Is the Church raptured? OR do we FLEE to a place of safety!? Find out!

ewq1938

I love you three.
Christian Forums Staff
Administrator
Site Supporter
Nov 5, 2011
44,420
6,800
✟916,705.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Matthew 24 is about the Destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70. Has absolutely NOTHING to do with some strange and unbiblical idea of a "rapture."
Matthew 24 is not about Ad 70 because Christ did not return nor gather together his elect with angels in Ad 70...both are part of the Olivet discourse and promised to happen to that described generation.

The only thing that happened in Ad 70 from Matthew 24 is the temple destruction and that wasn't part of the olivet discourse because it was given before they arrived on the Mt of olives.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Berean777
Upvote 0

Berean777

Servant of Christ Jesus. Stellar Son.
Feb 12, 2014
3,283
586
✟22,009.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
No, when it comes to the one taken and one left It is Christ doing the taking and leaving and it happens at the second coming. He takes the righteous (called the rapture) and leaves/rejects (that's what the Greek word means) the unsaved.

The 70AD second coming eschatology, is a hoax and is destructive to the faith once given to the saints.

The point made of a person being taken, points to the example given by Jesus Christ, that is the days of Noah, where those who were going about their day to day jobs were taken. What took them?

Death. Death suddenly took them away from what they were doing. Just like the example of two men in the field or two women at the mill doing their own thing are overcome by death. This taking is pointing to the judgement that follows after a person dies. So that no one knows the day and hour that they are taken or die, but only the life giver who is God.

Jesus symbolised death as the thief, who takes away a person from what they are doing. So does this relate to 70AD or to anyone throughout the generations?

To anyone throughout generations.

Everyone is destined to die once then judgement as Paul once said. So there is a conscious anticipation of what judgement is served after death, otherwise the Lord would not have said....

It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns.47Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions.48But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’49and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards.50The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of.51He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 24:46-51)

If the message only applied to the recipient's upto 70AD, then we have an unresolvable contradiction.

Can you figure it out?

Hmmmmm..........
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Berean777

Servant of Christ Jesus. Stellar Son.
Feb 12, 2014
3,283
586
✟22,009.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Full Preterism denies conscious anticipation of what judgement is to come after one is taken (raptured), that is dies.

Full Preterism is silent on the question of afterlife and in this regard their resurrection of the dead is tied to the recipient's who are living and before rapture (death) and not to the departed who have been raptured. In conceivably the contradiction in plain sight is that the living realise a form of spiritual resurrection of the dead, from the carnal ways of the flesh to being dead to the world. Paul rules out this false resurrection when he said that my departure is near and now the Lord has prepared for me, but also to all those who are departing with joy, consciously knowing that they will behold his Appearing and to recieve their crown lf righteousness.

Obvioisly to the full Preterist since recieving eternal inheritance is in this life, then they do not look to the afterlife. Paul and the believers did look forward and in anticipation and with gladness to what they were to recieve after they depart from this life. The Hebrews writer states that eternal inheritance is only recieved after the teststor dies.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hank77
Upvote 0

ewq1938

I love you three.
Christian Forums Staff
Administrator
Site Supporter
Nov 5, 2011
44,420
6,800
✟916,705.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
The point made of a person being taken, points to the example given by Jesus Christ, that is the days of Noah, where those who were going about their day to day jobs were taken. What took them?

Death. Death suddenly took them away from what they were doing.

Yes but the one taken and one left applies before that. It was Noah and his family that was taken into the Ark, and taken to saftey, while the wicked were left (the word means rejected) to die.

Same with the story of Lot. Lot and his family were TAKEN out of harms way while the wicked were LEFT to die.

That is the true taken and left.
 
Upvote 0

Berean777

Servant of Christ Jesus. Stellar Son.
Feb 12, 2014
3,283
586
✟22,009.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Yes but the one taken and one left applies before that. It was Noah and his family that was taken into the Ark, and taken to saftey, while the wicked were left (the word means rejected) to die.

Firstly, It is your onus to prove that the context of Matthew 24 applies solely to Noah and the people that were in Noah's time.

