loathe are very strong words, and words that are strongly spoken against when applied to people.

Also, these original texts are publicly available online and any person can look them up and study them. This being in the burning bush was indeed an angel, and called himself by name, YHWH. I did not come up with this, its in there. I do not claim to be anyone special, but I do have some insight. And I've chosen to share this insight over the past few months, as I felt compelled to do so.

As you yourself have acknowledge, prepositions didn't exist in the original Hebrew language. Thus, interpreters insert prepositions where the context makes the meaning clear.

In this example, after God [Elohim] called to Moses from the midst of the bush, He [Elohim] named Himself YHWH. Similarly, we read in Genesis that God [Elohim] created the heavens and the earth, and in chapter 2 that the LORD God [literally Elohim YHWH] created the heavens and the earth. Thus YHWH is seen already in the OT as a specific person of the being Elohim.

 

[Commander Xenophon]

And again, these are matters that I have proven are in scripture.

No, you haven't; you presented an argument, one which contains errors and is to be rejected.

Baptism of holy spirit imparts perfection.

A baptism you have admitted to not having received.

It is the only way to actually walk fully straight before God. If I believed as you, I would surely be out in the world, partying, drinking, enjoying all my money and success and youth, and then going to church every Sunday asking God for forgiveness. And why not, we all sin anyways, right????????

I don't do any of those things. I am not "moneyed" or "placed," I am aged, I live a mighty simple life. If you think that all being sinless entails is refusing to participate in the most depraved antics of twenty-somethings, you're wrong. The Pharisees were ostensibly pious, and even regarded themselves, I think, as above sin. They were obviously dead wrong.

 

[Commander Xenophon]

"My grace is sufficient for you" is better translated, in my opinion, as , "my favor is sufficient for you", and it means that even in spite of sufferings, beating, and persecution, just the mere favor of God is sufficient because if you are favored by God, even though you may go through all these things in this current time for a little season, you will indeed overcome all these things and thus be rewarded, because of his favor, hence why his favor is sufficient.

I don't believe it; once again you're rewriting the Holy Bible to say what you want it to say!

 

[Wgw]

I don't believe it; once again you're rewriting the Holy Bible to say what you want it to say!

Par for the course, I'd say.

 

[supersoldier71]

I am not on here to entertain foolish babbles. I am here to discuss scripture. Whether English is my own native tongue, or if I consider you an enemy or not, or concerns for my well being, etc.... are babbles. Lets discuss scripture, or move on to the next person to engage in your babbles.

...Aaaand roger...

You have again demonstrated yourself to be the fool. I offer friendship as one believer to another, but I find myself one believer short.

You cannot obey the second great commandment because the first is alien to you. You do not know Scripture. And you lack the sophistication to even disguise yourself as an angel of light. Paul commands us to "Do all that you can to live in peace with everyone" (Romans 12:18, NLT), but you cannot even fake living peaceably with people who have done you NO HARM. What then if you faced real persecution as our real brothers and sisters across the globe face? What then? Your witness is as empty as your words and as baseless as your logic.

What you have done is demonstrate--AGAIN---that you do not love God, you love yourself and your "clever" theologies.

What you have done, in front of God and the rest of the Body is demonstrate that you are a "pagan", a "corrupt tax collector", not one of the Body.

And should be treated as such.

Good night.

May God be merciful on you, because clearly, you are an empty tomb.

God bless.

 

[cgaviria]

...Aaaand roger...

You have again demonstrated yourself to be the fool. I offer friendship as one believer to another, but I find myself one believer short.

You cannot obey the second great commandment because the first is alien to you. You do not know Scripture. And you lack the sophistication to even disguise yourself as an angel of light. Paul commands us to "Do all that you can to live in peace with everyone" (Romans 12:18, NLT), but you cannot even fake living peaceably with people who have done you NO HARM. What then if you faced real persecution as our real brothers and sisters across the globe face? What then? Your witness is as empty as your words and as baseless as your logic.

What you have done is demonstrate--AGAIN---that you do not love God, you love yourself and your "clever" theologies.

What you have done, in front of God and the rest of the Body that you are a "pagan", a "corrupt tax collector", not one of the Body.

And should be treated as such.

Good night.

May God be merciful on you, because clearly, you are an empty tomb.

God bless.

I'll be the better person and not report you for calling me an empty tomb. Bye.

 

[redleghunter]

Apparently everyone other than you, because to date I've found no one else who regards YHWH as a creature

I believe this is not completely accurate. I believe the Mormons have similar views of 'god beings' lesser than God. But not even Mormons deny only YHWH is the One True God.

