Does Science Agree With the Bible?

[dad]

29+ Evidences for Macroevolution

Moat of the 29 idiotic points are blather. The first point says this "

.. fossil remains which are the evidences of these successive changes,.."

That is not evidence man fossilized in the former nature but a glib statement of faith with precisely zero support.

 

[dad]

Where is the evidence that any one has something called the "Holy Spirit of God"?

The fruit of the spirit.

 

[Loudmouth]

The fruit of the spirit.

Where is the evidence that spirits produce fruit?

 

[Loudmouth]

Moat of the 29 idiotic points are blather. The first point says this "

.. fossil remains which are the evidences of these successive changes,.."

That is not evidence man fossilized in the former nature but a glib statement of faith with precisely zero support.

Once again, you refuse to address the evidence.

 

[dad]

Where is the evidence that spirits produce fruit?

In people who have it.

 

[dad]

Once again, you refuse to address the evidence.

Claiming fossils are something that supports your beliefs while offering zero support is not evidence. That is insanity and fanaticism.

 

[The Cadet]

It was because I was honest with myself and realized that I'm nothing without Christ. I had to come to the realization that I had to surrender my all to be like Christ. Like Paul did.

You came to this realization. Okay. How do you know that this realization is accurate? There are men in psych wards who have come to the realization that they are Christ. Obviously, they're wrong, and we can tell by examining evidence outside them, but how can we assess whether or not your realization is accurate, or whether you're simply deluding yourself? And I don't simply mean for our sake. I mean for your sake as well - how can you know that you're not prostrating yourself, that you aren't completely eliminating your own self-worth, for a false cause? This is my problem when you say this:

A third epistemological tool is introspection. If you want to know about what’s going on in your internal state, or your mind, all you have to do is introspect. This will also give you knowledge about our reality and our world.

But it cannot give you knowledge about the reality outside your own head. When you query your thoughts, your thoughts will only ever give you, well, your thoughts. You cannot introspect yourself to a truth about reality. The moment a claim X involves something outside of your head, "I know X is true because I introspected it" becomes worthless. You cannot possibly know that you are worthless without Christ through pure introspection.

It isn't about me. It's all about Christ. He's my savior. And you can't more truthful than that.

But how do you know this?

 

[Loudmouth]

Claiming fossils are something that supports your beliefs while offering zero support is not evidence. That is insanity and fanaticism.

You won't accept fossils as evidence, ever.

 

[Edmond Smith]

You came to this realization. Okay. How do you know that this realization is accurate? There are men in psych wards who have come to the realization that they are Christ. Obviously, they're wrong, and we can tell by examining evidence outside them, but how can we assess whether or not your realization is accurate, or whether you're simply deluding yourself? And I don't simply mean for our sake. I mean for your sake as well - how can you know that you're not prostrating yourself, that you aren't completely eliminating your own self-worth, for a false cause? This is my problem when you say this:

To answer your first question. Because the desires of my heart aren't what they use to be. My desires were about me and only me. I was pretty selfish and self absorbed. Christ showed me that wasn't in the fathers will, by scripture.

You have heard that it was said, "You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy."
But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?
Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

So then I question, how can I be perfect, when I'm human and falliable. There was no way I could do that.
Then I saw this:

Gal 2:20
“I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

I realized then and there. That I wanted to be more like Christ. He's already lives in me and I live by faith in Christ. So when God the Father looks down upon me, He will know me because He sees Christ in me.

I'm not saying that I am the messiah, Jesus Christ.
I'm saying that when you have faith and place your trust in Christ.


I agree, that many a crazed person has claimed to be Christ. Jim jones and the group from Waco texas. It does happen. But that doesn't mean because they did, every one else who proclaims their life to be like Christ.
Plus as you see in Gal 2:20, Paul doesn't say He is the Christ. He says just as I am saying the I die to myself, I surrender all to Christ. And Christ lives in me and I live by faith. I'm still here...it's just not all about me anymore. As puts there." and the life which I now live in the flesh (this is now) I live by faith in the Son of God" I place my trust in Him.

Big difference between that and saying "I am the Messiah, Jesus Christ".
Christ even warns us about people like that. And how to tell them apart from Him.

