The Marriage Debate

[William67]

Exactly. This thread reeks of bitterness and resentment towards women.

As I stated before, since I'm not of that particular bent, I don't mention men, but men are much more vile in the area of sexual immorality than women.

It isn't bitterness and resentment toward women. Its the bitterness and resentment toward the casual acceptance of sin.

 

[Sketcher]

Because no one seems to take sexual immorality seriously anymore. Its as if everyone is saying, "everyone has sex, get over it". I struck me reading the bad boys thread that a lot of people were saying, "well girls want bad boys when theyre young, but when they grow up, they want a good man". Well, it doesn't work that way. If you want a "good man" you need to be a "good woman".

And you may not like my rant, but as long as people keep quiet and "go along", nothing will change. Sometimes you need to stand up and say, "Just because you can be forgiven your sins doesn't mean there aren't real world consequences for improper actions".

I agree with the first paragraph. Your "standing up" has done nothing to fix it. You can't fix it without displaying grace. You sound like you have no grace at all, and that alienates the very people who are deceived into believing in accepting sin and/or cheap grace.

 

[William67]

so you desire to feel the full impact of your own sins?

I walked into a hospital room and saw my best friend laying in the bed where I had put him. He had a severe concussion, multiple broken ribs, a fractured jaw, cheek, damaged orbital socket, missing teeth, and severe facial lacerations...all of which I had given him and didn't remember doing it. I had also dislocated both of his shoulders, herniated disc, and caused internal injuries.

Ive seen the full impact of my sins. He still carries the scars. We had played together as babies and had grown up together. He was, and still is thanks to God, like my brother. And while I believe God has forgiven me, I will not forgive myself.

 

[Sketcher]

I walked into a hospital room and saw my best friend laying in the bed where I had put him. He had a severe concussion, multiple broken ribs, a fractured jaw, cheek, damaged orbital socket, missing teeth, and severe facial lacerations...all of which I had given him and didn't remember doing it. I had also dislocated both of his shoulders, herniated disc, and caused internal injuries.

Ive seen the full impact of my sins. He still carries the scars. We had played together as babies and had grown up together. He was, and still is thanks to God, like my brother. And while I believe God has forgiven me, I will not forgive myself.

Maybe that's part of the problem.

 

[LoveDivine]

As I stated before, since I'm not of that particular bent, I don't mention men, but men are much more vile in the area of sexual immorality than women.

It isn't bitterness and resentment toward women. Its the bitterness and resentment toward the casual acceptance of sin.

This all sounds very good and noble. This is just a ruse to cloak your harshness. Your comments would only be justifiable if you were actually responding to others comments that brushed off the seriousness of sexual sins. Why is sexual sin the only thing you target in your rants? Could that be because this is the only area you have victory in personally? Thus you can be the moral champion in the arena of your own choosing

 

[William67]

I agree with the first paragraph. Your "standing up" has done nothing to fix it. You can't fix it without displaying grace. You sound like you have no grace at all, and that alienates the very people who are deceived into believing in accepting sin and/or cheap grace.

What you believe is up to you. I make no apologies for pointing out the duplicity of current morality.

 

[Sketcher]

What you believe is up to you. I make no apologies for pointing out the duplicity of current morality.

There's a time and a place and a manner for that. This doesn't meet that. Seriously, if I of all people am calling you out, that ought to be a sign that you should be listening. I'm not exactly a sexual liberal.

 

[William67]

This all sounds very good and noble. This is just a ruse to cloak your harshness. Your comments would only be justifiable if you were actually responding to comments that brushed off the seriousness of sexual sins. Why is sexual sin the only thing you target in your rants? Could that be because this is the only area you have victory in personally? Thus you can be the moral champion in the arena of your own choosing

Because sexual sins seem to be one of the few sins which are acceptable these days. Pretty much everyone agrees that theft, murder, etc. are unacceptable, but sex? No, that's ok. "Want to party on Saturday night? Great! Go to church on Sunday and mouth a few words about being sorry and its forgiven", seems to be the rules of modern society, even among Christians.

I'm just getting sick of "going along to get along" so to speak.

 

[William67]

There's a time and a place and a manner for that. This doesn't meet that. Seriously, if I of all people am calling you out, that ought to be a sign that you should be listening. I'm not exactly a sexual liberal.

And where exactly would that be? A nice quiet place where no one will hear or be offended?

You know, maybe I am just wasting my time. Maybe we should just let the world keep swirling down the old crapper.

 

[LoveDivine]

Because sexual sins seem to be one of the few sins which are acceptable these days. Pretty much everyone agrees that theft, murder, etc. are unacceptable, but sex? No, that's ok. "Want to party on Saturday night? Great! Go to church on Sunday and mouth a few words about being sorry and its forgiven", seems to be the rules of modern society, even among Christians.

