Did the Catholic Church changed the Sabbath to Sunday?

[BobRyan]

And "no" God did not say in Is 56 that "All nations must live in Israel" before they can honor their parents or keep the 7th day Sabbath.

Is 56
“Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—
7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain,
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices
Will be accepted on My altar;
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”
8 The Lord God, who gathers the outcasts of Israel, says,
“Yet I will gather to him
Others besides those who are gathered to him.”

They were still to have nations - but they were to worship the one true God.

 

[Meowzltov]

All mankind will be sinless after the 2nd coming - so "why preach against sin now"?? is that the sort of argument you want to make?

We preach against sin now because mankind is sinful now. You are making no sense.

 

[BobRyan]

Hard to believe that it "makes no sense" to admit the obvious point that mankind is not obediently all worshiping God each week.

Hard to believe that it "makes no sense" to admit the obvious point that during the Rev 21 New Earth and New Event age - for all of eternity ALL mankind will in fact be obediently worshiping God each week.

Hard to believe that it "makes no sense" to admit the obvious point that Is 66:23 is telling the truth about the TWO cycles - on which all mankind will be worshiping God.

 

[BobRyan]

Chirstians were worshipping solely on Sunday long before the RCC came to power.
bugkiller

Is it your "tradition" to suppose that they were doing that in the first century - every week?

Historical documents show they were.

Not according to the historical document -- "The Bible"

Over on the General Theology section of this board we have a lot of discussion on the subject "Sola Scriptura" testing of all doctrine and tradition. Some are opposed to it. Might that group include "you"??

in Christ,

Bob

 

[bugkiller]

Hard to believe that it "makes no sense" to admit the obvious point that mankind is not obediently all worshiping God each week.

Hard to believe that it "makes no sense" to admit the obvious point that during the Rev 21 New Earth and New Event age - for all of eternity ALL mankind will in fact be obediently worshiping God each week.

Hard to believe that it "makes no sense" to admit the obvious point that Is 66:23 is telling the truth about the TWO cycles - on which all mankind will be worshiping God.

Hard to believe anyone can be justified by keeping an amended defunct covenant.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Is it your "tradition" to suppose that they were doing that in the first century - every week?

No.

Not according to the historical document -- "The Bible"

Beg your pardon. Where do you think John the Revelator got the expression used in 1:10?

Over on the General Theology section of this board we have a lot of discussion on the subject "Sola Scriptura" testing of all doctrine and tradition. Some are opposed to it. Might that group include "you"??

Why do you ask? If I've participated in that discussion its been eons. Maybe you have a post in mind.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

The ol' "foreigner is not a foreigner" fails the test of scripture in Is 56.

Because we "pay attention to the details" --

Is 56
“Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—
7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain,
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices
Will be accepted on My altar;
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”
8 The Lord God, who gathers the outcasts of Israel, says,
“Yet I will gather to him
Others besides those who are gathered to him.”

Did I miss something in Ex 12:48?

bugkiller

 

[Meowzltov]

Hard to believe that it "makes no sense" to admit the obvious point that mankind is not obediently all worshiping God each week.

Hard to believe that it "makes no sense" to admit the obvious point that during the Rev 21 New Earth and New Event age - for all of eternity ALL mankind will in fact be obediently worshiping God each week.

Hard to believe that it "makes no sense" to admit the obvious point that Is 66:23 is telling the truth about the TWO cycles - on which all mankind will be worshiping God.

None of this addresses what I said. The exact comment you said made no sense. I stand by what I said.

 

[Bob S]

And "no" God did not say in Is 56 that "All nations must live in Israel" before they can honor their parents or keep the 7th day Sabbath.

Is 56
“Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—
7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain,
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices
Will be accepted on My altar;
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”

It appears that no one has kept from defiling the Sabbath. Isaiah 58: 13 “If you keep your feet from breaking the Sabbath
and from doing as you please on my holy day,
if you call the Sabbath a delight
and the Lord’s holy day honorable,
and if you honor it by not going your own way
and not doing as you please or speaking idle words,
14 then you will find your joy in the Lord,

IF you, do you? I contend that there is not on Sabbath "keeper" that really keeps Sabbath. Your contention that you keep the Sabbath is nothing but a misnomer. Israel, a totalitarian nation, fell short of keeping the Sabbath which was made especially for them and held significance for them as being holy because they were delivered from bondage, why do you believe you can actually "keep" it?