Matt 24:11-15
"Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many.
"And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.
"But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
"And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

Many will come, because of the sins of this world and those who's love grows cold, other words, they don't love Christ, they love themselves and only what to hear what makes them feel good.
But those of us who endures, will be saved.
And How to tell the true from the false:
The gospel of the kingdom will be preached.
The Gospel of Christ.

Fake and crazy ppl who claim to be Christ...usually make it about them and what they can get out of it.



It's like the trust you had as a child, when you would jump from the couch into your fathers or mothers arm. You just knew they were going to catch you. You didn't even think of them just yanking their arms away and letting you fall to the floor.
That's the faith I have and many other in Christ. And that He is there in me, guiding me and helping me along the way.
Will it be easy. No way. Christ said many would hate us, because they hated Him. Life still goes on, even for those of us who are Born again. Still got bills, families, enemies, work...etc.etc.

Who says it's a false cause? you?...an opinion

Living for Christ isn't a cause. it's a life, full and abundant life. Trusting in Him. Knowing that He is risen and alive today.
Knowing that one day we will meet Him and be judged by Him. Knowing that what He did, He did for us, so that we wouldn't have to face the wrath to come.

But it cannot give you knowledge about the reality outside your own head. When you query your thoughts, your thoughts will only ever give you, well, your thoughts. You cannot introspect yourself to a truth about reality. The moment a claim X involves something outside of your head, "I know X is true because I introspected it" becomes worthless. You cannot possibly know that you are worthless without Christ through pure introspection.

Why can't you introspect to a truth? A truth is the truth. Cannot be contradicting itself and there are absolute truths, that should be thought about. And reality in definition is truth.

REALITY
noun, plural realities for 3, 5–7.
1. the state or quality of being real.
2. resemblance to what is real.
3. a real thing or fact.
4. real things, facts, or events taken as a whole; state of affairs:
the reality of the business world; vacationing to escape reality.

Philosophy.

1. something that exists independently of ideas concerning it.
2. something that exists independently of all other things and from which all other things derive.

3. something that constitutes a real or actual thing, as distinguished from something that is merely apparent.
adjective

Idioms
9.
in reality, in fact or truth; actually:

I agree, why would I say that x is true without first investigating that to be true. That's nuts...as your trying to say.


Never said I was worthless. Because Christ makes me worthy, By what he did for us and thru grace and mercy.
I understand perfectly well the reality outside my own head. The world is sinful, people are not good, none are righteous, if we were to get what we deserved from God, we'd all be going to Hell. But because of grace and mercy, He gives us that which we don't deserve. Salvation, His love and eternal life with Him.

But how do you know this?

Again, I know this because of the experiences I have had with Christ and in Christ.
The life changing experience I had. The experience of seeing people healed by prayer. The experience of watching someone turn their life over to Christ and watch them grow in Christ and see the changes in their lives.
It's called experience.[/quote]

Now how bout you
Have you kept the 10 commandments?
Have you lied?
Have you stolen?
Have you looked at a woman or man in lust? that's called adultery.Matthew 5:27,28
Did you know that hatred is the same as murder 1 John 3:15

 

[dad]

You won't accept fossils as evidence, ever.

False, they are evidence, even of a lot of evolving. However you need to know what started out to be able to begin evolving! You need to know what creatures were merely different in the former state! You need to know what could not fossilize in that former nsture! Otherwise you are lost.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Here is one reason why I know you don't know anything about God.
It was because I was honest with myself and realized that I'm nothing without Christ. I had to come to the realization that I had to surrender my all to be like Christ. Like Paul did.

Phl 1:21
For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.

It isn't about me. It's all about Christ. He's my savior. And you can't more truthful than that.

Sorry, but your actions here speak louder than those words.

Again, you show your lack of knowledge about God. There is only one God. The so called versions you are talking about are the different interpretations of His Word. Or those who claim to have a god.

And you show your poor reading comprehension. Yes, the different versions are different interpretations. You version or interpretation is demonstrably wrong.


<snip of rather ridiculous defensive blather>

Not afraid at all to learn, I learn something new everyday if I can. I even told you on one post I had learned some things.
Just disagree with things that are incorrect. That is also learning. By not taking things by how they are told, to investigate them and then come to an informed conclusion. Not by standing on my opinions and guesses that others make. That you do very well.

Then you should not be afraid to learn why we know that there was no flood.

Again, you haven't shown how the God of Heaven has been shown to be wrong. I agree the god the flat earthers believe in isn't real, it's one they have made up in their own mind, to justify themselves. Because the God of Heaven created the world round and it shows that in His Word.