Secondly, Matthew versus do not state that Noah and his family were taken. Scripture states......

37But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; (Matthew 24:37-39)

The flood came and took Noah and his family away??????

no, no no!

The flow came and took all those who were not in the ark away?

Yes!

So the suddenness of them being taken away was pointing to their inevitable end, their deaths. The thief, which is the symbol of death took them away, when they knew not the day nor the hour when the theif came and destroyed their earthly tent of their body.

You have summed up full Preterism in that it reverses every meaning and every intention of the Bible to make the resurrection of the dead a state of mind, instead of the anticpation of what is to come in the afterlife, the Lord's second coming as a symbol of judgment upon Jerusalem, rather than the end of the great harvest of God which encompasses all the new covenant age. The Lord's coming applied to the good and the wicked and it encompassed all generations from the cross and onwards as the recipients of the message. 70AD is a hoax that twists everything to make the opposite fit. The rule of thumb is to believe the opposite of what full preterists believe.

Same with the story of Lot. Lot and his family were TAKEN out of harms way while the wicked were LEFT to die.

That is the true taken and left.

That is your example and not the Lord's example, so why go there?
 
Upvote 0

Berean777

Servant of Christ Jesus. Stellar Son.
Feb 12, 2014
3,283
586
✟22,009.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Paul an apostle of Christ looked forward to recieving what...........

His eternal crown of righteousness that the Lord will give him, when........

After he departs from his earthly tent of his body.

they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 16For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. (Hebrews 9:15-17)

Since Paul preached for 15 years plus in his ministry he never said that he had received his crown of righteousness or his eternal inheritance as the full preterists claim to have today and specifically post 70AD. Instead the Hebrews writer above wrote that the receipt of eternal inheritance is only after a witness of Christ dies.

So in the versus below Paul clearly conveys that even after his 15 year ministry, that he has yet to receive his eternal inheritance during those 15 years of ministry, in the earthly body.

6For I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time for my departure is near. 7I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing. (2 Timothy 4:6-8)

This longing for the Lord's appearing is tied to what Jesus said.....

Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time?46It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns (Matthew 25:45-46)

How is the Lord returning to the departed like Saint Stephan and Saint Paul?

To those who longed for his appearing after they are raptured from this earthly life, to be reunited with the risen Lord in their incorruptible heavenly bodies, as lord from heaven (1 Corinthians 15:47).

So what is that day that the faithful await?

After they have finished their race and kept the faith unto death and at the moment after death, the witness is then in receipt of the eternal inheritance promised and not before, whilst he still remains alive.

That day that Paul alludes to is when he is taken by the thief, which is the symbol of death. Death parts us from this world and presents us before the Lord for judgment.....

Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, (Hebrews 9:27)

So Paul was obviously looking to receive his reward after he is put to death. Full preterists say that they have already recieved their crown of righteousness. So who will you believe, Paul or the full preterists.

Finally, full preterists have concocted a idea that Paul had no part of the eternal inheritance, because he died before the second coming of Christ in 70AD, therefore making Paul a witness of the old covenant. This is the full preterists debacle, which states that the new covenant only began after 70AD. This white wash by the full preterists is a foley at work that flies in the face of the apostolic teachings. The apostles clearly emphasised that from the cross they lived and breathed as free men under the new covenant and that the promise to eternal inheritance was availed to them after they die. The preterists say that Paul and the apostles before 70AD fell under the old covenant and did not recieve their eternal inheritance, because eternal inheritance was available only after 70AD.

8By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going. 9By faith he made his home in the promised land like a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise. (Hebrews 11:8-9)

13All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth. 14People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. 15If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. 16Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them. (Hebrews 11:13-16)

39These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised, 40since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect. (Hebrews 11:39-40)

The writer of Hebrews references the Old Testament men of God as having been made the promise to recieve their eternal inheritance, but had not yet recieved it. The receipt of the promise was only recieved by the apostles after the cross. If Paul and the apostles who lived and died before 70AD had not received the promise to eternal life, then they also would have been mentioned as part of the list above. Therefore the full preterists eschatology is flawed, right down to its core.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

ewq1938

I love you three.
Christian Forums Staff
Administrator
Site Supporter
Nov 5, 2011
44,420
6,800
✟916,705.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Firstly, It is your onus to prove that the context of Matthew 24 applies solely to Noah and the people that were in Noah's time.

