Why do people believe in a Rapture?

[John S]

Lamad said:

For example, WHO is Matthew 24 really pointed at? WHO was Jesus addressing?


Matt 24: 3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

1.The disciples were in a private conversation with Jesus.

2. The relevant question to our discussion the disciples asked was “what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?”

3. While it can be said some of Matthew 24 was directed at the Jewish people ( Matt 24:2) much of it was more general in nature. (Matt. 24:5-8) ( Matt 24:11-14) (Matt24:23-27) ( Matt 24:29-31)

4. The argument that none of Matthew 24 was directed at the future church is not correct or supported by the text. (Matt 24:14 alone is proof of that) Jesus’s words in Mark 13:37 confirm this as well “37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.”

5. The disciples of Jesus asked the question they were the future beginnings of the church, the end of the age was what they inquired about.

6 Matt 24:29-31 is “the” coming of the Lord, there is no other in scripture for our future.

7. I counted 22 references in the NT to “His coming” “the coming of the Lord” or other like worded phrases, none of them imply more than one future coming, none are in the plural as in comings. That cannot be found in scripture. Even Paul always used the singular.

So Lamad, in answer to your question” WHO is Matthew 24 really pointed at? WHO was Jesus addressing?”

As related to the coming of the Lord and gathering of the elect, Jesus was pointing to and addressing believers in Christ, the future church.

...and His future church consists ONLY of 144,000 first born male virgins, who never lie - made up of 12,000 from every Tribe of Israel except for Dan, from which the antichrist will come.

 

[Postvieww]

...and His future church consists ONLY of 144,000 first born male virgins, who never lie - made up of 12,000 from every Tribe of Israel except for Dan, from which the antichrist will come.

Please explain that statement with scripture.

 

[BABerean2]

Bab I didn't see your post until after I put mine up.

Do not worry about hurting my feelings.
I appreciate you being here and speaking the truth, Brother.
.

 

[BABerean2]

...and His future church consists ONLY of 144,000 first born male virgins, who never lie - made up of 12,000 from every Tribe of Israel except for Dan, from which the antichrist will come.

I hope you guys will not be upset with me for the following...

However, I am going to ask the question anyway.

Are the 144,000 on earth or in heaven?

If they are in heaven, could they have been there for hundreds of years?

Rev 7:8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Rev 7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

Rev 7:11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,

Rev 7:12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.


Rev 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

Rev 14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

Rev 14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Rev 14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.



Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Jas 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
Jas 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

.

 

[John S]

Please explain that statement with scripture.

Revelation.
His future Church does NOT consist of every Tom, Dick, and Harry. It consists of males that HE will choose to be a part of His Church.
This Elect of 144,000 would even be deceived by the antichrist, if it were possible.
Jesus said that MANY will be deceived. He wasn't talking about Jews, Muslims, Hindus, or atheists. He was talking about HIS followers. All of those millions of people, who believe in the Pre-Trib Rapture, have ALREADY been deceived, and the antichrist hasn't even made his present felt yet. This false doctrine plays right into Satan's hands.
"So and so isn't the antichrist because God promised us that when the AC arrives on the scene, we would be removed from this world".

 

[John S]

I hope you guys will not be upset with me for the following...

However, I am going to ask the question anyway.

Are the 144,000 on earth or in heaven?

If they are in heaven, could they have been there for hundreds of years?

Rev 7:8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Rev 7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

Rev 7:11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,

Rev 7:12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.


Rev 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

Rev 14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

Rev 14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Rev 14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.



Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Jas 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
Jas 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

.

As I just told postvieww, the Elect would be deceived by the AC, if it were possible. That makes them humans alive on Earth when that time arrives. MAYBE they will be Raptured to Heaven but they would be the ONLY ones.

 

[iamlamad]

Thanks, BaB. All who love the Lord and keep His commandments are brothers and sisters in Christ.
I do not say I know it all by any means, I've made some embarrassing mistakes and am still learning from scripture.