And again, you are conflating God with your interpretation of God. I have shown why your interpretation is wrong.

Seriously, since we all know deep down inside that all creationists are wrong, why do they take a correction on their beliefs as an attack on their God?

LOL...if it were that easy...but it isn't. If you die in your sins, when your judged by God, you will be punished for those sins.
Not a threat. A fact.

And you are back to making lame threats. Sorry, but this is not the part of the forum for making lame threats at other members.

You see, here you go again. Your opinion. which is wrong. The Word never goes out void. Every time you see or hear the scripture. Your conscience grabs hold of it and keeps it. You will be reminded of His Word, by the Holy Spirit from time to time even if you don't want it to. The law will tug at your conscience, every time you transgress it. The bible is a book, yes, and it's not to be worshipped, because it's a book. It has no mystical powers in of itself. But God's Word, has changed peoples lives because of Christ and what He did for us. it's all about Him.
Again, your opinion. Plus your showing faith. That if you don't have grandkids now, that you will have them. Plus, you never know, God may take them and change their lives so much that they make a huge impact for Christ in the world. They could become another great Preacher or Creationist Scientist, or biblical theologian....you don't know. God does.

Nope, every year fewer and fewer people believe that book and the world actually gets better and better. To do real evil it takes religious belief usually. But again, this is not the place to discuss religion, let's try to stick to the facts.

Your opinion.
Believing in God and Christ and salvation. Isn't irrational. It's extremely rational. And science will never show God to be wrong. Hasn't yet and won't. As a matter of fact, I believe science will show that there is a God and that He did what He said.
It has already in many aspects. Like the information within a Genome, Science can't explain, how it get's there.
Like the creation of Man, Science can't explain, how it happened. Oh they guess and suppose and speculate...but that's not facts.
The faith you have in Science is very irrational. You have faith in guesses and speculation.

No, if it was rational you could demonstrate it. You can't. And of course science can explain how new traits are formed. Please don't use loaded terminology such as "information". That leads to equivocation errors and dishonest debating. And why do you think that science cannot explain how man evolved? The picture is fairly complete. You really need to keep up on science.

biologos wouldn't be refuted, because they run in the same camp as you. So why would you refute it? again your opinion and it's not the God of Heaven. showing your lack of knowledge of God.

biologos can't be refuted by you because they are correct. It is not just my opinion. When you make foolish and indefensible claims you say that the other person has "only an opinion". Actually I have tons of scientific evidence that supports me, something that you don't have at all.

LOL....your funny. If I completely rejected science. I wouldnt' have become an Engineer, wouldn't work on computers, wouldn't go to the doctor, and a whole slew of things. I love science. God created it so I'm thankful for Him doing so.
Science lets me see and prove that God did do what he said.
Do I know everything scientific, NO...neither do you, I'm sure. But beings you brought up this straw man, might as well continue.

To believe in a young Earth you have to reject all of physics, biology, geology and probably a good amount of chemistry. The same applies to your belief in the flood. Again, you claim to like science, but your actions say that you don't. What sort of engineer are you? I may be able to show that you are wrong from an engineering viewpoint.

Thinking that Science is the only tool for gaining knowledge about reality and our world is a misunderstanding. This has to do with epistemology. Epistemology is a fancy word for how we come to know certain things. Yes, science is an epistemological tool that helps us gain knowledge about our world. Science is not the only tool, nor is it the best tool for figuring out all kinds of things about our world.

I never said that it is the only way to gain knowledge. But it is perhaps the strongest tool.

Again, science is a valuable tool. It does tell us about the natural world, so we can figure out the composition of certain rocks on our planet and all sorts of other things science can tell us. However, there are other tools we can use to gain knowledge about our world that are indeed more efficient, more accurate, and quicker at gaining that knowledge. Science is just one of them that happens to have been elevated above all other tools. I want to introduce you to some other ways we can come to gain knowledge about our world.

In addition to science, we have another epistemological tool: reason or logical deduction. This can also help us to gain knowledge about our world. Imagine if I were to say to you that I am taller than my wife, and my wife is taller than my daughter. Then what if I asked you, “Am I taller than my daughter?” You could know that the answer is yes. You could figure that out by reason or logical deduction because it’s another way of figuring out our world. You simply use the process of reasoning to figure it out. You didn’t use science to figure it out, yet you could know with certainty that I am taller than my daughter.