I'm just getting sick of "going along to get along" so to speak.

No one in this thread is justifying sexual sin or downplaying the consequences that accompany fornication. In fact, the ones that are taking the most issue with your statements are your fellow conservative Christians. We are trying to tell you that these posts are bad. They don't reflect upon you well. Christianity is a religion of the heart. Motivation, pride and arrogance are just as damning as sexual sin and equally downplayed. I guess you are just really blind to the arrogance and harshness that is exuding from these recent posts.

 

[William67]

No one in this thread is justifying sexual sin or downplaying the consequences that accompany fornication. In fact, the ones that are taking the most issue with your statements are your fellow conservative Christians. We are trying to tell you that these posts are bad. They don't reflect upon you well. Christianity is a religion of the heart. Motivation, pride and arrogance are just as damning as sexual sin and equally downplayed. I guess you are just really blind to the arrogance and harshness that is exuding from these recent posts.

Anger is not a sin.

 

[Gnarwhal]

I walked into a hospital room and saw my best friend laying in the bed where I had put him. He had a severe concussion, multiple broken ribs, a fractured jaw, cheek, damaged orbital socket, missing teeth, and severe facial lacerations...all of which I had given him and didn't remember doing it. I had also dislocated both of his shoulders, herniated disc, and caused internal injuries.

Ive seen the full impact of my sins. He still carries the scars. We had played together as babies and had grown up together. He was, and still is thanks to God, like my brother. And while I believe God has forgiven me, I will not forgive myself.

Does it make you feel like more of a man by going into that kind of graphic detail? Are you getting the satisfaction of being "the tough guy" because you're talking tough in a place where nobody can make you prove it?

I've noticed some things about you. 1st you have a massive superiority complex. You brag about your alleged skills as a survivalist, as a farmer, as an engineer—you boast more than everyone on this entire website combined.

2nd, you're have massive pride issues. I've never seen anyone so priggish, who is completely comfortable seeing someone as irredeemable for one sin, and yet openly talks about a history of assault, murder and what circumstances would provoke him to do it again. I mean seriously, how hypocritical can you be? You're honestly going to tell us that you're more righteous than a woman who made the mistake of sleeping with someone even ONE TIME and you regularly talk about shooting people in the head if they cross you or other hyper-violent threats? Give me a break. If you're judged half as harshly as you judge these people, your eternity will be dark, lonely and cold.

3rd, you carry with these judgments an indignant attitude, as if you're the lone white knight traversing the bank of the river styx, lamenting the lack of any she-Williams in the dating world.

I won't presume to say whether you are a Christian or not, despite the indicators from your behavior. I will say this though, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if you got to heaven and Christ said, "I am utterly ashamed of you".

 

[LoveDivine]

Does it make you feel like more of a man by going into that kind of graphic detail? Are you getting the satisfaction of being "the tough guy" because you're talking tough in a place where nobody can make you prove it?

I've noticed some things about you. 1st you have a massive superiority complex. You brag about your alleged skills as a survivalist, as a farmer, as an engineer—you boast more than everyone on this entire website combined.

2nd, you're have massive pride issues. I've never seen anyone so priggish, who is completely comfortable seeing someone as irredeemable for one sin, and yet openly talks about a history of assault, murder and what circumstances would provoke him to do it again. I mean seriously, how hypocritical can you be? You're honestly going to tell us that you're more righteous than a woman who made the mistake of sleeping with someone even ONE TIME and you regularly talk about shooting people in the head if they cross you or other hyper-violent threats? Give me a break. If you're judged half as harshly as you judge these people, your eternity will be dark, lonely and cold.

3rd, you carry with these judgments an indignant attitude, as if you're the lone white knight traversing the bank of the river styx, lamenting the lack of any she-Williams in the dating world.

I won't presume to say whether you are a Christian or not, despite the indicators from your behavior. I will say this though, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if you got to heaven and Christ said, "I am utterly ashamed of you".

I agree with your analysis Darth Bagel. I have noticed a similar pattern in his posts and that observation has prompted my comments tonight.

 

[Sketcher]

And where exactly would that be? A nice quiet place where no one will hear or be offended?

The truth is offensive enough to those who have been deceived. Our own sin and folly makes it more offensive. Right now, your anger and bitterness are adding much offense to the truth, and the truth doesn't need that.

Separate your own anger from the truth. Seek God on how to tell it with grace. Don't be so obsessed with something you dislike that you bring it up constantly in discussion, especially when the OP hasn't directly asked about that thing, specifically - that indicates a grudge, and people tend to write off others who have obvious grudges. When you have to bring something up, have as much grace as you can possibly get away with, not the minimum amount to satisfy your conscience.

 

[GQ Chris]

Wonder if the OP has been listening to Tom Leykis.