Already done, see last post.


Secondly, Matthew versus do not state that Noah and his family were taken. Scripture states......

Just read the account, everyone and everything was in fact taken into the ark, and the ark did take them to a new home.

The flood came and took Noah and his family away??????

Yes...water takes a boat away to a new place.



The flow came and took all those who were not in the ark away?

Yes, they drowned but only because they were left/rejected and not worthy of being taken into the ark.



The rule of thumb is to believe the opposite of what full preterists believe.

Agreed.




That is your example and not the Lord's example, so why go there?

It is from the scripture actually so I "go there" because I only accept the truth not what's popular yet incorrect.
 
Upvote 0

Berean777

Servant of Christ Jesus. Stellar Son.
Feb 12, 2014
3,283
586
✟22,009.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Already done, see last post.

No, I politely disagree.

Just read the account, everyone and everything was in fact taken into the ark, and the ark did take them to a new home.

Yes...water takes a boat away to a new place.

Twist and twist, a little more, a aaahhhhh......... No!

The subjects are not Noah and his family, rather the subjects are those who were eating and drinking and marrying and given in marriage.

Jesus talks about two parties of people here, the saved by the ark who are not taken and those who are not saved who are taken by the thief/death. The contextual statement applies to the thief and not to the water....

43But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Matthew 24:43


Yes, they drowned but only because they were left/rejected and not worthy of being taken into the ark.

Agreed.

It is from the scripture actually so I "go there" because I only accept the truth not what's popular yet incorrect.

The context applies to being taken by the thief/death. Both the good and the wicked are being taken away as scripture testifies....."Who then is a faithful and wise servant"

45Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? 46Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 47Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. 48But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; 49And shall begin to smite hisfellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; 50The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, 51And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Since taking away or raptured out of earthly play/life, happens to everyone, then the message of warning is to be watchful, meaning vigilant in faith and don't be complacent by saying that the Lord delays his coming. You see if the Lord's coming is 70AD, then the way the statement is written grammatically makes a specific day, month, year irrelevant, because it is focussed on the state of the faithful, when death comes knocking on the door of that faithful, as to whether he has stayed the course and kept the faith, or he has strayed from the faith as the example of the faithful who smites his fellow servants and eats and drinks with the drunken, by living a debaucherous life.
 
Upvote 0

ewq1938

I love you three.
Christian Forums Staff
Administrator
Site Supporter
Nov 5, 2011
44,420
6,800
✟916,705.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
No, I politely disagree.



Twist and twist, a little more, a aaahhhhh......... No!

lol....do you think the ark stayed in one place? Or did the flood take those in the ark away somewhere else? It's a dual meaning there...ALL were taken away, some drowned and some did not (in the ark)


The subjects are not Noah and his family, rather the subjects are those who were eating and drinking and marrying and given in marriage.

Lot's story is also part of this:

Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.


In both stories the first thing that happened is the righteous are taken to safety, then those left behind are killed. That cannot be denied.



Jesus talks about two parties of people here, the saved by the ark who are not taken and those who are not saved who are taken by the thief/death.

You have it backwards though. Death takes the left behind not those "taken. How much have you studied the word TAKEN? How many hours? Did you know there are two Greek words translated "taken" and they don't have the same meanings?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Berean777

Servant of Christ Jesus. Stellar Son.
Feb 12, 2014
3,283
586
✟22,009.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
lol....do you think the ark stayed in one place? Or did the flood take those in the ark away somewhere else? It's a dual meaning there...ALL were taken away, some drowned and some did not (in the ark)

No, that is not the point of the message that the Lord is trying to convey. The Lord is specifically conveying that the state of one's watchfulness or vigilance in faith at the moment of being taken away, will determine their fate as to whether they are recipients of this statement or not.....

