7 year peace treaty, what 7 year peace treaty?

[Luke17:37]

You are correct and you also just eliminated the premillennial position.

Forget everything you have ever heard from the mouth of a man, watched in a movie, or read in a book and read the Word of God.

Take it at face value, without trying to make it fit something else.


Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
(The kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of God and Christ "forever" at the 7th trumpet. How long is forever?)



Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
(God's wrath and the time of the judgment of the dead happens right after the 7th trumpet.)

2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
(Christ judges both those alive and dead at His appearing.)

Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Joh 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
(Here we have the bodily resurrection of all the dead, both good and evil, brackets above and below by Christ's judgment.)

Why can't we just take God's Word at face value, instead of trying to make it fit what we have been taught by a manmade doctrine?
.

Ha! You just eliminated the rest of my post in which I reaffirmed my believe in a literal thousand year reign of Jesus... where babies are born, which doesn't happen in the new heavens and the new earth.

 

[precepts]

We have to look at what the colon does in the Daniel 9:26 verse... because while I can find samples of sentences (as a list) following a colon, in my brief search, so far, I have not found a precise exact example that would equate to Daniel 9:26 because it is not a everyday type sentence structure, mainly.

Go back to Genesis and start scanning down through the text, chapter to chapter, from the beginning. You will notice that the majority of the verses begin with an "And". What is being presented is a series of items - as time moves forward in the text. That's what the And's are signifying.

I went over to the MessiahTruth.com (countermissionary) Judaism site and asked Uri Yosef in the Hebrew language forum if the and's are in the Hebrew text in Genesis, as well. His response was...."Yes, the Hebrew texts also has those "And's", but in a particular form, and they convey the notion of continuity of the events in the account of Creation. In the Hebrew language the conjunctive "and" is actually a prefix that is attached to the word it modifies."

In Daniel 9:26, the and's in front of the independent clauses, following the colon, constitute as series of events that follow the messiah being cutoff, as time moves forward unto the completion of the 70 weeks. The and's in verse 26 are for the 70 weeks as it's time moves forward, not the messiah, because even the lead-in independent clause (containing the messiah) begins with an And. Just like how Genesis is written.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

That's what I thought. You can't find any links because the list that follows a colon do not include clauses. Clauses that follow a colon are appositive clauses, even the so-called "list" is appositive to the clause before the colon.

And I won't even get into the context or the right interpretation of vs 24 to 27 with you because I've explain the facts before, but you're not listening. It's not about A.D. events!

 

[Luke17:37]

Forget everything you have ever heard from the mouth of a man, watched in a movie, or read in a book and read the Word of God.

Take it at face value, without trying to make it fit something else.

I've been gaining eschatology convictions based on my own study of Scripture since I was a teenager. I didn't read Left Behind or commentaries or footnotes or anything else to learn--I read the Bible.

You could take your own advice and do a Biblical study on the physical reign of Jesus Christ as King on this earth. I gave you plenty of chapters to start with. To repeat: Psalm 2, Isaiah 2, Isaiah 11, Isaiah 65, Ezekiel 47, Zechariah 14, Revelation 20. Here's another: Psalms 72.

You appear to have a bias against the physical body/realm and against several Scriptures that say things you don't want to hear. I agree that Pre-Tribulation Rapture is a lie, but Dispensationalists affirm biblical doctrines of salvation and everything else. It seems like in your zeal against Pre-Tribulation rapture, you're assuming Dispensationalists can't see the truth about anything. That is a lie.

Don't take my words out of context again. I don't do that to you.

Good day.

 

[BABerean2]

S

I've been gaining eschatology convictions based on my own study of Scripture since I was a teenager. I didn't read Left Behind or commentaries or footnotes or anything else to learn--I read the Bible.

You could take your own advice and do a Biblical study on the physical reign of Jesus Christ as King on this earth. I gave you plenty of chapters to start with. To repeat: Psalm 2, Isaiah 2, Isaiah 11, Isaiah 65, Ezekiel 47, Zechariah 14, Revelation 20. Here's another: Psalms 72.

