Bill Nye the Science Guy and Creationism

[TLK Valentine]

That is right Joshua. The people who do believe that run into hundreds of millions. Those that don't run into hundreds of thousands. Funny how atheists conveniently ignore facts like that.

What does it matter?

 

[TLK Valentine]

That is a feather in their cap to be sure but in all things we should give Honor and Glory to God. He is the one that is doing a work of restoration in this world. That is why Jesus died in our place at Calvary so that we can have life.

Before the scientists got involved, you had life with Polio... just sayin'

 

[tiglathpileser]

What does it matter?

It doesn't matter at all if you are not interested in the truth.

 

[tiglathpileser]

hard work and effort never entered into it?

Only for atheists who have to justify everything by their efforts.

 

[tiglathpileser]

And how soon they forgot...

Did they? Not according ot the history books I am reading. I guess it is another case of atheists spinning themselves out of a hole.

 

[tiglathpileser]

Actually, they said it after they worked on finding it... you know work, correct? It's what you do when you get tired of waiting for everything to come floating down like manna form heaven...and thankfully, there were enough men (and women, mustn't forget the women) who stopped looking for God to answer all their questions for them, and got down to the answers themselves. That, boys and girls, is why we no longer have Polio. And yet, all the prayer and repentance in the world did absolutely nothing to stop Polio...

About as supercillious and smug as you can get.

 

[tiglathpileser]

Ah, proving a negative, a true sign of one who can not support their own positive claim. Can you prove I was not abducted by aliens last night and safely returned to my home?

Another typical response by atheists when they have to answer an intelligent question or comment. Heard it all before and it is so boring and outdated it is silly in the extreme.

 

[tiglathpileser]

I think most folks already know that, & it doesn't change the truth of what I said at all. Religion has advanced knowledge but it's also held it back at times.

And science has advanced knowledge and has held us back at times when such scientists who are atheists claim God does not exist. Only man's superiority and brains are able to work things out.

 

[tiglathpileser]

Yes, and cause of you know, the POLIO VACCINE which was thx to science. Yes. What I was asking was why they've decreased so dramatically. I gave the correct answer above.

The polio vaccine was thanks to God and God alone.

 

[PsychoSarah]

My first son is an electronic engineer and my second son is studying computer engineering with a full scholarship. Sense you are a electrical engineer then do you claim to be an expert in evolutionism? Just when did evolutionary science because a requirement to get your degree in electrical engineering?

Since when are you an expert in it? Also, a person doesn't need to have evolutionary biology as their profession to be educated in the matter. In fact, in most of these debates, a high school level of competence in the subject is enough to get by, and those with interest in it will educate themselves further, even if it isn't especially related to their profession.

I consider you reasonably well-versed in matters of the bible, but should I consider your input completely worthless unless you can present a theology degree?

 

[PsychoSarah]

The polio vaccine was thanks to God and God alone.

The polio vaccine was developed by a great guy called Jonas Salk. He chose not to patent the vaccine, allowing it to be cheaply made by anyone, and in doing so, willfully giving up the equivalent of 7 billion US dollars for the sake of humanity. Without a patent to hike up prices, the vaccine was cheap enough that everyone in the US could afford it.

But no, you would claim all his work, all his sacrifice, and all his time spent on finding treatments for diseases to be god's doing. Sorry, but unless you think free will doesn't exist, god cannot make people do good or bad directly. Salk chose not to patent the polio vaccine, not god.

But hey, even if god made the vaccine, I ask you this: who made the disease?

 

[tiglathpileser]

I am not here pushing atheism. It's actually a stretch to even say I am promoting evolution. I am here mostly to improve my social skills, and what better challenge is there for an angry, impatient person than to try to politely debate people that are strongly opposed to the position one takes in the debate? I am also immensely interested in any evidence people may have for the existence of deities, although I have been left pretty disappointed thus far.

I try to listen to what people have to say as well, but it really strains me to deal with people like you that decide it is easier to just put atheists down as idiots and lesser beings than believers. You aren't helping anyone by saying it, and even though you believe that to be the case, you can practice tact by not expressing it.

Also, I don't claim that deities don't exist. I claim that I haven't seen sufficient evidence to convince me that they do. I could very well be wrong, and I hope that I am.

Well, you could improve your social skills by not crying over spilt milk and stop denying the obvious. In case you hadn't noticed you are not the only atheist here. In fact where there is a christian forum there is a flood of atheist all trying to put us right and convince us that they are right and we are wrong. What you might call pushing atheism.

One of them told us that he invaded christian forums to help us understand the world better. Strewth! How can a person who believes in nothing help us who believe in the almighty creator God and know him personally? Such arrogance to say the least.