Who then is the faithful and wise servant

That is the challenge question that the Lord throws in the air to all. As Paul would say a servant would need to finish their race of faith, by keeping the faith even onto the death of their body. The Lord's words are Spirit and not alluding to physical water taking people away. He gave further examples of the two men in the field, where one was taken away and the two women working at the mill, where one was taken away. So the message of being taken away is to anyone, when their day and hour comes, when the thief/death comes to destroy their tent of their earthly body.

Lot's story is also part of this:

Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Again the Lord's message is spiritual relating to the state of faith of that particular individual. In Lot's days instead of the water taking away the sinful inhabitants of Sodom, fire came down to take them away. The result of their taking away is death, the symbol of the thief. In Noah's days it was the water that took them away. So the common theme of being taken away is related to the subjects to are succumb to death.


In both stories the first thing that happened is the righteous are taken to safety, then those left behind are killed. That cannot be denied.

No contextual relevance to the one left behind. In your scenario everyone is being taken away in one direction or another, but the common theme of being taken away is death, where death takes away an individual from their day to day activities.

You have it backwards though. Death takes the left behind not those "taken. How much have you studied the word TAKEN? How many hours? Did you know there are two Greek words translated "taken" and they don't have the same meanings?

No, taken is death. Those who were eating and delinking and giving in marriage were taken away. There is no contextual relevance of Noah or Lot being taken away in either scenario.

The statement that supports that death is taken away is reiterated three times with in one paragraph and that is...

36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

50The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, 51And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

So the coming of the Lord is within the context of being taken away. The wicked is taken away in the example and in this regard, if the wicked is being taken away as well as the good servant, then taken away is for the good and the wicked alike, which points to death itself.
 
  • Like
Reactions: timewerx
Upvote 0

Berean777

Servant of Christ Jesus. Stellar Son.
Feb 12, 2014
3,283
586
✟22,009.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Death brings us before our Lord for judgment, for the works done in the body. We are being taken or raptured from this earthly life by the advent of death itself. Paul longed for the appearing of the Lord after knowing that his time of departure was near.
 
Upvote 0

timewerx

the village i--o--t--
Aug 31, 2012
15,281
5,909
✟300,200.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Single
No, when it comes to the one taken and one left It is Christ doing the taking and leaving and it happens at the second coming. He takes the righteous (called the rapture) and leaves/rejects (that's what the Greek word means) the unsaved.

No, don't be stubborn, read Matthew 24 again.

Christ compared the "rapture" to the Great Flood of Genesis.

Who did the flood took? The wicked men. Who did the flood spared? the righteous family of Noah.

Who will inherit the Earth? The meek, not the wicked.
 
Upvote 0

timewerx

the village i--o--t--
Aug 31, 2012
15,281
5,909
✟300,200.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Single
No, taken is death. Those who were eating and delinking and giving in marriage were taken away. There is no contextual relevance of Noah or Lot being taken away in either scenario.

The statement that supports that death is taken away is reiterated three times with in one paragraph and that is...

It's funny, so what is the Ark, a spaceship with teleportation tech??

"Scotty, beam up me!"


Why do many Christians take it out of context is beyond belief.... Even if we say, everyone is taken both wicked and good and sent to different places, then what's the point??? If the Earth has been rid of evil people, then it becomes a paradise! No need for good people to be taken to somewhere else!

As the Bible also said, the "meek will inherit the Earth". The Earth, The Earth, The Earth, The Earth...... Although from my strange head, I interpreted this to be the whole galaxy.... The Earth is God's name for our Galaxy. It has four corners (four major spiral arms) and generally flat.

A "flood" will get rid of all the wicked people off of our galaxy... I believe this "flood" to be an army of space-faring robots with Artificial Intelligence.
 