You appear to have a bias against the physical body/realm and against several Scriptures that say things you don't want to hear. I agree that Pre-Tribulation Rapture is a lie, but Dispensationalists affirm biblical doctrines of salvation and everything else. It seems like in your zeal against Pre-Tribulation rapture, you're assuming Dispensationalists can't see the truth about anything. That is a lie.

Don't take my words out of context again. I don't do that to you.

Good day.

Some of my friends are Dispensationalists, including a former pastor that graduated from Dallas Theological Seminary and is in our home Bible study group. My wife and I attend a Baptist Church, with a pastor who bragged recently that he uses "the old Scofield Bible".
I love these men, just like I love you.

The problem with Dispensational Theology is the Two Peoples of God doctrine.
It cannot be found in God's Word.
The only way of salvation until the Second Coming of Christ, is by being grafted into the Olive Tree of the New Blood Covenant of Jesus Christ.

Classic Dispensational Theology teaches that the Age of Grace will end at the Pretrib removal of the Church and then God will go back to dealing with the modern Jews under the Old Covenant system.
If I told you what I really think about this idea, they would throw me off of this forum.
I can say that it is the same reaction that Jesus had to the money-changers in the temple.

Somehow, and I still am having trouble figuring out how, Dispensationalists are able to ignore the scripture which destroys their doctrine.
.

 

[precepts]

Hi precepts,

So, I'm going to have to assume that it is your position that Nehemiah was not being honest in his assessment of Jerusalem.

Nehemiah spoke to king Artaxerxes:
“May the king live forever! Why should my face not look sad when the city where my ancestors are buried lies in ruins, and its gates have been destroyed by fire?” The king said to me, “What is it you want?” Then I prayed to the God of heaven, and I answered the king, “If it pleases the king and if your servant has found favor in his sight, let him send me to the city in Judah where my ancestors are buried so that I can rebuild it.”

To make a long story short, show me one verse that says Nehem built and finish the city and not the wall. There's not one verse in Nehem that says he built the city, but numerous declaring his building the wall.

Nehemiah declared during the reign of Artaxerxes that the city lay in ruins and the gates were destroyed by fire. But that can't be according to your 'facts'. Cyrus had already rebuilt the city by then, right? Nehemiah was not telling the truth. Do you suppose he just wanted more vacation time?

You're really starting to upset me. Did I not say Nehem was the rebuilding of the wall during the "troublous times," as prophesied in the 70wks? Did I not say the covenant was cutoff and provided the verses where Nehem resealed the covenant since it was discontinued by the :troublous times" attack on the rebuilt city? And did I not provide the historical event of the Egyptian-Greek revolt that was the cause for the attack on the rebuilt city? What do you think caused the walls to be broken down and gates burn if the city wasn't rebuilt since Babylon?

I don't doubt that Cyrus may well have had a hand in beginning the rebuilding process, but apparently by the time of Artaxerxes it wasn't finished. Cyrus may well have been the one to release the Jews to return to their homeland, but according to Nehemiah in the time of Artaxerxes the city still lay in ruins. There were Jews living in the area already. Nehemiah speaks to them about the destroyed city and encourages them to start the rebuilding effort. Is all of this not true according to the word of God?

There's no need for me to continue this conversation because you don't know the history. There isn't one verse in the book of Nehem that can prove he rebuilt anything else but the wall.

So, yes, Cyrus may have begun some rebuilding effort and certainly released the Jews to return to their homeland, but the city still lay in ruins and the gates destroyed in Artaxerxes day.

Why would the city still be in ruins 94yrs after Babylon when the building began when they left Babylon; ceased during the reign of the imposter called "Artaxerxes," for just one year; and was continued unhindered until the temple only is mentioned finished in the 6th year of the reign of Darius? Darius' 6th year of reign was 516bc. That is 71 yrs of unhindered building. How could Nehem finish it in 52 days, especially when the only recorded interruption was by the imposter that most take for the same Artaxerxes that they claim give the decree?