It just becomes somewhat pointless to constantly refute those who are locked into false beliefs.
Take John 14:1-3; constantly touted as a rapture proof. Heaven is not mentioned there and where Jesus will be, is on the earth. Something as important as a removal of living people to heaven has to be better described than that. It isn't, so there isn't a rapture.
Paul's 'rapture' in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, is just what is described: a meeting with Jesus in the earths atmosphere, as He resurrects the souls of the martyrs and commences His Millennium reign, in Jerusalem.

I will continue to post the Bible truths, but I believe it won't be for much longer, as the end time events will soon overtake us all.

You are demonstrating your ignorance of scriptures: Revelation in particular. John and the Holy Spirit were VERY CLEAR that Jesus does not return to earth until AFTER the 70th week is finished. This is exactly what He said in Matthew 24 also, that He would not come until "immediately AFTER" the days of GT.

You imagine He will be on earth sooner that John says He will. So you have made yet another "mistake." You think you know, when in fact, you don't.

Finally, you demonstrate that you don't understand John 14 either. Heaven IS mentioned to anyone without preconceived glasses: where did Jesus GO? He went to be at the right hand of the Father. We have at least a dozen scriptures telling us that. So WHERE is the Father? OF COURSE HE IS IN HEAVEN. So heaven is where Jesus went and heaven is where He has prepared our mansions.

If you choose not to go with the rest of the bride to see your mansion, that is your business: just DON'T try to steal this experience from others.

 

[iamlamad]

We are constantly admonished that we will be left behind because we do not believe this deception called the “pretrib rapture” but my concern is, what will happen to the faith of those who believed a lie, when they begin to experience unspeakable horrors and persecution.

I am in total agreement with your statement “I believe it won't be for much longer, as the end time events will soon overtake us all”. Amen and God bless.

The very fact that you call it "deception" is a guarantee that you will be left behind. Of course, you COULD change your mind - but I doubt if you will. I really don't think you know what is in store for those left behind. Things are coming that God does not want us to be a part of. You can if you choose to be, But it is not God's best for you.

 

[iamlamad]

As I just told postvieww, the Elect would be deceived by the AC, if it were possible. That makes them humans alive on Earth when that time arrives. MAYBE they will be Raptured to Heaven but they would be the ONLY ones.

Maybe? Are they? The bible is so clear, I wonder why you question. Wait - I take that back. You have proven over and over that some of your theories are not according to scripture, so I should not wonder.

OF COURSE they are sealed on earth, and OF COURSE they are raptured to heaven at or after the midpoint of the week.

 

[iamlamad]

Revelation.
His future Church does NOT consist of every Tom, Dick, and Harry. It consists of males that HE will choose to be a part of His Church.
This Elect of 144,000 would even be deceived by the antichrist, if it were possible.
Jesus said that MANY will be deceived. He wasn't talking about Jews, Muslims, Hindus, or atheists. He was talking about HIS followers. All of those millions of people, who believe in the Pre-Trib Rapture, have ALREADY been deceived, and the antichrist hasn't even made his present felt yet. This false doctrine plays right into Satan's hands.
"So and so isn't the antichrist because God promised us that when the AC arrives on the scene, we would be removed from this world".

You are deceived in thinking those that believe the truth are deceived.

If you wish to be left behind, I am quite sure God will arrange it. Just keep in mind, you WILL BE overcome. They you will be forced to make very hard decisions.

The TRUTH is, the bride will never SEE the AC Beast because the bride must be "taken out of the way" before the AC Beast can be revealed. Oh, to be sure, all those left behind will see him. he will be AFTER them.

 

[John S]

You are deceived in thinking those that believe the truth are deceived.

If you wish to be left behind, I am quite sure God will arrange it. Just keep in mind, you WILL BE overcome. They you will be forced to make very hard decisions.

The TRUTH is, the bride will never SEE the AC Beast because the bride must be "taken out of the way" before the AC Beast can be revealed. Oh, to be sure, all those left behind will see him. he will be AFTER them.

