Bill Nye the Science Guy and Creationism

[tiglathpileser]

Eh?

Firstly you'll notice I'm not an atheist.

Secondly, what is the truth then? My argument didn't blame God, I was pointing out that your explanation was completely nonsensical. Claiming that God alone was responsible for the polio vaccine means that for thousands of years he just sat on his hands letting millions suffer. It doesn't make sense if you then claim God is all powerful and all loving. If my child was sick I wouldn't withhold treatment saying 'sorry, you were born in the wrong century'.

I never said you were an atheist. I was making a comment about atheists. To answer your second point adequately would require a theological treatise that is outside of the scope of this thread.

 

[Lulav]

CLOSED. FOR REVIEW

 

[Hammster]

MOD HAT

The thread is reopened after review.

 

[DogmaHunter]

So you say but I am pleased to say that 2.3 billion do not agree with you.

Reality and truth is not determined by popular vote.

100% of people could believe the earth is flat, but it would still be spherical.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Point one. "Most christians accept..." And when did you survey the 2.3 billion christians on the earth to make such a spurious claim?" In all probability, at least 50% of the country's christians live in have never heard of evolution so claiming "most christians" is far fetched and unviable.[//quote]

If you are claiming that half of the Christians are illiterate then you can't claim that those other 50% are creationists. They would not enter into the discussion at all. But if you want to limit the discussion to educated people then I will gladly say that clearly at least half of educated Christians accept the theory of evolution. Uneducated people have all sorts of strange beliefs and that is really not their fault.

Point two. Mathematician Dr. Roger Penrose conducted a study of the probability of a
universe capable of sustaining life occurring by chance and found the odds to be 1 in 10 to the power of 10 to the power of 123. According to the probability theory, odds of 1 in 10 to the power of 50 represents zero probability. Dr. Penrose's calculation puts the odd of life emerging as Darwin described it at more than a trillion, trillion, trillion time less likely than zero.

Wrong, that is not what he did. And you do not understand how probability works. If you link his claim from a valid source I will show your error to you. If you can't then I have no need to refute your claim. Claims presented without evidence can be refuted without evidence.

Point three. The International Conference for Atheists.

You have probably been inaccurate of your impression of what occurred there. So far you have not been the most astute of observers when it comes to atheists here.

 

[TLK Valentine]

So you say but I am pleased to say that 2.3 billion do not agree with you.

Popular beliefs are not always correct ones.

 

[lasthero]

Point one. "Most christians accept..." And when did you survey the 2.3 billion christians on the earth to make such a spurious claim?" In all probability, at least 50% of the country's christians live in have never heard of evolution so claiming "most christians" is far fetched and unviable.

50%?

Really?

You seriously believe that 50% of the Christians in America haven't even heard of evolution?

Okay, since I know you won't do it, let's look at some actual statistics, not ones you just made up on the spot.

As you can see, the actual data shows that most people accept evolution in the US. And when we break it down even further...

We can play the 'majority determines who's right game' if you want, but the truth is that creationists don't actually have any real majority.

 

[lasthero]

According to the probability theory, odds of 1 in 10 to the power of 50 represents zero probability.

There is no such theory. You either made this up or got it from someone who made it up.

 

[TLK Valentine]

There is no such theory. You either made this up or got it from someone who made it up.

Kind of makes you wonder how well creationism would do without the lies...

 

[bhsmte]

What reality? There is very little reality attached to atheism as they deny the obvious.

What obvious things does your average atheist deny, please demonstrate that for us.

 

[bhsmte]

50%?

Really?

You seriously believe that 50% of the Christians in America haven't even heard of evolution?

Okay, since I know you won't do it, let's look at some actual statistics, not ones you just made up on the spot.

As you can see, the actual data shows that most people accept evolution in the US. And when we break it down even further...

We can play the 'majority determines who's right game' if you want, but the truth is that creationists don't actually have any real majority.

Uh oh, those pesky old facts-

 

[bhsmte]

What it means is that your blindness is total so you won't see it even if I explain it. A bit like me taking a blind person out to bluebell wood and saying to him "I hope you can see the beauty that I am showing you."

Hilarious!

You make claim after claim, with zero support of any of them and then expect people to just believe you.

Highly entertaining stuff!

 

[Butterfly99]

The polio vaccine was thanks to God and God alone.

Idk if you're being for real here or what but there's nothing wrong with giving credit when it's due. Jonas Salk def. deserves a ton of credit for the vaccine. I personally think God was guiding him so they both get props for that.

 

[Butterfly99]

And science has advanced knowledge and has held us back at times when such scientists who are atheists claim God does not exist. Only man's superiority and brains are able to work things out.

So says you as you're writing on a computer scientists created & using the internet scientists created & prolly in a house w AC, running water & a refrigerator that are thx to science. You're 75 & you're still alive. That is in huge part cause of advances in science. Most rational Christians are perfectly fine w giving scientists & God their due. But you do you.

 

[Hoghead1]

quite understand, Tiglath, that many Christians, such as myself, have no trouble reconciling God with evolution. In fact, I have argued that evolution would not be possible without God. To better educate yourself here, I would suggest you do some readings in the works of Teilhard de Chardin, who understands evolution as the path to the Kingdom of God or the Omega point.

 

[Butterfly99]

quite understand, Tiglath, that many Christians, such as myself, have no trouble reconciling God with evolution. In fact, I have argued that evolution would not be possible without God. To better educate yourself here, I would suggest you do some readings in the works of Teilhard de Chardin, who understands evolution as the path to the Kingdom of God or the Omega point.