8 The Lord God, who gathers the outcasts of Israel, says,
“Yet I will gather to him
Others besides those who are gathered to him.”

They were still to have nations - but they were to worship the one true God.

 

[bugkiller]

And "no" God did not say in Is 56 that "All nations must live in Israel" before they can honor their parents or keep the 7th day Sabbath.

Is 56
“Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—
7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain,
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices
Will be accepted on My altar;
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”
8 The Lord God, who gathers the outcasts of Israel, says,
“Yet I will gather to him
Others besides those who are gathered to him.”

They were still to have nations - but they were to worship the one true God.

Exactly what are you trying to say? Are you saying those who don't worship on Saturday are serving a pagan god? It sure appears that way.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Hard to believe that it "makes no sense" to admit the obvious point that mankind is not obediently all worshiping God each week.

Hard to believe that it "makes no sense" to admit the obvious point that during the Rev 21 New Earth and New Event age - for all of eternity ALL mankind will in fact be obediently worshiping God each week.

That simply isn't what Isa 66:23 says.

Hard to believe that it "makes no sense" to admit the obvious point that Is 66:23 is telling the truth about the TWO cycles - on which all mankind will be worshiping God.

Sorry but that isn't my covenant nor is it anyone else's except Israel.

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

Hard to believe that it "makes no sense" to admit the obvious point that mankind is not obediently all worshiping God each week.

Hard to believe that it "makes no sense" to admit the obvious point that during the Rev 21 New Earth and New Event age - for all of eternity ALL mankind will in fact be obediently worshiping God each week.

Hard to believe that it "makes no sense" to admit the obvious point that Is 66:23 is telling the truth about the TWO cycles - on which all mankind will be worshiping God.

Which is in perfect harmony with the NEW COVENANT - made with the saints -

Thus in the NEW Covenant made with the saints and found in the OLD Testament we find -

31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant which they broke, though I was their husband, says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it upon their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Jer 31:31-33, Hebrews 8:6-10

That simply isn't what Isa 66:23 says.
Sorry but that isn't my covenant nor is it anyone else's except Israel.

bugkiller

you have free will - you may reject the New Covenant and the eternal future for mankind found in Is 66:23 - if you wish.

 

[BobRyan]

I never said anything became binding after the cross.

Regarding your point #4: So if you understand that "all mankind" will keep the Sabbath only after the second coming, why are you even bothering to mention this verse????? It doesn't do anything for your case.

All mankind will be sinless after the 2nd coming - so "why preach against sin now"?? is that the sort of argument you want to make?

We preach against sin now because mankind is sinful now. You are making no sense.

Hard to believe that it "makes no sense" to admit the obvious point that mankind is not obediently all worshiping God each week.

Hard to believe that it "makes no sense" to admit the obvious point that during the Rev 21 New Earth and New Event age - for all of eternity ALL mankind will in fact be obediently worshiping God each week.

Hard to believe that it "makes no sense" to admit the obvious point that Is 66:23 is telling the truth about the TWO cycles - on which all mankind will be worshiping God.

None of this addresses what I said. The exact comment you said made no sense. I stand by what I said.

Until we actually read the posts - and "see the point" in response to your " "all mankind" will keep the Sabbath only after the second coming, why are you even bothering to mention this verse" ---as if mankind today in rebellion against God should pay no attention at all to the direction God has for obedient mankind.

your argument that we should not pay attention to the Bible in Is 56 and Is 66 regarding the Sabbath for gentiles in the OT and the Sabbath "for all mankind" in all of eternity future -- makes no sense. In the same way that your argument against admitting to the TWO cycles given in Is 66:23 (the monthly and the weekly) -- which you now admit was wrong -- made no sense.

 

[Meowzltov]

Until we actually read the posts - and "see the point" in response to your " "all mankind" will keep the Sabbath only after the second coming, why are you even bothering to mention this verse" ---as if mankind today in rebellion against God should pay no attention at all to the direction God has for obedient mankind.