Another epistemological tool that helps us gain knowledge about our world is called testimony. For example, if I wanted to know what the weather is like in San Diego right now, I could simply call my wife and ask her. She could tell me, and I would have immediate knowledge about the external world through the virtue of testimony. Testimony can tell us lots of things about the world. If you want to know about the results of a sports game or who a killer is, eyewitness testimony can tell you that information.

Please don't conflate an observation by your wife with "testimony". The Bible is not valid for "testimony" since all of the "important parts" had no eyewitnesses.

Sorry, have evidence, you won't accept it. not my problem. Yours.

That is because you don't have valid evidence for this topic. You have nothing. You do have quite a lot of blather. Let's try to keep on topic.

So, do you want to learn why we know that there was no flood?

 

[The Cadet]

To answer your first question. Because the desires of my heart aren't what they use to be. My desires were about me and only me. I was pretty selfish and self absorbed. Christ showed me that wasn't in the fathers will, by scripture.

But any firmly-held belief, regardless of how true it is, can change one's behavior. A Muslim criminal who believes that Allah will torture them for all eternity if they lie or steal will cease lying and stealing - regardless of whether or not Allah actually exists.

Who says it's a false cause? you?

No. I'm asking how you know it's a true cause.

Did you know that hatred is the same as murder 1 John 3:15

Did you know that this is a complete perversion of any reasonable morality?

 

[Loudmouth]

False, they are evidence, even of a lot of evolving. However you need to know what started out to be able to begin evolving! You need to know what creatures were merely different in the former state! You need to know what could not fossilize in that former nsture! Otherwise you are lost.

You are assuming a different state past.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Where is the evidence that any one has something called the "Holy Spirit of God"?

The same place as you will find evidence for the enlightenment.

Enlightenment: "a European intellectual movement of the late 17th and 18th centuries emphasizing reason and individualism rather than tradition. It was heavily influenced by 17th-century philosophers such as Descartes, Locke, and Newton, and its prominent exponents include Kant, Goethe, Voltaire, Rousseau, and Adam Smith." wiki

 

[Loudmouth]

The same place as you will find evidence for the enlightenment.

That's a cop out.

I take it you don't have this evidence? It is just a bare assertion?

 

[Edmond Smith]

Sorry, but your actions here speak louder than those words.

My actions are fine.

And you show your poor reading comprehension. Yes, the different versions are different interpretations. You version or interpretation is demonstrably wrong.

LOL...here we go again.
Your lack of knowledge of God, therefore you state your opinions and show no evidence that the version or my interpretation of the Gospel to be wrong.

<snip of rather ridiculous defensive blather>

Shows you have no concept of science in your own right. Shows arrogance and lack of wanting to learn the truth.

Then you should not be afraid to learn why we know that there was no flood.

Not afraid of something that can be shown wrong.
Just you haven't done it.



[quote}And again, you are conflating God with your interpretation of God. I have shown why your interpretation is wrong.[/quote]

Nope, you have stated your opinion on your belief in God and why you don't believe. You have stated the truth at least that there are people out there who worship false gods. And it's your opinion that my interpretation is wrong.
Where I have showed you that it's correct and true according to His Word.

Seriously, since we all know deep down inside that all creationists are wrong, why do they take a correction on their beliefs as an attack on their God?

Because your corrections are incorrect. They're your opinions, that's all. No evidence to the contrary.

And you are back to making lame threats. Sorry, but this is not the part of the forum for making lame threats at other members.

I'm not threatening, I'm warning you. I said, IF you die in your sins...that's not a threat...you will die someday, hopefully a long time from now. and when the time comes and you die, you will be judged, and if you have not repented of your sins, those sins will by why you are punished.
Quite simple really. Yeah, but it's the base of my subject. Your sins. Unless you've repented and turned away from them and place you trust in Christ since last night. Then I would stand corrected.

Nope, every year fewer and fewer people believe that book and the world actually gets better and better. To do real evil it takes religious belief usually. But again, this is not the place to discuss religion, let's try to stick to the facts.