Now, as to the prophecy. It doesn't say, 'when the city begins to be rebuilt'; it doesn't say, 'when the people return from their captivity'. It says, 'when the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem goes forth...'. So let's stick with looking for what the prophecy says we are to be looking for. Artaxerxes issued a decree at the behest of Nehemiah to go and rebuild the city and its gates and gave Nehemiah letters that he could give to the neighboring kings ordering them to help out in the rebuilding effort.

Let's stick to the fact I provided the verses stating God gave Cyrus the right to free his people, to build the city, and to build the temple. Nowhere does God say he gave Artaxerxes the right to build the city. Your problem, like the rest of Chris-tianity, is reading comprehension and echoing what you've been taught.

I don't doubt God's word and I believe Isaiah's claim that God said that Cyrus, king of Persia, would rebuild His city, but that's not what the prophecy tells us to look for. The prophecy is based strictly and solely on a decree that was to be issued. That decree was issued in 444 B.C. and from there, if we count off the 69 sevens, we come to exactly when the Annointed one was with us and that is what the prophecy is foretelling. So, any date that you begin to count off the 69 sevens that does not end at the time of our Lord's visitation just has to be wrong concerning this prophecy. It just has to be because the prophecy clearly states that after the 69 sevens the Annointed one would be here and be cut off.

Cyrus decreed for Israel and all the nations under Babylon to go back to their homelands and rebuild both their cities and temples. That's the fact.

“Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’

Gabriel even tells Daniel very carefully to 'know and understand this...

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

It's irritating to listen to people speak about things they don't take the time out to research. You're chatting foolishness. If only you would have taken the time out to read and understand the text.

 

[Luke17:37]

S


Some of my friends are Dispensationalists, including a former pastor that graduated from Dallas Theological Seminary and is in our home Bible study group. My wife and I attend a Baptist Church, with a pastor who bragged recently that he uses "the old Scofield Bible".
I love these men, just like I love you.

The problem with Dispensational Theology is the Two Peoples of God doctrine.
It cannot be found in God's Word.
The only way of salvation until the Second Coming of Christ, is by being grafted into the Olive Tree of the New Blood Covenant of Jesus Christ.

Classic Dispensational Theology teaches that the Age of Grace will end at the Pretrib removal of the Church and then God will go back to dealing with the modern Jews under the Old Covenant system.
If I told you what I really think about this idea, they would throw me off of this forum.
I can say that it is the same reaction that Jesus had to the money-changers in the temple.

Somehow, and I still am having trouble figuring out how, Dispensationalists are able to ignore the scripture which destroys their doctrine.
.

I'm sure your friends will love you if they read how you patronize their beliefs. It sure sounds like you love me.

You are the only one I've ever heard say that Dispensationalists teach an end of grace and a return to the Sinai covenant for the salvation of the Jews of the Tribulation. I challenge you to find that anywhere in a doctrinal statement, or ask your friends if that's what they believe. I think you just misunderstand and misrepresent their beliefs.

My grandpa said if gap theory was good enough for Scofield, it was good enough for him. At 14, I and my 12 year old brother explained how that theory is debunked because it doesn't fit with Exodus 20:11 (and why). But he didn't admit learning anything. I believe Scofield has influenced many by legitimizing a non-literal interpretation of Genesis and teaching pre-Tribulation rapture. But God will judge his fruit, not me.

 

[Hank77]

You are the only one I've ever heard say that Dispensationalists teach an end of grace and a return to the Sinai covenant for the salvation of the Jews of the Tribulation.

They teach the return to animal sacrifices. Well known advocates are Tom Ice and Tim LaHaye.
http://www.pre-trib.org/data/pdf/Ice-WhySacrificesinTheMi.pdf

 

[Luke17:37]

They teach the return to animal sacrifices. Well known advocates are Tom Ice and Tim LaHaye.
http://www.pre-trib.org/data/pdf/Ice-WhySacrificesinTheMi.pdf

This article says nothing about animal sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins. It says the opposite.