As for wanting evidence for deities, so far almost without exception all atheists want is an argument. Any evidence that is presented is scoffed at and rebuffed as not "scientific" when in fact not a scrap of science will enable you to access God as without faith it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God. You have been told this but you still insist that you need scientific evidence. It just ain't going to happen because you won't connect with God on your terms. It will be on his terms and that is why most atheists are going to lose out because they only have faith in themselves.

Those atheists that do understand science often or not become christians like Anthony Flew, Malcolm Muggeridge, Derek Prince, C.S.Lewis, Peter Hitchens all of whom had brilliant minds.

 

[tiglathpileser]

But hey, even if god made the vaccine, I ask you this: who made the disease?

So simple I am surprised you need to ask the question. Man did though his rebellion against God. All disease is the result of this and all treatment of disease is the through the kindness of God in allowing man to discover such cures and antibiotics.

 

[tiglathpileser]

And yet, all the prayer and repentance in the world did absolutely nothing to stop Polio...

How do you know? Another one of those utterly spurious generalisations by atheists to sound intelligent and worthy of applaud...I don't think.

 

[tiglathpileser]

Where'd you get that stat from?

Look for yourself. They are published every year from this and that survey company. It doesn't need a university brain to read them.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Well, you could improve your social skills by not crying over spilt milk and stop denying the obvious. In case you hadn't noticed you are not the only atheist here. In fact where there is a christian forum there is a flood of atheist all trying to put us right and convince us that they are right and we are wrong. What you might call pushing atheism.

I do not recall telling you off for being wrong scientifically, but if I feel that something you say seems off, I will mention it. If I am mistaken, it should be easy to explain further and clarify enough that my issues will be satisfied. If there is a weakness in your arguments, wouldn't you want someone to mention them, so that you may fix them? And if they are not errors, the fact that they can be mistaken for such should still concern you.

I also do not recall crying over anything. Asking you to choose your words carefully as to not instantly antagonize the people you are debating with is advice that benefits you more than it does me. I just want to promote civil discussions on here; this subforum really needs more civility and openness from both sides.

One of them told us that he invaded christian forums to help us understand the world better. Strewth! How can a person who believes in nothing help us who believe in the almighty creator God and know him personally? Such arrogance to say the least.

I personally don't make it my goal to change minds on here. Not only is it not my place to do it, but it's a pretty fruitless task for most of those that try. I might challenge ideas people have about atheists such as myself; after all, we are regular people, just like you. The only difference between us is a matter of faith. Some Christians come on here with a similar mindset of "teaching dem atheists the error of their ways", and they don't get much success either. Overall, that mindset just leaves people frustrated on both sides.

As for wanting evidence for deities, so far almost without exception all atheists want is an argument. Any evidence that is presented is scoffed at and rebuffed as not "scientific" when in fact not a scrap of science will enable you to access God as without faith it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God. You have been told this but you still insist that you need scientific evidence. It just ain't going to happen because you won't connect with God on your terms. It will be on his terms and that is why most atheists are going to lose out because they only have faith in themselves.

I have very little faith in myself; I certainly don't worship myself, nor do I view myself as particularly exceptional. Also, that take on it seems pretty defeatist to me. I will continue to seek faith anyways; no point in giving up, it isn't hurting me or anyone else.

Those atheists that do understand science often or not become christians like Anthony Flew, Malcolm Muggeridge, Derek Prince, C.S.Lewis, Peter Hitchens all of whom had brilliant minds.

C.S.Lewis was an author, not a scientist. I don't immediately recognize the other names. I also do not think he was ever an atheist. Some atheists do convert to a religion, but for those in the scientific fields, challenges to faith are an occupational hazard. It is far more common for those people to lose faith over time than for them to gain it.

Antony Flew is a philosopher, not a scientist. Also, he was a Deist, not a Christian in the traditional sense. His outlook faith-wise was really weird.

Malcolm Muggeridge was anything but a scientist; he was a journalist, a soldier, and a spy. He did have a degree in natural sciences, but it doesn't appear he did much with it. He also was a teacher of English literature.

Derek Prince was a preacher, not a scientist. He was also never an atheist.

Peter Hitchens is a journalist. He also thinks climate change is a cult, and supports Donald Trump. Do you still want to call this man brilliant? Even stranger, he used to be a Socialist.

In any case, just because some smart people are Christians doesn't make Christianity correct. There have been a ton of brilliant Muslims and Hindus as well. This argument is not valid.

 

[PsychoSarah]

So simple I am surprised you need to ask the question. Man did though his rebellion against God. All disease is the result of this and all treatment of disease is the through the kindness of God in allowing man to discover such cures and antibiotics.