 

[cgaviria]

I believe this is not completely accurate. I believe the Mormons have similar views of 'god beings' lesser than God. But not even Mormons deny only YHWH is the One True God.

I have heard this about the Mormons, but I am not a Mormon nor have I indulged in studying their beliefs. I just simply take scripture for what it says. There are indeed gods, its in there in the bible.

 

[Wgw]

I have heard this about the Mormons, but I am not a Mormon nor have I indulged in studying their beliefs. I just simply take scripture for what it says. There are indeed gods, its in there in the bible.

On this point, old chap, I very much wish you might desist from the tiresome sola scriptura argument, for as many have pointed out, you do not actually take scripture for what it says; you instead simply modify it wnerecer it suits your own personal interpretation. And that I suspect, combined with the distasteful experience of reading continual threats of impending hellfire, accounts for the relative lack of enthusiasm with which your novel theological interpretation has been received.

Honey and vinegar, and all that.

 

[redleghunter]

There are indeed gods, its in there in the bible.

Yes indeed, but as noted there is only One True God and His Name given is YHWH. There are no 'little gods' running around with The Name (HaShem---YHWH)

 

[cgaviria]

On this point, old chap, I very much wish you might desist from the tiresome sola scriptura argument, for as many have pointed out, you do not actually take scripture for what it says; you instead simply modify it wnerecer it suits your own personal interpretation. And that I suspect, combined with the distasteful experience of reading continual threats of impending hellfire, accounts for the relative lack of enthusiasm with which your novel theological interpretation has been received.

Honey and vinegar, and all that.

I won't desist from anything, as this I am a member of this forum just as you are. I am on here in hopes to impart truth to ones that are discerning and understanding. I won't be on here much longer, so you can be glad then when I am gone out of here.

 

[cgaviria]

Yes indeed, but as noted there is only One True God and His Name given is YHWH. There are no 'little gods' running around with The Name (HaShem---YHWH)

There is indeed only one true God, the Father. And there are also little gods. Both things are true and both things are taught by scripture.

 

[nomadictheist]

I have heard this about the Mormons, but I am not a Mormon nor have I indulged in studying their beliefs. I just simply take scripture for what it says. There are indeed gods, its in there in the bible.

If you take scripture for what it says, can we revisit the verses that you don't take for what they say?

For instance, John 1:3, Exodus 3:4, Genesis 2:4, Hebrews 1:1-10, Isaiah 45:5... we can start there and you can take those for what they say. If you don't, you testify against yourself.

 

[civilwarbuff]

"I and the Father" are one figuratively, not literally. Whenever a husband marries a wife, they are one, figuratively, not literally.
The elect are one figuratively, it doesn't mean that they are all literally the same person. Being one is a figure of speech to indicate a union, being of the same mind, it does not literally mean they are the exact same person. The Father and Iesou Christ are figuratively ONE, but they are two distinct beings. This is obvious to the understanding mind.

Are you blind? I just provided 2 scripture references in that same quote you just replied to.

No, you provided one fragment attached to your interpretation of it. Scripture means Chapter & Verse.....not fragments.

 

[cgaviria]

If you take scripture for what it says, can we revisit the verses that you don't take for what they say?

For instance, John 1:3, Exodus 3:4, Genesis 2:4, Hebrews 1:1-10, Isaiah 45:5... we can start there and you can take those for what they say. If you don't, you testify against yourself.

Sure, lets take one scripture at a time. I can be reasoned with, with scripture, so I like your approach. So yes, lets start with John 1:3, what about this verse do you think refutes my statements?

 

[nomadictheist]

Sure, lets take one scripture at a time. I can be reasoned with, with scripture, so I like your approach. So yes, lets start with John 1:3, what about this verse do you think refutes my statements?

All things [Greek Panta, without a modifier meaning "all things"] were made by Him, and without Him not one thing [according to greek scholars who know the language better than I do, this is a specific, strong statement that is best interpreted "not even a single thing"] was made that was made.

If everything was made through Jesus Christ, and not even one thing that was made was made without Him, He could clearly not be a created being.

Now again, because you claim to take scripture "for what it says," without modifying this verse and including words that aren't there, how would you dispute this?

 

[nomadictheist]

I believe this is not completely accurate. I believe the Mormons have similar views of 'god beings' lesser than God. But not even Mormons deny only YHWH is the One True God.

There is also (though not around today, so far as I know) a sect of the ancient gnostic heretics, who believed that YHWH was a created god who created the world, and that Jesus was also a created god, and that there was a god above them both. These were refuted, of course, by the early church fathers. But I see a lot of similarities to both Mormon teachings and these ancient heresies in what is being "offered" here.