There's nothing wrong with a peace offering to the Lord as one way of worshipping Him. Zechariah 14 indicates that the nations will send representatives to go up to Jerusalem to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles. That passage doesn't actually say how they will celebrate Feast of Tabernacles--just that they come to Jerusalem for it. I am sure they will celebrate it however Jesus wants.

 

[miamited]

Hi precepts,

Look, it doesn't matter if Nehemiah rebuilt the city. The prophecy doesn't say anything about 'who' would rebuild the city. I have, however, shown you a fairly convincing verse, I think, that should tell you that however God meant for Cyrus to rebuild the city and 'when' he meant for Cyrus to do that, Nehemiah, in the time of Artaxerxes says that the city and the gates lay in ruins.

Now, you can do with that what you like.

Yes, Isaiah wrote that God said that Cyrus would build His city. I'm sure that Cyrus did because God said so, but...

Most of the information that I have says that Cyrus rebuilt the temple. All well and good, but that isn't what the prophecy is about. It doesn't even mention the temple. I imagine that Cyrus, in God's estimation, rebuilt the 'city' by freeing the captives and allowing them to return to the city. After all, a city doesn't have to refer to just buildings, but can also be a large group of people living in one place. I don't know exactly what God meant or intended us to understand when He caused Isaiah to write that Cyrus was going to rebuild the city.

What I do know, is that in the time of Artaxerxes, Nehemiah declared that the city and the gates were in ruins and Artaxerxes, at Nehemiah's pleading, issued a decree or some sort of official documents giving Nehemiah the chance to go home and rebuild the city and to get help from some of the people in the area as far as supplies and such.

What I do know, is that Artaxerxes decree is believed to have been issued in 444 B.C. which fits perfectly with the prophecy that God gave unto Daniel foretelling the time of Jesus' arrival and death.

You are free to teach whatever you believe to be the truth, but you really should have someone redact the account of Nehemiah in your Scriptures if you're going to insist that the city was rebuilt before his day.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[miamited]

Hi again precepts,

Ok, I'm irritating you because you believe that I haven't researched the subject. I'm ok with that, but I am sorry that you are bothered by my posts.

Let's get down to brass tacks. Daniel 9 as regards the 70 sevens is obviously a prophecy. I think we can both agree on that. The prophecy gives an account of time. Gabriel says there will be this span and then the 'Anointed' would be here. How do you understand the prophecy?

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[Fusion77]

"]You are correct and you also just eliminated the premillennial position.

Forget everything you have ever heard from the mouth of a man, watched in a movie, or read in a book and read the Word of God.

Take it at face value, without trying to make it fit something else.


Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
(The kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of God and Christ "forever" at the 7th trumpet. How long is forever? It is a lot longer than 1,000 years.)



Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
(God's wrath and the time of the judgment of the dead happens right after the 7th trumpet.)

2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
(Christ judges both those alive and dead at His appearing.)

Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Joh 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
(Here we have the bodily resurrection of all the dead, both good and evil, bracketed above and below by Christ's judgment.)

Why can't we just take God's Word at face value, instead of trying to make it fit what we have been taught by a manmade doctrine?
.





[/QUOTE] BA Berean When you say,


Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
(The kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of God and Christ "forever" at the 7th trumpet. How long is forever? It is a lot longer than 1,000 years.)


How is this a case against a premillennialism?

It just states Christ shall reign forever. I'm with you on the rapture being at/after the 7th trump. However, it's hard to deny all the scriptures that point to a literal 1000 year reign on earth. This is hardly an argument against pre millenialism.


After the 7th trump the kingdoms of the world (earth) become the Kingdoms of God.

Revelation 20:6

6Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.


From that point forward, He will reign forever and ever. 1000 year liters reign on earth. Then what is Subsequently to transpire.

Revelation 20:7
7When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, 8and will come out to deceive the nations

After the 1000 years, Christ is still reigning and will forever more.

 

[Hank77]

This article says nothing about animal sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins. It says the opposite.