Upvote 0

Shempster

ImJustMe
Site Supporter
Dec 28, 2014
1,560
786
✟258,881.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
One thing I can tell you all is that you can only come up with a solid thesis from one particular point of view or angle.
All sides site scripture to prove all sides. Each say the other side is mistaken and both sides are but in different ways.
That tells me that the truth of what will actually happen is well hidden.
It must be that God wants it to be a surprise to us (because He loves us) and Satan (because he will be caught off guard)

So we can do this all day, month, year....everyone goes home with a bloody nose on this subject.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

cgaviria

Well-Known Member
Nov 23, 2015
1,854
184
37
Fort Lauderdale, FL
Visit site
✟23,353.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
I find it amazing how confused so many are about what happens to Gods people prior to Christ's return! 1 cor 15:52 clearly says we're made perfect at the sound of the LAST TRUMPET! Which is rev 11:15. ....1 Thess 4:52 is also referring to this moment. The Church is NOT raptured prior to this!

Where does the Church go! Christ tells us to FLEE when we see the abomination of desolation! Where are we fleeing to? What is the abomination of desolation? If you Don't know what it is then how will you know to flee when it happens!?

Scripture promises that God’s most faithful people will be protected from the terrible events that will befall our world before Christ returns. Will you receive that protection?

http://www.tomorrowsworld.org/telecasts/escape-the-great-tribulation#sthash.FUJvDwKs.dpuf

The abomination of desolation already happened, and it's fulfillment occurred during the time of the destruction of Jerusalem. The church will be raptured at the time of the second coming of Iesou Christ, as the church will be gathered together by angels to bring the elect to Christ to meet him in the air. The plagues that will befall the earth will not injure the elect, because just as God made a distinction between those that are his and not his with the plagues of Egypt, so will he make a distinction when the plagues of Revelation befall the earth.
 
Upvote 0

ewq1938

I love you three.
Christian Forums Staff
Administrator
Site Supporter
Nov 5, 2011
44,420
6,800
✟916,705.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Again the Lord's message is spiritual relating to the state of faith of that particular individual. In Lot's days instead of the water taking away the sinful inhabitants of Sodom, fire came down to take them away.

You are failing to understand that in both situations the righteous were taken to a place of safety BEFORE anything happening to the wicked. The one taken happens FIRST, the one LEFT is last. In both stories the ones TAKEN are Noah and Lot, the ones LEFT are the ones who are killed by God. Remember that in the Greek TAKEN means to receive to one's self or not reject and LEFT in the Greek means to reject and leave to die. I know this because I have studied the words, you clearly have not or you wouldn't apply them to the wrong people.


taken
3880

3880 paralambano {par-al-am-ban'-o}

from 3844 and 2983; TDNT - 4:11,495; v

AV - take 30, receive 15, take unto 2, take up 2, take away 1; 50

1) to take to, to take with one's self, to join to one's self
1a) an associate, a companion
1b) metaph.
1b1) to accept or acknowledge one to be such as he professes to be
1b2) not to reject, not to withhold obedience
2) to receive something transmitted
2a) an office to be discharged
2b) to receive with the mind
2b1) by oral transmission: of the authors from whom the
tradition proceeds
2b2) by the narrating to others, by instruction of teachers
(used of disciples)

"to take with one's self"
"to join to one's self"
"an associate"
"a companion"
"not to reject"



left
863

863 aphiemi {af-ee'-ay-mee}

from 575 and hiemi (to send, an intens. form of eimi, to go);
TDNT - 1:509,88; v

AV - leave 52, forgive 47, suffer 14, let 8, forsake 6, let alone 6,
misc 13; 146

1) to send away
1a) to bid going away or depart
1a1) of a husband divorcing his wife
1b) to send forth, yield up, to expire
1c) to let go, let alone, let be
1c1) to disregard
1c2) to leave, not to discuss now, (a topic)
1c21) of teachers, writers and speakers
1c3) to omit, neglect
1d) to let go, give up a debt, forgive, to remit
1e) to give up, keep no longer
2) to permit, allow, not to hinder, to give up a thing to a person
3) to leave, go way from one
3a) in order to go to another place
3b) to depart from any one
3c) to depart from one and leave him to himself so that all
mutual claims are abandoned
3d) to desert wrongfully
3e) to go away leaving something behind
3f) to leave one by not taking him as a companion
3g) to leave on dying, leave behind one
3h) to leave so that what is left may remain, leave remaining
3i) abandon, leave destitute

"to send away"
"of a husband divorcing his wife"
"to expire"
"to disregard"
"neglect"
"keep no longer"
"to leave on dying"
"leave behind one"
"abandon, leave destitute"

That's the complete opposite as being "taken" and is very negative. Do you
want to be rejected at the return of Christ or do you want to be accepted?
Christ takes the first one from the field and the rest is "left" by him, and
are "kept no longer".