It is so sad that you are still allowed to spout your Satanic, blasphemous, filth.
Again, YOU have decided that you are worthy of going to Heaven.
You have also decided that other people aren't worthy of going to Heaven.
Those are NOT your decisions to make. Those are God's decisions to make.

 

[BABerean2]

Finally, you demonstrate that you don't understand John 14 either. Heaven IS mentioned to anyone without preconceived glasses: where did Jesus GO? He went to be at the right hand of the Father. We have at least a dozen scriptures telling us that. So WHERE is the Father? OF COURSE HE IS IN HEAVEN. So heaven is where Jesus went and heaven is where He has prepared our mansions.

If you choose not to go with the rest of the bride to see your mansion, that is your business: just DON'T try to steal this experience from others.

Where are these mansions?


Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

These mansions are in the New Jerusalem, which is now in heaven.



Rev_3:12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.



Rev_21:2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.



Rev_21:10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

When does the New Jerusalem come down to where we are?

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

2Pe 3:11Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

The gathering of the Church found in 1st Thessalonians chapter 4 occurs on the day of the Lord.



1Th 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.



1Th 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.





Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
.

 

[iamlamad]

Lamad said:

For example, WHO is Matthew 24 really pointed at? WHO was Jesus addressing?


Matt 24: 3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

1.The disciples were in a private conversation with Jesus.

2. The relevant question to our discussion the disciples asked was “what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?”

The Jews were well verses on His coming to build His earthly Kingdom. That is the ONLY coming anyone knew of until Paul wrote of an earlier coming for a different purpose. They were living under the Old Covenant. So the "end" in question would be the end of THAT age, the Old Covenant. Since the 70th week will be the end of that covenant, the church is left out. Jesus spoke of the end of their covenant, answering exactly their question.

3. While it can be said some of Matthew 24 was directed at the Jewish people ( Matt 24:2) much of it was more general in nature. (Matt. 24:5-8) ( Matt 24:11-14) (Matt24:23-27) ( Matt 24:29-31)

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

In spite of what BA preaches, this gospel was NOT Paul's gospel. It was a gospel of the coming kingdom. In the days of Jesus, it was the coming SPIRITUAL Kingdom, while during the 70th week it will be the gospel of the coming PHYSICAL Kingdom. This Gospel is for the Jews, while Paul's gospel was for the Gentiles. Case in point? The first church conference ever: the Jerusalem Conference: what to do about Gentile Christians? So the truth is, this verse 14 is for the JEWS, not for the Gentile church. I will agree that verses 5-8 will have some meaning for the Church of today only because the birth pains are here and will get stronger before Jesus comes pretrib to take us out of here.

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

Notice that verse 23 begins with "then." WHEN is "then?" It will be during the day of the 70th week of DANIEL, so for the JEWS. The rest of the chapter will all be during and after the 70th week and not related at all to the church EXCEPT for those left behind.

4. The argument that none of Matthew 24 was directed at the future church is not correct or supported by the text. (Matt 24:14 alone is proof of that) Jesus’s words in Mark 13:37 confirm this as well “37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.”

WHO was Jesus talking to? Of course JEWISH MEN under the OLD COVENANT.

5. The disciples of Jesus asked the question they were the future beginnings of the church, the end of the age was what they inquired about.
But it was the end of THEIR AGE they were asking about. The end of THEIR age will have NOTHING to do with the church except for those left behind. The end of "their" age and end of the church are are two different endings over 7 years apart. The church age ends with the closed door at the 6th seal.

6 Matt 24:29-31 is “the” coming of the Lord, there is no other in scripture for our future.
Speak for yourself: there WILL BE another coming for the Bride of Christ. Deny it and you will miss it: simple as that.

7. I counted 22 references in the NT to “His coming” “the coming of the Lord” or other like worded phrases, none of them imply more than one future coming, none are in the plural as in comings. That cannot be found in scripture. Even Paul always used the singular.
This is an argument - just not a good one. All the Jews were well versed in His coming to build His earthly kingdom. But they knew nothing of a coming for the Gentile church before their time of Jacob's trouble would begin. As I have said numerous times, Paul's writings is the ONLY PLACE to find the rapture. It is no where else, save John SAW the raptured church in heaven after the fact.