Neither did I say for forgiveness of sin, you added that. However.....Ezekiel does say that and ......

"The Millennium will return to a time in history when Israel will be God's mediatory people but will also continue to be a time in which sin will be present upon the earth. Thus, God will include a New Temple, a new priesthood, a new Law, etc., at this future time because He will be present in Israel and desires to teach that holiness is required to approach Him."
http://www.pre-trib.org/data/pdf/Ice-WhySacrificesinTheMi.pdf

The Christ, the Messiah is the ONLY Mediator there is between man and God. The article says that the sacrifices will be for purification. Once again our purification, righteousness, ONLY comes through the blood of the Redeemer, not through the blood of bulls and goats!!!

1Ti 2:4 who doth will all men to be saved, and to come to the full knowledge of the truth;
1Ti 2:5 for one is God, one also is mediator of God and of men, the man Christ Jesus,
1Ti 2:6 who did give himself a ransom for all--the testimony in its own times--
1Ti 2:7 in regard to which I was set a preacher and apostle--truth I say in Christ, I do not lie--a teacher of nations, in faith and truth.

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of the coming good things--not the very image of the matters, every year, by the same sacrifices that they offer continually, is never able to make perfect those coming near,
Heb 10:2 since, would they not have ceased to be offered, because of those serving having no more conscience of sins, having once been purified?

 

[BABerean2]

I'm sure your friends will love you if they read how you patronize their beliefs. It sure sounds like you love me.

You are the only one I've ever heard say that Dispensationalists teach an end of grace and a return to the Sinai covenant for the salvation of the Jews of the Tribulation. I challenge you to find that anywhere in a doctrinal statement, or ask your friends if that's what they believe. I think you just misunderstand and misrepresent their beliefs.

My grandpa said if gap theory was good enough for Scofield, it was good enough for him. At 14, I and my 12 year old brother explained how that theory is debunked because it doesn't fit with Exodus 20:11 (and why). But he didn't admit learning anything. I believe Scofield has influenced many by legitimizing a non-literal interpretation of Genesis and teaching pre-Tribulation rapture. But God will judge his fruit, not me.

I was a deacon in a conservative Bible Church with people my wife and I loved and still do. Some of the people in our present Bible study still attend that church body. Like you I first had problems with the pretrib rapture doctrine, which was written in the constitution of the church. When we were asked for input on revising the church's constitution, I submitted my concerns over that issue. The leadership listened, and told me I was free to hold to my beliefs, but no change was made in the constitution. Sometime later, we gained a member who was a former pastor and a graduate of Dallas Theological. He talked the pastors into teaching Dispensational Theology during Sunday School. One of the classes used the book "Things to Come" by Dr. Dwight Pentecost, who had been a professor at Dallas Theological. The more of the book I read, the more it concerned me. He clearly stated the original doctrine taught by Darby and Scofield that after the pretrib removal of the Church God would go back to dealing with Israel under the Old Covenant, during Daniel's 70th week.

If you do not believe me, get a used copy at amazon.com and read it for yourself.

However, you are correct that this part of the doctrine is not commonly taught in modern evangelical churches.

The thing that bothers me the most about the doctrine is the claim that modern Jews will come to salvation outside of the Church. Paul warned against this teaching in Galatians 1:6-9.
.

 

[BABerean2]

It just states Christ shall reign forever. I'm with you on the rapture being at/after the 7th trump. However, it's hard to deny all the scriptures that point to a literal 1000 year reign on earth. This is hardly an argument against pre millenialism.

You skipped over the timing of the judgment of the dead at Revelation 11:18.

Compare it to 2nd Timothy 4:1 and John 5:27-30.

Also, look at the Sheep and Goat judgment in Matthew chapter 25, which occurs at the Second Coming as well as the harvest of the Wheat and Tares in Matthew chapter 13.

Do you believe the Son of God, who defeated sin and death at the Cross is going to rule over a world where sin and death remain for 1,000 years?

Will Christ be officiating at the funeral services during this 1,000 year earthly reign, where sin and death continue?
.

