Extraneous
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Thanks. IM not interested anymore. Whatever people want to be true is true as far as i am concerned. Its not my problem.
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The snare of devotion to Mary.
- Thread starter Zeek
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Thanks. IM not interested anymore. Whatever people want to be true is true as far as i am concerned. Its not my problem.
- Oct 17, 2009
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First, Mary is God's mother, then you say she's his daughter, and now we're back to mother again. It almost sounds like you're just making this stuff up as you go along, which is worse than following oral traditions. Why not just stick to the facts and the written word of God?
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patricius79
Called to Jesus Through Mary
The holy creature Mary is the Created Daughter of God the Father, the Mother of God the Son, and the Wife of God the Holy Spirit.
The Catholic Church believes that Jesus is God, and believes that God is the Trinity. Thus, Mary is the Mother of God.
The written Word of God says to hold fast to both the written and oral traditions.
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- Nov 28, 2003
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As Christians we are all co-heirs with the Son and are able to call God, Father. Mary is also a child of God in that sense, but she is also the mother of Jesus Christ who is God, so she is also mother of God.
All biblical.
What sounds off is calling Mary the spouse of the Holy Spirit. Yes, the Holy Spirit overshadowed her in a way that has not occured with anyone else, causing her to conceive God the Son in her womb, but that does not make her 'married' to the Holy Spirit.
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So Mary is the Father's daughter, yet she gave birth to the Father's Son. In order for this to not be totally perverted, Mary would have to be God the Father's wife. Otherwise, you're saying God the Father had incest with His own daughter in order to give birth to the Son; Jesus Christ.
But it never said to create whatever traditions you want, especially the worship of any created being, including Mary.
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What an unbelievably base and carnal interpretation.
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Commander Xenophon
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Commander Xenophon
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Our Lord did not become incarnate as the result of sexual coitus between the Father and St. Mary. The Holy Spirit impregnated her without coition. From this, we can say there is a distinction between our Lord's eternal generation from the Father, as His Son, and the origination of His assumed human nature.
We don't offer worship to the Theotokos. Extreme veneration, yes, but not worship.
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Take a look at Patricius's signature line and tell me that's true.
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What an unbelievably base and carnal interpretation.
Well, why not? These "oral traditions" I hear about keep changing based on whatever argument seems best to make at the time. I'm just showing how they don't make any sense.
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Commander Xenophon
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@Patricius is not Orthodox; when I say "we" I am not presuming to pontificate on behalf of the Roman pontiff.
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patricius79
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Yes, Mary--the highest creature-- is the Father's Daughter. She is also the Mother of Jesus, who is God the Son. This does not mean that Mary is God the Father's wife. Rather, she conceived Jesus Christ, our brother and God, through the Holy Spirit, her Divine Spouse. These are spiritual realities, not carnal realities. The historic Church doesn't create whatever traditions she wants. She holds fast to the traditions as they were given, whether orally or by letter, as the Bible says to do. Christ's Church doesn't worship Mary, but gives her extreme veneration because she conceived our Savior and is the New Eve, our Mother, the our Mediatrix with Jesus Christ.
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- Dec 25, 2015
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Yes, that is a very silly notion...
One Orthodox theologoumenon is the understanding that
just as God formed Eve from the rib of Adam,
so also did God the Holy Spirit form Christ in the womb of the Blessed Virgin...
Arsenios
PS - A theologoumenon is a pious Orthodox theological opinion
that has not been dogmatized in the Church...
A.
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patricius79
Called to Jesus Through Mary
Mary is the Spouse of the Holy Spirit, as the Catholic Church says. This is a spiritual intimacy, not an ordinary human one. The language used in Luke is actually marital, sexual language in the Hebrew language. "The Holy Spirit will come upon you and the power of the Most High will overshadow you."
But this is to express the spiritual marriage between Mary and the Holy Spirit, not a carnal one.
Mary conceived Christ (Luke 1:31) by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit conceived Christ in Mary's pure womb.
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It means to be filled with the Holy Spirit effecting some holy purpose...
The marital sexual language comes from Paul and is in regard to the Church,
and specifically to us who are members of the Church...
And the matter is a Mystery known to the Saints...
Paul did not explain it further...
Arsenios
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- Dec 25, 2015
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You are confusing the Agency of the Holy Spirit with what you call His "Spiritual Marriage" to the Blessed Virgin...
God created Eve from the rib of Adam...
Does this make Adam the spouse of God?
Arsenios
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Goatee
Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.
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What better way to love Jesus than to love his Blessed Mother? She is above all creatures in Heaven and on Earth. Father, Son and Holy Spirit are directly above her.
She mediates for us to her Son. She intercedes for us her children.
I am reading a great book at present called "True Devotion to Mary" By Louis - Marie De Montfort
In there is a fabulous explanation for those that dont understand Our deep love of Mary etc.
Nobody 'worships' Mary. I dont know of anyone that does!
She is the Queen of Heaven!
She mediates for us to her Son. She intercedes for us her children.
I am reading a great book at present called "True Devotion to Mary" By Louis - Marie De Montfort
In there is a fabulous explanation for those that dont understand Our deep love of Mary etc.
Nobody 'worships' Mary. I dont know of anyone that does!
She is the Queen of Heaven!
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- Dec 25, 2015
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The Marriage of the Lamb is to the Saints Who ARE the actual flesh and blood Body of Christ on earth NOW...
The Lamb is Christ, and WE are His Bride...
Patricius is claiming that your Latin Church teaches that a mortal woman is married, not to the Ascended Christ, but to the Third Person of the Holy Trinity of God, in some kind of Spiritual Marriage, and this BECAUSE it was the Holy Spirit Who ACTED on Her that She conceive Christ in Her womb...
And the simple fact is that this does NOT comprise a MARRIAGE to a Spouse...
Arsenios
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