So Lamad, in answer to your question” WHO is Matthew 24 really pointed at? WHO was Jesus addressing?”

As related to the coming of the Lord and gathering of the elect, Jesus was pointing to and addressing believers in Christ, the future church.

WRONG! He was addressing Jewish men about the end of the JEWISH age. They all became a part of the JEWISH church, but that church disappeared. It is the GENTILE church of today that was as it were an parentheses placed into the Jewish timeline.

 

[iamlamad]

It is so sad that you are still allowed to spout your Satanic, blasphemous, filth.
Again, YOU have decided that you are worthy of going to Heaven.
You have also decided that other people aren't worthy of going to Heaven.
Those are NOT your decisions to make. Those are God's decisions to make.

So 1 Thes. 4 & 5 and John 14 are blasphemous, satanic filth? God will wash your mouth out with soap! He expects you to BELIEVE them.

No, you are wrong. I have not decided at all. THEY have decided not to believe Jesus will come to take them to their mansions. It is and will be THEIR choice. I am only warning them of the consequences of their choices.

John, let me ask you a very straightforward question: are YOU watching for Jesus coming today and on a daily basis?

 

[Ronald]

Harpazo! We will be caught up at the sound of the last trumpet, which is number 7. If number 7 wasn't the last, then the last would be number 8. If the last was before the seven trumpets then it wouldn't be the last. How do pre-tribbers get around this. Well, they redefine it as some other unique trump of God apart from any series of trumpets ... you see. Well, I don't buy it.
Question: Reason with me. If we have to endure the first six trumpet events, which are in themselves pretty devastating to the planet, wouldn't you think many Christians (or those who actually claimed to be) would "fall away" when they saw this world catastrophe and they were still here. Especially the pre-tribbers would say, "Hey, what's going on, how come God hasn't taken us out? True Christians would figure that they were wrong and must endure for awhile longer. But what many who aren't born again, those who never really believed, you know, those spoken about in the Parable of the Sower, where the seed was planted in shallow soil and when troubles came, the plant withered and died because the roots weren't deep.
Wouldn't that be the considered the "falling away". The rapture happens like a thief in the night to those who are not on watch, to those who are in the dark. "But you, brothers, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief." 1 Thes. 5:4

It's interesting that in Islamic countries, like Libya, Syria, Iraq, and other countries where Islamic terrorism threatens Christianity, Judaism and whoever else gets in their way, a great tribulation is occurring. If you had to flee in fear of your life and saw your father's head chopped off or your 7 year old sister being raped, wouldn't you think that you were going through a Great Tribulation? This is the beginning, the stage is being set. Sweden's influx of refugees resulted in the highest number of rapes per capita in the world. That's what they got for the Christmas holidays. And Obama wants to invite them over here, feed them, give them a home, while they eventually turn against us. Judgment Day is coming. We may not have to wait for a WWIII (as some have already stated has begun), but God may intervene like a thief in the night. He may send a couple asteroids our way? Btw, Planet X is no longer a myth, NASA just admitted and confirmed a ninth planet a week or so ago. So that 80's scientist (Harrington?) was accurate. He died mysteriously and his claims were refuted and were made out to be heretical. Some say, it's on it's way towards earth (with a couple asteroids following it) and you can actually see it on the horizon, at sunset, with a high powered infrared telescope of course. ???When? March, April of this year -- Happy Easter!
I do hope the pre-tribbers are right and before this happens, rapture me up thank you very much. Unfortunately, I think we'll have to go through the first six trumpet events before we are taken out at the seventh trumpet. At least we won't experience the seven bowls of wrath poured out.
Oh, one more thing, might as well throw this in there too. The "woman clothed with the sun and the moon at her feet" in Rev. 12 is symbolically Israel and the child is Jesus. However, literally, it is also a sign in the heavens. Virgo is a constellation that will appear clothed in the sun with moon at her feet with 12 stars around her head on Sept. 23, 2017. This exact constellation happened when Jesus was born as well, which was figured to be Sept. 11, 3 B.C.E. FYI

 

[iamlamad]

Where are these mansions?


Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

These mansions are in the New Jerusalem, which is now in heaven.
Thank you! In this we agree. (Perhaps the ONLY thing we agree on!) Of course they are in heaven because that is where Jesus went to be.

Rev_3:12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.
Yes, it WILL come down after the New Heaven and NEW Earth are created. AS I have said over and over, you have a SERIOUS issue with time and timing. This will be at least a thousand years into our future. The Bride of Christ will get to see this city MUCH sooner than you will:

Hebrews 12:22
But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

The Bride will see this city while it is a heavenly city. Check out 1 Thes. 4 for the timing.

Rev_21:2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Rev_21:10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

When does the New Jerusalem come down to where we are?

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Here you go again, putting two NON-RELATED scriptures together to fool and deceive people. When one refuses to pull verses out of context, we know that the New Jerusalem will NOT come down until the millennial Reign is finished - well over 1000 years from NOW. But of course, you can't even believe God when He writes of a thousand years - so how can we expect you to believe what John wrote AFTER that thousand years?

...

The gathering of the Church found in 1st Thessalonians chapter 4 occurs on the day of the Lord.


1Th 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

1Th 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.


Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Again you have a SERIOUS problem with TIME. You write as if it does not exist: that everything written will take place and ONCE!

You don't even know when THE DAY begins, and you imagine it is one 24 hour day - so how could you hope to discover the timing of things IN the Day of the Lord. The truth is, WHEN the Day begins, at the 6th seal, it will CONTINUE at least until AFTER the 1000 year reign of Christ ends, and it may just go forever.

 

[iamlamad]

Harpazo! We will be caught up at the sound of the last trumpet, which is number 7. If number 7 wasn't the last, then the last would be number 8. If the last was before the seven trumpets then it wouldn't be the last. How do pre-tribbers get around this. Well, they redefine it as some other unique trump of God apart from any series of trumpets ... you see. Well, I don't buy it.
Question: Reason with me. If we have to endure the first six trumpet events, which are in themselves pretty devastating to the planet, wouldn't you think many Christians (or those who actually claimed to be) would "fall away" when they saw this world catastrophe and they were still here. Especially the pre-tribbers would say, "Hey, what's going on, how come God hasn't taken us out? True Christians would figure that they were wrong and must endure for awhile longer. But what many who aren't born again, those who never really believed, you know, those spoken about in the Parable of the Sower, where the seed was planted in shallow soil and when troubles came, the plant withered and died because the roots weren't deep.
Wouldn't that be the considered the "falling away". The rapture happens like a thief in the night to those who are not on watch, to those who are in the dark. "But you, brothers, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief." 1 Thes. 5:4

You don't even know the truth about "the falling away" and yet are here trying to teach others?
IN CASE YOU MISSED IT: John SAW the raptured church IN HEAVEN (Rev. 7) before any of the angels got their trumpets in their hands to sound them.

It's interesting that in Islamic countries, like Libya, Syria, Iraq, and other countries where Islamic terrorism threatens Christianity, Judaism and whoever else gets in their way, a great tribulation is occurring. If you had to flee in fear of your life and saw your father's head chopped off or your 7 year old sister being raped, wouldn't you think that you were going through a Great Tribulation?
OF COURSE! That is why when John saw the raptured church in heaven, Rev. 7, it is written that they came out of "great tribulation." The truth is, GT is happening in many parts of the world today and WILL GET WORSE. The bride will certainly come "out of GT." But this is NOT the same days of great tribulation that Jesus spoke of, that will be worse than ALL others.