It's only on the internet that I've ever heard of Christians not accepting evolution. I know thats true for friends I've made on Christian Forums cause they've also said that b4 they came here they never heard of Christians having this problem.But like 1 friend pointed out most of the ppl who kick up a stink about evolution are really old so maybe they just didn't get a good education when they were young. I think maybe they're also just set in their ways & not willing to learn. But yeah my mom went to Duke for divinity school & they def. have no problem with evolution. Methodists don't have a prob. w it.Tiglath's been banned so maybe the thread can be productive now.That would be nice.

 

[AV1611VET]

I would suggest you do some readings in the works of Teilhard de Chardin, who understands evolution as the path to the Kingdom of God or the Omega point.

I always thought the path to the Kingdom of God was through Jesus Christ.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

 

[HitchSlap]

I always thought the path to the Kingdom of God was through Jesus Christ.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Nah, it's through the eye of a needle, on a camel, on a narrow road, with a lot of thistles.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Everyone is what they are by choice because we all have a free will. I realise that there are many who are forced into prostitution and sex slavery especially in countries in the Middle East and Africa but in Western Civilisation that is not the norm. I am a christian because I chose to believe the Word of God. You are an atheist because you chose to believe what they say. If that is not the case then one can correctly claim that they forced you to become an atheist.

Then willfully choose to believe that the color of the sky is a polka dot pattern of gold and silver. Belief is not fully a conscious choice; much of what we can believe depends upon our experiences, and developed tendencies towards being open to it or not. As it is impossible for one to control every experience that they have, it is likewise impossible for an individual to ensure that they will be a believer. Since I grew up in a household where religion was not priority, I was never indoctrinated, so the greatest opportunity for me to become a believer was lost. Figuring out on my own that the tooth fairy, Santa Claus, etc. were not real, despite my mother constantly trying to tell me otherwise, did not help. I wasn't brought up as an atheist, but in a way, that more effectively lead me to being one in that I ended up concluding on my own that, with no evidence of deities in sight, they were probably as real as the Easter Bunny.

However, the potential implications of this would not hit home until the deaths of both my great grandmother and my grandmother on my father's side within the same month when I was 13. The thought that such great people were no more was unacceptable, but my thoughts went there nevertheless. In desperation, I sought out anything, literally anything, that could count as evidence for an afterlife. I was such an emotional wreak, I even considered the show Ghost Hunters to be potential evidence for an afterlife, and it actually comforted me for a little bit (I eventually realized how idiotic that was, and the comfort left within a year and a half).

I've been battling depression ever since, as well as my own mind. There was a brief period in which I was absolutely certain that no deities could possibly exist, but a college philosophy class prevented me from going full on "angry young person antitheist", and helped me open up more to other possibilities, and also experience less stress at generally being wrong and the thought of being wrong in all regards, not just religious ones. However, I am still left with a difficult standard of evidence. Nothing that any theist has presented to me as evidence has hit me as convincing. Even knowing why I don't buy it doesn't give me control over how I interpret the evidence, and the closest I could come to that would be lying to myself and others, and knowing constantly that I have resorted to a measure that makes me both dishonest, and any comfort nonexistent.

Also, on the matter of free will, humans have limits on how much control over our thoughts and bodies that we have. It doesn't matter how much I try to will it, I can't ensure that I won't have nightmares from time to time, nor can I flap my arms and soar through the sky. I am not choosing to be an atheist, because the implications of it put me in so much pain, that I consider killing myself on a weekly basis just so I don't live in constant fear of my inevitable death anymore. Alas, thus far I am too terrified of the potential complete end of my existence to go through with it, but what is a life constantly bogged down with the despair of a doom slowly creeping closer every day? I would rather go to hell than have my consciousness cease to exist, which makes threats that people like me are going to go there really ineffective, seeing as not only do I not think that hell exists, but the oblivion that I do think awaits me is far more terrifying.

if my memory serves me correctly but it may not at my age, you rubbished christians as being dumb. I used these people which I have some knowledge of to point out that they are far from dumb. I could have picked up a load of names off the internet but chose not to. These are men that I either knew personally or had studied so I was confident about my choices. You will note that I don't make supercilious claims like atheists do that "most christians..." which is patently unprovable. There is no doubt that when you read such claims from atheists, we are definitely being exposed to very bad arguments. it doesn't worry me too much because I put down to the fact that they have no evidence for their position so they have to use the gift of exaggeration and generalisation and hope no one notices.

I have never suggested Christians are dumb; just that I have seen bad arguments on this site. It doesn't make those people dumb necessarily to use those arguments either; they could be misinformed, or just bad at debates. I did say the one guy you named that is a Trump supporter is dumb, but not because he is a Christian, but because he is supporting Trump over more viable Republican candidates. I prefer that the turds that head governments at least have a significant background in politics, especially in foreign interactions. But, that's my bias doing the talking; it wins this round, I am not taking it back, I legitimately view supporting Trump as so stupid, that I can't view any Trump supporter as intelligent. It isn't fair, and it is fallacy, but it would be dishonest for me to say I ever give Trump supporters the benefit of the doubt.

No, as I said I don't record everything in case I am asked by atheists for a link. My life is not lived for the benefit of atheists. It is lived for the glory of God. That means he is the only one that I want to please. What others think is irrelevant to me that is why when atheists try and put the guilt trip on me it falls on deaf ears.

I told you that it is fine that you do not have it; things like that just make more of an impact when you get to see it for yourself rather than hear about it second hand, wouldn't you agree? I'm not going to give you any sass for it; it's not like I keep track of every source I bring up.

 

[PsychoSarah]

No, you won't surprise me. I have been dialoguing with atheist for about 10 years now and to date, not one of them have understood the spiritual.

That sounds defeatist, and unnecessary. Why bring up having access to truth if you aren't going to say what it is?