Who was TAKEN into the Ark?
Who was LEFT outside the Ark?
Who was TAKEN to a safe place to live?
Who was LEFT to die in an unsafe place?

Who was TAKEN out of Sodom?
Who was LEFT in Sodom?
Who was TAKEN to a safe place to live?
Who was LEFT to die in an unsafe place?

Why does TAKEN/paralambano¯ mean to accept as a companion and does NOT mean to reject and leave to die?
Why does LEFT/aphie¯mi means to reject and leave someone to die and does NOT means to accept as a companion?

Why does TAKEN/paralambano¯ mean you survive?
Why does LEFT/aphie¯mi mean you do not survive?




There is no contextual relevance of Noah or Lot being taken away in either scenario.

Except they both are taken to a place of safety and both leave behind the wicked people. The wicked stay where they always have been, the righteous go somewhere else leaving the wicked behind to suffer death. To be taken by water or fire is first of all not the meaning of TAKEN in the Greek as far as the "one taken". You are applying the wrong word and meaning plus by the time anyone was "taken" by the flood they had already been left behind! The "one taken" had already happened before the flood took anyone.





The statement that supports that death is taken away is reiterated three times with in one paragraph and that is...



So the coming of the Lord is within the context of being taken away. The wicked is taken away in the example and in this regard, if the wicked is being taken away as well as the good servant, then taken away is for the good and the wicked alike, which points to death itself.


You have it completely wrong.
 
Upvote 0

ewq1938

I love you three.
Christian Forums Staff
Administrator
Site Supporter
Nov 5, 2011
44,420
6,800
✟916,705.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
No, don't be stubborn, read Matthew 24 again.

Christ compared the "rapture" to the Great Flood of Genesis.

Who did the flood took? The wicked men. Who did the flood spared? the righteous family of Noah.

You are still misreading it as far as the one taken and the one left. You are looking at everything after the one taken and one left have been decided. You have to back up to before the flood came to understand who is taken and left. See the above post.
 
Upvote 0

timewerx

the village i--o--t--
Aug 31, 2012
15,281
5,909
✟300,200.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Single
TAKEN are Noah and Lot, the ones LEFT are the ones who are killed by God. Remember that in the Greek TAKEN means to receive to one's self or not reject and LEFT in the Greek means to reject and leave to die. I know this because I have studied the words, you clearly have not or you wouldn't apply them to the wrong people.


We are talking about Matthew 24 and not Sodom and the context is very clear.

Noah and his family entered the Ark.

Matthew 24:38
For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark;


The wicked are taken by the flood

Matthew 24:39
and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man

This verse immediately followed the two above:

Matthew 24:40
Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Berean777
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

ewq1938

I love you three.
Christian Forums Staff
Administrator
Site Supporter
Nov 5, 2011
44,420
6,800
✟916,705.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
We are talking about Matthew 24 and not Sodom and the context is very clear.

Lot is used with Noah in Luke.


Noah and his family entered the Ark.

Matthew 24:38
For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark;

Same difference. The ark was built to TAKE people and animals inside to keep them safe.




The wicked are taken by the flood

Matthew 24:39
and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man

Which is a different Greek word and meaning than the one used in the "one TAKEN".



This verse immediately followed the two above:

Matthew 24:40
Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left.


The one taken is safe in the Ark, the one left (which means rejected which you fail to comment upon) is the one left to die as per the words definition.

If you don't study the words in the original language you WON'T be able to understand this topic properly.
 
  • Like
Reactions: civilwarbuff
Upvote 0