I'm sympathetic to this argument. But keeping the Sabbath is a ritual observance, not a moral observance. It has nothing to do with sinfulness as it was never commanded for the world to keep in the first place.

 

[TomorrowsWorld]

h

 

[Bob S]

http://www.tomorrowsworld.org/booklets/satans-counterfeit-christianity

Sunday keeping churches are part of SATANS COUNTERFEIT CHRISTIANITY

It is wrong for you to tell us that without explaining why. From where do you get your information? Sounds like something Hebert Armstrong would write. Wonder where he got his information? Any way, please let us in on what you believe is the truth. Otherwise it is nothing but a terrible insult to most of Christianity.

By the way, most of us do not "keep" Sunday. There is no such thing. We assemble ourselves to worship our Savior, learn and fellowship. Is there a law in all of scripture that doing that is a sin and a counterfeit? Kinda disgusting statement don't you think? Parroting others can sometimes get you into more than you bargained.

 

[bugkiller]

Which is in perfect harmony with the NEW COVENANT - made with the saints -

Thus in the NEW Covenant made with the saints and found in the OLD Testament we find -

31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant which they broke, though I was their husband, says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it upon their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Jer 31:31-33, Hebrews 8:6-10



you have free will - you may reject the New Covenant and the eternal future for mankind found in Is 66:23 - if you wish.

IOW you're technically saying I'm lost as in not saved.

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

I'm sympathetic to this argument. But keeping the Sabbath is a ritual observance, not a moral observance.

Even your own RCC rejects that doctrine as it claims that the Sabbath commandment in the TEN commandments is for mankind - and is not "cultic" limited to Jews -- and the Bible says it is for ALL mankind in Is 66:23 -- and of course your own RCC denies the idea that not going to that you-know-what every Sunday -- is not a moral sin.

"It has nothing to do with sinfulness " until you read what your own RCC says about it.

Until you read 1 John 3:4.

Until you read James 2

until you read Eph 6:2

A point so incredibly obvious that - they all "get it" when it comes to the Sabbath Commandment - within the TEN Commandments.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
In legal terms - what does it mean to change one of the TEN commandments in the law - so that its obligation, its authority, its observance is now transferred to some other day - other than the one as given in that Command??

Obviously it means the same thing your own Catholic Commentary on the Baltimore Catechism says it means

I haven't avoided it. I've described it many, many, many times. It is the transferring of the solemnity of the Sabbath to the Lord's Day (Sunday).

I know you don't like it that we did this. That's fine. For me, I keep a Saturday Sabbath of rest (as I'm a Jew) and also keep the solemnity of the Lord's Day by attending Mass. So it really doesn't bother me that you disagree. I just wish that you could see that the Lord's Day and the Sabbath are kept in two entirely different ways, and therefore don't conflict. They only thing they really have in common is that both are holy.

IF both are holy - if both Sunday (week-day-1 as the Bible calls it) and the Sabbath retain their solemnity - then you claim to ADD solemnity to Sunday rather than TRANSFER FROM Sabbath.

 

[Cribstyl]

And "no" God did not say in Is 56 that "All nations must live in Israel" before they can honor their parents or keep the 7th day Sabbath.

Is 56
“Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—
7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain,
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices
Will be accepted on My altar;
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”
8 The Lord God, who gathers the outcasts of Israel, says,
“Yet I will gather to him
Others besides those who are gathered to him.”

They were still to have nations - but they were to worship the one true God.

LoL, You're spreading old news.......
Anyone with a thorough understanding of scriptures knows that you're selling the Old Covenant and rejecting the more glorious (New) Covenant.

You keep quoting Moses from the OT as if Christ's blood is not the guarantee of the New Covenant. (blind leading blind)

Does God accept burnt offerings and sacrifices?
Isa 56 was prophetical truth for the strangers who joined Israel under the Old Covenant.

Christ made it clear that the Law and the Prophets served until John. And the gospel of the kingdom (faith in Christ) was "the way" going forward.
Luk 16:16


The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.