 

[William67]

Does it make you feel like more of a man by going into that kind of graphic detail? Are you getting the satisfaction of being "the tough guy" because you're talking tough in a place where nobody can make you prove it?

I've noticed some things about you. 1st you have a massive superiority complex. You brag about your alleged skills as a survivalist, as a farmer, as an engineer—you boast more than everyone on this entire website combined.

2nd, you're have massive pride issues. I've never seen anyone so priggish, who is completely comfortable seeing someone as irredeemable for one sin, and yet openly talks about a history of assault, murder and what circumstances would provoke him to do it again. I mean seriously, how hypocritical can you be? You're honestly going to tell us that you're more righteous than a woman who made the mistake of sleeping with someone even ONE TIME and you regularly talk about shooting people in the head if they cross you or other hyper-violent threats? Give me a break. If you're judged half as harshly as you judge these people, your eternity will be dark, lonely and cold.

3rd, you carry with these judgments an indignant attitude, as if you're the lone white knight traversing the bank of the river styx, lamenting the lack of any she-Williams in the dating world.

I won't presume to say whether you are a Christian or not, despite the indicators from your behavior. I will say this though, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if you got to heaven and Christ said, "I am utterly ashamed of you".

That wasn't graphic, that was a list. Graphic would have been describing how those injuries could have been inflicted. And no, I don't get any satisfaction out of my past. Quite the opposite, but I'm not going to hide my sins, either. I will admit them openly as we are instructed to do. There are people who are much worse than I, and if even one of them says to themselves, "If someone as low and vile as he can be accepted by God, then I can, too". Then, it is worth all the name calling and insults. Your name calling and insults are as water on a ducks back to me.

I have two "preferences" in a wife. And remember, these are MY preferences. 1. That she is pure and that 2. She not be divorced.

What you mistake for a "superiority complex" is just my upbringing, which I didn't choose. When you live on a farm you learn how to do those things. When your family runs short of food during a bad year, you learn what things you can eat which grow wild. Its called growing up poor. Telling the truth isn't bragging even if it makes Darth Bagel feel inadequate. There are many, many people that have far more "skills" than I. Most people have skills I know nothing about. But because they know more than me, or know different things than me, and they talk about it, I don't assume they are bragging. I appreciate it when people talk about the things they know because I may learn something. BlackRibbon and I don't agree on much, but when it comes to medical issues, I would listen to her. I enjoyed giving dreaminofireland that stack cake recipe because she enjoyed the praise her father gave her. She thanked me, but I didn't receive kudos for it because she was the one who made it. And for people who truly are braggarts, kudos are all that matter.

Truly, most of the people here are only words on a forum. Which is why I don't usually get angry when people try to insult me online.

I never said they were irredeemable. I said I didn't want to marry someone with an immoral past. And where did I ever "brag" about murder? I said I quit a job because it was getting to me, to a point where I had dreams about killing someone. I didnt like having those dreams, which is why I quit. And I have never suggested killing someone if they "cross me".

And Ive never even suggested that I'm a "white knight". Far from it. I have repeatedly stated that I am as low of a sinner as has ever walked the earth.

 

[William67]

Wonder if the OP has been listening to Tom Leykis.

Ummm, who? Ive never heard of him.

 

[Gnarwhal]

Wonder if the OP has been listening to Tom Leykis.

Because... if that's all he listened to then that's how he would think the entire world is?

 

[Sketcher]

I have two "preferences" in a wife. And remember, these are MY preferences. 1. That she is pure and that 2. She not be divorced.

If these are just your preferences, why get all mad? Is this about morality, or is it about your preferences?

 

[William67]

The truth is offensive enough to those who have been deceived. Our own sin and folly makes it more offensive. Right now, your anger and bitterness are adding much offense to the truth, and the truth doesn't need that.

Separate your own anger from the truth. Seek God on how to tell it with grace. Don't be so obsessed with something you dislike that you bring it up constantly in discussion, especially when the OP hasn't directly asked about that thing, specifically - that indicates a grudge, and people tend to write off others who have obvious grudges. When you have to bring something up, have as much grace as you can possibly get away with, not the minimum amount to satisfy your conscience.

Ive tried the nice, polite way before and it gets you nowhere. Its just that over the years I have watched as morality has become a "dirty word". If you disagree with someone's choices and lifestyle, you are attacked. You can only take so much of that before it boils over.

I have no "moral ground" to stand on when it comes to things like "violence" and even greed, since most of my adult working life has been about making money. One of the few areas where I can say I haven't sinned is when it comes to "sins of the flesh". So, when I constantly see, in the world, and online, that fornication is ok, and that people who abstain are "judgmental", arrogant, and that if you don't accept those who have sinned in that area, you aren't Christian, it tends to make me angry.