You know, your right. Even the Bible tells us that there would be a great falling away near the end. It's sad, but it's to be expected.
Now, the world you live in may be getting better and better. But in the real world, because people have lost their first love, Wars and rumors of wars, Pestilence, Murder has risen, abortions, terrorism, lying, dishonoring parents, using God's name in vain, adultery...etc.etc. the list goes on and on. and the crazy thing is you spout that evolution is the way to believe...why? It doesn't want to change any of just mentioned. It thrives on chaos and the survival of the fittest, doesn't it?
World isn't better without the knowledge and fear of God. The world is worse without it.
This proves the Bible to be true and faithful, because all of what is happening right now, was written over 1500 years ago, by 40 men who were inspired by God and used as the instruments to put His word to paper.
This is a Christian Forum...it's based on the Christian Religion. And if you are going to try to demean Christianity or The Bible, and expect Christians not to defend....you then need to go to an Atheist forum...there you will get all your false answers, quips, and retorts. treated as if you really know something.

No, if it was rational you could demonstrate it. You can't. And of course science can explain how new traits are formed. Please don't use loaded terminology such as "information". That leads to equivocation errors and dishonest debating. And why do you think that science cannot explain how man evolved? The picture is fairly complete. You really need to keep up on science.

It has been demonstrated, billions of times. And I can demonstrate it, in one word....Christ.
strawman, never said science couldn't explain new traits.
I said it can't explain how the information gets in there to create those new traits. They understand what happens, they just don't know why it happens or what put that information there in the first place.
The reason why science cannot explain how man evolved? easy answer, they're looking at the wrong information. The Bible tells us exactly how we got here. God said Let there be man, and he created man. Then he said let there be a help mate for man, and God created woman. That isn't that hard.
Like they can't answer the question, where did the first mammal come from? (crickets sounding in the background)





[quote[biologos can't be refuted by you because they are correct. It is not just my opinion. When you make foolish and indefensible claims you say that the other person has "only an opinion". Actually I have tons of scientific evidence that supports me, something that you don't have at all.[/quote]

Yep, it's your opinion that it's correct. And your ton of scientific evidence,....is just speculative, unproven, guesses.

To believe in a young Earth you have to reject all of physics, biology, geology and probably a good amount of chemistry. The same applies to your belief in the flood. Again, you claim to like science, but your actions say that you don't. What sort of engineer are you? I may be able to show that you are wrong from an engineering viewpoint.

Wrong, Because the Creator of this Earth God, used all of those sciences in the creating of this World. How? Because He is the originator of those sciences.

I never said that it is the only way to gain knowledge. But it is perhaps the strongest tool.

No, you didn't say those words. But you sure imply it. I agree science is a strong tool to gain information, don't doubt that a bit. But it's not the only way, either.

Please don't conflate an observation by your wife with "testimony". The Bible is not valid for "testimony" since all of the "important parts" had no eyewitnesses.

LOL....wrong.
The Bible is a testimony. Of Christ.
The important parts, there are tons of eyewitnesses. Christ life, thousands of witnesses, His ministry, A few more thousand,
His death, again a few more, and His Resurrection. Thousands. He was here for 40 days after His resurrection, preaching the gospel and preparing the Apostles. There over 5000 witnesses to this...remember now. back in that day they only counted the men...there were women and children to...so well over double the amount witness these things.
and the wife anecdote was just an example.

That is because you don't have valid evidence for this topic. You have nothing. You do have quite a lot of blather. Let's try to keep on topic.

Again, plenty of evidence, you just don't accept it.

So, do you want to learn why we know that there was no flood?

Please, let me have your opinion on why there was no flood.

 

[ScottA]

You have shared, yes, but you have totally failed to show that what you shared is in any way related to reality.

And you have failed to show any ability to perceive an alternate reality that is eternal, although in addition to my witness, there have been countless testimonies to the fact down through all of recorded history. The difference is, by holding to your perception of reality, you have something to loose.

 

[joshua 1 9]

But any firmly-held belief, regardless of how true it is, can change one's behavior. A Muslim criminal who believes that Allah will torture them for all eternity if they lie or steal will cease lying and stealing - regardless of whether or not Allah actually exists.

Only if they lie or steal from a Muslim. They can lie, cheat or terrorize an "infidel" (non Muslim) and that is fine.

 

[joshua 1 9]

That's a cop out.

You see and you said I was not learning anything from you. It is about time you finally admit and fess up to the truth.

 

[ScottA]

you've never explained why or how you know that it's not just you that's been held in blindness?

I claim nothing, that's just how God works.