 

[Fusion77]

You skipped over the timing of the judgment of the dead at Revelation 11:18.

Compare it to 2nd Timothy 4:1 and John 5:27-30.

Also, look at the Sheep and Goat judgment in Matthew chapter 25, which occurs at the Second Coming as well as the harvest of the Wheat and Tares in Matthew chapter 13.

Do you believe the Son of God, who defeated sin and death at the Cross is going to rule over a world where sin and death remain for 1,000 years?

Will Christ be officiating at the funeral services during this 1,000 year earthly reign, where sin and death continue?
.

You skipped over the timing of the judgment of the dead at Revelation 11:18.

Compare it to 2nd Timothy 4:1 and John 5:27-30.

Also, look at the Sheep and Goat judgment in Matthew chapter 25, which occurs at the Second Coming as well as the harvest of the Wheat and Tares in Matthew chapter 13.

Do you believe the Son of God, who defeated sin and death at the Cross is going to rule over a world where sin and death remain for 1,000 years?

Will Christ be officiating at the funeral services during this 1,000 year earthly reign, where sin and death continue?
.

Zechariah 14:9

9And the LORD will be king over all the earth; in that day the LORD will be the onlyone, and His name the only one.

I don't think He will be officiating funerals. However I do know in that day He will be King over all the earth.


Look, the scriptures that you have given can be explained easier than the many others which clearly point to a 1000 year literal reign on earth.

John 5:27-29

27and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man. 28“Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, (An hour both for the saved and unsaved)in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, (this hour is 1000 years prior)those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment. (this hour is a 1000 years later)

You have to look at the bible as a whole. It points to 1000 year literal reign. It's the same with Revelation 11:18 the 24 elders are giving a description of things that have been in the past, present.

Revelation 11:18

18“And the nations were enraged, and Your wrath came, and the time came for the dead to be judged, and the time to reward Your bond-servants the prophets and the saints and those who fear Your name, the small and the great, and to destroy those who destroy the earth.”

Notice it doesn't say the dead were judged. It simply states the time came. I'm not saying that's the answer. The 24 elders could also be reverting from past, present and future. The bottom line is, their are many other scriptures that do point to 1000 year literal reign.

 

[Luke17:37]

I was a deacon in a conservative Bible Church with people my wife and I loved and still do. Some of the people in our present Bible study still attend that church body. Like you I first had problems with the pretrib rapture doctrine, which was written in the constitution of the church. When we were asked for input on revising the church's constitution, I submitted my concerns over that issue. The leadership listened, and told me I was free to hold to my beliefs, but no change was made in the constitution. Sometime later, we gained a member who was a former pastor and a graduate of Dallas Theological. He talked the pastors into teaching Dispensational Theology during Sunday School. One of the classes used the book "Things to Come" by Dr. Dwight Pentecost, who had been a professor at Dallas Theological. The more of the book I read, the more it concerned me. He clearly stated the original doctrine taught by Darby and Scofield that after the pretrib removal of the Church God would go back to dealing with Israel under the Old Covenant, during Daniel's 70th week.

If you do not believe me, get a used copy at amazon.com and read it for yourself.

However, you are correct that this part of the doctrine is not commonly taught in modern evangelical churches.

The thing that bothers me the most about the doctrine is the claim that modern Jews will come to salvation outside of the Church. Paul warned against this teaching in Galatians 1:6-9.
.

A return to the Sinai covenant is certainly heresy, because that's a false gospel for the Jews and any so-called post-rapture Christians. ...Just as the Pope taught Catholics recently that they don't need to witness to Jews, implying that they are going to heaven as they are. That was the lie my pastor was told by his rabbi when he was 16 years old, "Hell is a Gentile problem." Fortunately he (my pastor) came to a knowledge of the truth when he was 22.