God still had to make the diseases as a punishment. Also, not to let people find the cures would be a violation of free will, as would encouraging people to do it, if you want to justify god not revealing itself very blatantly to every person in the world. And I mean in person, in the flesh, doing godly things right in front of people's faces in ways that could never be explained otherwise.

Also, thank Jonas Salk for his contribution. Thank him! Acknowledge his effort for humanity! I am not asking you to worship him for it, just recognize that people do things too. Good things.

 

[tiglathpileser]

C.S.Lewis was an author, not a scientist. I don't immediately recognize the other names. I also do not think he was ever an atheist. Some atheists do convert to a religion, but for those in the scientific fields, challenges to faith are an occupational hazard. It is far more common for those people to lose faith over time than for them to gain it.

Antony Flew is a philosopher, not a scientist. Also, he was a Deist, not a Christian in the traditional sense. His outlook faith-wise was really weird.

Malcolm Muggeridge was anything but a scientist; he was a journalist, a soldier, and a spy. He did have a degree in natural sciences, but it doesn't appear he did much with it. He also was a teacher of English literature.

Derek Prince was a preacher, not a scientist. He was also never an atheist.

Peter Hitchens is a journalist. He also thinks climate change is a cult, and supports Donald Trump. Do you still want to call this man brilliant? Even stranger, he used to be a Socialist..

In your haste to correct me you ignored what I said and didn't say. I never said any of them were scientists. My words were "Those atheists that do understand science..." comprende? You can understand science without being a scientist.

I have read C. S. Lewis's story and he admits to being an atheist.

Antony Flew may be a deist but he certainly is not an atheist as he used to be.

Malcolm Muggeridge was a self confessed atheist who converted to christianity and joined the Catholic Church.

I know Derek personally and have his life story in which he says he was an atheist. In addition he was the youngest professor of Philosophy at Cambridge University.

Judging by his performance in a talk show where he was up against four atheists, Peter Hitchens responses were brilliant and silenced the four atheists. And you have branded him according to things that have no relevance to his being a christian or not. There are plenty of christians who support climate change and there are plenty who do not, there are christians who support Trump and there are christians who do not, so by your reckoning they are not brilliant because of where they fall on these things. So childish and so churlish as you seem to think that the only thing that matters is the world according to Sarah.

And judging by your response here, you need to do a bit more research before making pronouncements that have no validity in fact.

 

[tiglathpileser]

But hey, even if god made the vaccine, I ask you this: who made the disease?

Why do I bother? I have already told you where it came from.

 

[PsychoSarah]

In your haste to correct me you ignored what I said and didn't say. I never said any of them were scientists. My words were "Those atheists that do understand science..." comprende? You can understand science without being a scientist.

It wasn't in haste, but an error of ambiguity. I wasn't sure if you meant one way or another, so I guessed.

I have read C. S. Lewis's story and he admits to being an atheist.

Fair enough, upon checking, he was in fact an atheist at one point... one of the young, angry ones. So not only was he an atheist, but he was the ignorant religion bashing kind. However, in what regard should I consider him a person with an understanding of science?

Antony Flew may be a deist but he certainly is not an atheist as he used to be.

Still, just because he converted, doesn't mean that what he views as "evidence for deities" would be satisfactory to everyone, nor does it mean his standards are without flaws.

Malcolm Muggeridge was a self confessed atheist who converted to christianity and joined the Catholic Church.

But in what way should I consider him a person that understands science?

I know Derek personally and have his life story in which he says he was an atheist. In addition he was the youngest professor of Philosophy at Cambridge University.

Good for him. Still not a reason to be a Christian. Plenty of dumb people are Christian too. You keep committing a fallacy in promoting these converts, and thinking that it will encourage others to do it.

Judging by his performance in a talk show where he was up against four atheists, Peter Hitchens responses were brilliant and silenced the four atheists. And you have branded him according to things that have no relevance to his being a christian or not. There are plenty of christians who support climate change and there are plenty who do not, there are christians who support Trump and there are christians who do not, so by your reckoning they are not brilliant because of where they fall on these things. So childish and so churlish as you seem to think that the only thing that matters is the world according to Sarah.

I consider anyone that would support Donald Trump in politics to be a fool. Also, how about a link to that talk show. So help me, if Dawkins was a participant, I am going to flip a table out of rage due to his persistent incompetence in philosophical debates, and continued position in the minds of many as the stereotypical atheist. Just note for future reference, in case Dawkins ever comes up, that I have no respect for the man in terms of philosophy and debate prowess.

And judging by your response here, you need to do a bit more research before making pronouncements that have no validity in fact.

The fact that you think giving me a list of intelligent converts justifies conversion makes me face palm. Why are you even bothering to bring it up to me, a seeker? That is, I am already trying to find faith. The fact that others have is not going to do it for me.