This is the beginning, the stage is being set. Sweden's influx of refugees resulted in the highest number of rapes per capita in the world. That's what they got for the Christmas holidays. And Obama wants to invite them over here, feed them, give them a home, while they eventually turn against us. Judgment Day is coming. We may not have to wait for a WWIII (as some have already stated has begun), but God may intervene like a thief in the night. He may send a couple asteroids our way? Btw, Planet X is no longer a myth, NASA just admitted and confirmed a ninth planet a week or so ago. So that 80's scientist (Harrington?) was accurate. He died mysteriously and his claims were refuted and were made out to be heretical. Some say, it's on it's way towards earth (with a couple asteroids following it) and you can actually see it on the horizon, at sunset, with a high powered infrared telescope of course. ???When? March, April of this year -- Happy Easter!
I do hope the pre-tribbers are right and before this happens, rapture me up thank you very much. Unfortunately, I think we'll have to go through the first six trumpet events before we are taken out at the seventh trumpet. At least we won't experience the seven bowls of wrath poured out.
It appears then that you are not sure. In that case, BE WATCHING and EXPECTING His coming.

Oh, one more thing, might as well throw this in there too. The "woman clothed with the sun and the moon at her feet" in Rev. 12 is symbolically Israel and the child is Jesus. However, literally, it is also a sign in the heavens. Virgo is a constellation that will appear clothed in the sun with moon at her feet with 12 stars around her head on Sept. 23, 2017. This exact constellation happened when Jesus was born as well, which was figured to be Sept. 11, 3 B.C.E. FYI

Lamad's answers in dark red above.
I went to Stellarium and found what Virgo looked like in 2 BC when Jesus was born. I could NOT find it anything like in 2 BC anything in 2017, much less Sept. 23. The three planets were NOT in the crown as they are in 2 BC.

 

[keras]

I hope you guys will not be upset with me for the following...
However, I am going to ask the question anyway.
Are the 144,000 on earth or in heaven?
If they are in heaven, could they have been there for hundreds of years?

The 144K are selected from all the Lord's righteous people who will gather in all of the holy Land, soon after the Sixth Seal devastation of the entire Middle East. The sequence in Revelation is correct; the first six Seals, then people from every tribe, race, nation and language, all true believers, all those who stood firm in their faith during the terrible Day of the Lord's wrath, will travel to and live in in new nation of Beulah. Isaiah 66:15-21, Isaiah 62:1-5, Ezekiel 34:11-31, Psalms 107:1-43
Jesus will appear to them, Isaiah 24:23, 2 Thessalonians 1:10, Revelation 14:1, and He will select those 144,000 missionaries, who will go out to the world and proclaim the coming Kingdom of Jesus. Just as the 72 did. Luke 10:1-10

THEN - the Seventh Seal is opened, which is a time gap of a half hour in heaven, that equals about 20 years earth time. This is right, it allows for the settling in and rebuilding, incl the new Temple, 7 years of the Gog/Magog clean up and the 7 year treaty with the AC.

 

[Postvieww]

WRONG! He was addressing Jewish men about the end of the JEWISH age. They all became a part of the JEWISH church, but that church disappeared. It is the GENTILE church of today that was as it were an parentheses placed into the Jewish timeline.

Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it

Wrong! Peter and the other disciples are in the same church you and I are in. That church did not disappear and another appear. Gentiles were brought into the church but there is only one church.

Acts 21:39 But Paul said, I am a man which am a Jew of Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, a citizen of no mean city: and, I beseech thee, suffer me to speak unto the people.

Paul was a Jew he also was in the same church you and I are in.

There is only one more coming of the Lord in scripture and Matt24:29-31 is it, just like 1 Thess 4:16 is it.

 

[John S]

So 1 Thes. 4 & 5 and John 14 are blasphemous, satanic filth? God will wash your mouth out with soap! He expects you to BELIEVE them.

No, you are wrong. I have not decided at all. THEY have decided not to believe Jesus will come to take them to their mansions. It is and will be THEIR choice. I am only warning them of the consequences of their choices.

John, let me ask you a very straightforward question: are YOU watching for Jesus coming today and on a daily basis?

NO - because He won't be coming until He puts an end to The Day of the Lord (WWIII), which hasn't begun yet.

Your blasphemous Rapture will NOT be happening, regardless of how many mouths you think need to be washed out.