God knows if Darby and Scofield taught this false gospel. Both men have passed away so we can't talk to them. I have a Scofield study Bible since I was a child but I rarely look at the footnotes, honestly. Sometimes I notice how they lie about the clear meaning of the text (I've noticed this in Genesis 1 and eschatology, for example, in 2 Thessalonians). My parents would have bought another kind of study Bible if they had realized his doctrinal errors in Genesis (or now, about end times).

I recognize the name of that book. Maybe I'll get myself a copy or see if I can get my hands on one. The thing is, one can only be sure after reading it of what Dr. Dwight Pentacost taught, unless there is something else of Darby or Scofield's documenting their teaching of this heresy. Sometimes people misunderstand other people's doctrines.

From my understanding,
most people who call themselves dispensationalists only hold to the lie of pre-tribulation rapture.

 

[Goodbook]

I have heard from a christadelphian who was obssessed with end times prophecies, that he believed in the 1000 year reign that nobody would die, we would be living eternal lives its just those not born again would die out.

Maybe it takes 1000 years for everything to be put right, i dont know. This is just what he thought when i asked him.
Maybe the 1000 years is Jesus reign as King before new heaven and earth is complete? Im not exactly sure why but revelation clearly repeats this 1000 year reign as something thats important in the seperating from the righteous from the wicked...it doesnt all happen at once. Also maybe it takes time for things to be set right.

Not that I am christadelphian or anything. But this guy seemed to think that we would be lving long lives like how adam and eve orginally lived 900 years.Also when I asked dispensationalists about the sacrfices and whether they thought Jesus sacrifice wasnt sufficient, they couldnt answer. It just seemed to me they believed the Jewish ppl would rule over the gentiles, and everything would go back to them being in charge. They separated all the ages into 'church age' and then claimed God wasnt finished with the jews. They would set it all up and then God would destroy it in armageddon or something crazy like that. I thought that cant be right..and rather than argue I just left off going to that church cos I just found their doctine way too weird.

Also they seemed to believe in the left behind series books more than the bible.

 

[Luke17:37]

I have heard from a christadelphian who was obssessed with end times prophecies, that he believed in the 1000 year reign that nobody would die, we would be living eternal lives its just those not born again would die out.

Maybe it takes 1000 years for everything to be put right, i dont know. This is just what he thought when i asked him.
Maybe the 1000 years is Jesus reign as King before new heaven and earth is complete? Im not exactly sure why but revelation clearly repeats this 1000 year reign as something thats important in the seperating from the righteous from the wicked...it doesnt all happen at once. Also maybe it takes time for things to be set right.

Not that I am christadelphian or anything. But this guy seemed to think that we would be lving long lives like how adam and eve orginally lived 900 years.Also when I asked dispensationalists about the sacrfices and whether they thought Jesus sacrifice wasnt sufficient, they couldnt answer. It just seemed to me they believed the Jewish ppl would rule over the gentiles, and everything would go back to them being in charge. They separated all the ages into 'church age' and then claimed God wasnt finished with the jews. They would set it all up and then God would destroy it in armageddon or something crazy like that. I thought that cant be right..and rather than argue I just left off going to that church cos I just found their doctine way too weird.

Also they seemed to believe in the left behind series books more than the bible.

You can read about the 1,000 year reign of Jesus here to start: Revelation 20, Psalms 2, Psalms 72, Isaiah 2, Isaiah 11, Isaiah 65, Ezekiel 47, Zechariah 14 (last several verses). Notice from the Isaiah passages that the animals resume their original diets (vegetarian) and dispositions (friendly with humans); people life long lives again (like pre-flood), although dying at a 100 is considered a curse; there is no more pain in childbirth; babies are born (not like the post-resurrection Jesus taught about, so He was talking about the rules of new heaven and new earth off of this earth); there are still the same bodies of water, but God heals them (the Dead Sea will teem with fish and En Gedi, a place along the Dead Sea, will be fruitful.) (See pictures of Dead Sea, En Gedi today)

P.S. Since the resurrection of the dead in Christ is first, those Christians won't die since they have their glorified bodies. Some people will actually survive the Tribulation and Return of Christ (implied besides a few Christians, see Zechariah 14)... these can still have children and can still die, apparently.

 

[BABerean2]

A return to the Sinai covenant is certainly heresy, because that's a false gospel for the Jews and any so-called post-rapture Christians. ...Just as the Pope taught Catholics recently that they don't need to witness to Jews, implying that they are going to heaven as they are. That was the lie my pastor was told by his rabbi when he was 16 years old, "Hell is a Gentile problem." Fortunately he (my pastor) came to a knowledge of the truth when he was 22.

God knows if Darby and Scofield taught this false gospel. Both men have passed away so we can't talk to them. I have a Scofield study Bible since I was a child but I rarely look at the footnotes, honestly. Sometimes I notice how they lie about the clear meaning of the text (I've noticed this in Genesis 1 and eschatology, for example, in 2 Thessalonians). My parents would have bought another kind of study Bible if they had realized his doctrinal errors in Genesis (or now, about end times).

I recognize the name of that book. Maybe I'll get myself a copy or see if I can get my hands on one. The thing is, one can only be sure after reading it of what Dr. Dwight Pentacost taught, unless there is something else of Darby or Scofield's documenting their teaching of this heresy. Sometimes people misunderstand other people's doctrines.

From my understanding,
most people who call themselves dispensationalists only hold to the lie of pre-tribulation rapture.

Dallas Theological Seminary was established in 1924, and taught the new doctrine to future pastors. Lewis Sperry Chafer the first president of Dallas Theological had the following to say about the difference between Israel and the Church.


“The dispensationalist believes that throughout the ages God is pursuing two distinct purposes: one related to the earth with earthly people and earthly objectives involved which is Judaism; while the other is related to heaven with heavenly people and heavenly objectives involved, which is Christianity.”

Lewis Sperry Chafer, Dispensationalism (Dallas, Seminary Press, 1936), p. 107.

He is claiming above there are two separate Kingdoms, one for the Jews and another for the Church.
However, the New Testament says we are grafted together with the believing Israelites and we share the same inheritance. Galatians 3:16, 29


Chafer states that, ‘Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne,’ that is, on earth and distinct from the church who will be in heaven.”

Lewis Sperry Chafer. Systematic Theology. 1975. Vol. IV. pp. 315-323.


Here he is saying the same thing and relating it to the land promise.
He does not say anything about the New Heavens and the New Earth.



John Walvoord, another prominent voice of Dallas Theological stated…

"...it is an article of normative dispensational belief that the boundaries of the land promised to Abraham and his descendants from the Nile to the Euphrates will be literally instituted and that Jesus Christ will return to a literal and theocratic Jewish kingdom centred on a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. In such a scheme the Church on earth is relegated to the status of a parenthesis.”

John F. Walvoord, The Rapture Question.1979, p. 25

Walvoord is claiming that the Church is a "parenthesis" in God's plan of dealing with Israel.
He is placing the focus on Israel, instead of the Church of Jesus Christ.
Paul stated in Romans 11 that salvation comes by being grafted into the Olive Tree, which is a symbol of the Church.

At one time I did not understand the reason the Dispensationalists needed a pretrib rapture.
The reason was so that God could give the modern Jews a do-over during a future 70th week of Daniel.
They claim that people will come to faith in Christ during this time, but will not be a part of the Church.

They have clearly violated Paul's warning in Galatians 1:6-9.

If more evangelical Christians truly understood the reason for the pretrib rapture of modern Dispensational Theology, they would reject the doctrine and they would see Dispensational Theology for what it really is...
.

 

[Psalm3704]

There's nothing wrong with a peace offering to the Lord as one way of worshipping Him. Zechariah 14 indicates that the nations will send representatives to go up to Jerusalem to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles. That passage doesn't actually say how they will celebrate Feast of Tabernacles--just that they come to Jerusalem for it. I am sure they will celebrate it however Jesus wants.

I think this Ezekiel 45:18 - 46:24 might be what you're looking for. It should help.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel 45:18-46:24&version=GNT;NKJV











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