Jesuits

[LivingWordUnity]

That's how witch hunts start...

Would you say that CatholicCulture.Org is unfair to the website The Remnant Newspaper?

Here's their review of that website:

Description

This website is the home of the Remnant Newspaper and contains information about the publication, as well as articles and commentary. The editors claim that their newspaper upholds and defends the “infallible teachings and immutable traditions of the Catholic Church.” In order to defend these teachings, they cry out against the abuses within the Church’s hierarchy, liturgy, recent council, and clergy, saying, “Catholics cannot leave the Church, nor are they free to lambaste and deny the Pope at will for things like his ‘Altar Girl Permission’ or the ‘Assisi Ecumenical Affair’ or the convening of the Second Vatican Council.”

However, the Remnant’s articles prove the contrary. Not only have they defended and supported those guilty of schismatic acts such as SSPX founder Archbishop Lefebvre and other SSPX bishops, but they have continually rejected most of the teachings in Vatican II and entirely rejected the Novus Ordo Mass. Thus, though the Remnant does have many articles which defend the teachings of the Church, the value of these is compromised because of the publication's dissidence regarding these noted errors.

Review Ratings

First Evaluated: 05/31/2006; Last Updated: 10/25/2013

1. Fidelity:
   
   Danger!
2. Resources: Fair
3. Useability: Excellent

Strengths

• The Douay Catechism of 1649 Resources

Weaknesses

• Fidelity: The Remnant attacks the authority of Vatican II and rejects certain doctrinal teachings of the council. Example(s)
• Fidelity: The Renmant supports Archbishop Lefebvre and the leaders of the society of St. Pius X, who have been guilty of schismatic acts and persistent disobedience to the Pope. Example(s)
• Fidelity: The Novus Ordo Mass is completely rejected and denounced as a horror of the Church. Example(s)

(Source)​

 

[Colin]

A Jesuit, a Dominican, and a Franciscan were walking along an old road, debating the greatness of their orders. Suddenly, an apparition of the Holy Family appeared in front of them, with Jesus in a manger and Mary and Joseph praying over him. The Franciscan fell on his face, overcome with awe at the sight of God born in such poverty. The Dominican fell to his knees, adoring the beautiful reflection of the Trinity and the Holy Family. The Jesuit walked up to Joseph, put his arm around his shoulder, and said, “So, have you thought about where to send him to school?”

 

[S.ilvio]

Would you say that CatholicCulture.Org is unfair to the website The Remnant Newspaper?

Here's their review of that website:

Description

This website is the home of the Remnant Newspaper and contains information about the publication, as well as articles and commentary. The editors claim that their newspaper upholds and defends the “infallible teachings and immutable traditions of the Catholic Church.” In order to defend these teachings, they cry out against the abuses within the Church’s hierarchy, liturgy, recent council, and clergy, saying, “Catholics cannot leave the Church, nor are they free to lambaste and deny the Pope at will for things like his ‘Altar Girl Permission’ or the ‘Assisi Ecumenical Affair’ or the convening of the Second Vatican Council.”

However, the Remnant’s articles prove the contrary. Not only have they defended and supported those guilty of schismatic acts such as SSPX founder Archbishop Lefebvre and other SSPX bishops, but they have continually rejected most of the teachings in Vatican II and entirely rejected the Novus Ordo Mass. Thus, though the Remnant does have many articles which defend the teachings of the Church, the value of these is compromised because of the publication's dissidence regarding these noted errors.

Review Ratings

First Evaluated: 05/31/2006; Last Updated: 10/25/2013

1. Fidelity:
   
   Danger!
2. Resources: Fair
3. Useability: Excellent

Strengths

• The Douay Catechism of 1649 Resources

Weaknesses

• Fidelity: The Remnant attacks the authority of Vatican II and rejects certain doctrinal teachings of the council. Example(s)
• Fidelity: The Renmant supports Archbishop Lefebvre and the leaders of the society of St. Pius X, who have been guilty of schismatic acts and persistent disobedience to the Pope. Example(s)
• Fidelity: The Novus Ordo Mass is completely rejected and denounced as a horror of the Church. Example(s)

(Source)​

I read it the first time. Just as I have read continuous negative, in tone, posts about Pope Francis. Sometimes the negativity is overt and other times covert.

As someone very wise said to me very recently, there a trend in some American posters here, whereby their adherence to Capitalism and/or to the American Constitution seems to be on a par with their Faith.

So this results in Catholic voices who are in contravention to the tenets of economic conservatism are treated with suspicion or outright condemnation.

As for nit picking certain articles and then extrapulating them to rendering the Jesuit Order as being in some way dangerous or not to be trusted is simplistic, unfair and quite lazy analysis...

 

[Michie]

lol!

A Jesuit, a Dominican, and a Franciscan were walking along an old road, debating the greatness of their orders. Suddenly, an apparition of the Holy Family appeared in front of them, with Jesus in a manger and Mary and Joseph praying over him. The Franciscan fell on his face, overcome with awe at the sight of God born in such poverty. The Dominican fell to his knees, adoring the beautiful reflection of the Trinity and the Holy Family. The Jesuit walked up to Joseph, put his arm around his shoulder, and said, “So, have you thought about where to send him to school?”

 

[LivingWordUnity]

I read it the first time. Just as I have read continuous negative, in tone, posts about Pope Francis. Sometimes the negativity is overt and other times covert.

As someone very wise said to me very recently, there a trend in some American posters here, whereby their adherence to Capitalism and/or to the American Constitution seems to be on a par with their Faith.

So this results in Catholic voices who are in contravention to the tenets of economic conservatism are treated with suspicion or outright condemnation.

As for nit picking certain articles and then extrapulating them to rendering the Jesuit Order as being in some way dangerous or not to be trusted is simplistic, unfair and quite lazy analysis...

I don't see how that response answers my question. Would you say that CatholicCulture.Org's review is unfair to the website The Remnant Newspaper? What are your thoughts about what they said about it?

 

[S.ilvio]

I don't see how that response answers my question. Would you say that CatholicCulture.Org's review is unfair to the website The Remnant Newspaper? What are your thoughts about what they said about it?

You have the only answer you're going to get. You can reflect on it and maybe re-think your contributions or you can ignore it and pretend you got a victory in not getting the reply you want, thinking you out foxed me...

 

[Colin]

A Franciscan and a Dominican were debating whose order was the greater. After months of arguing, they decided to ask God for an answer when they died. Years later, they met in heaven and went to God’s throne to resolve their old disagreement. God seemed a bit puzzled about the question and told them he would reply in writing a few days later. After much deliberation, God sent the following letter:

My sons,

Please stop bickering about such trivial matters. Both orders are equally great and good in my eyes.

Sincerely,

God, SJ

 

[Rhamiel]

A Franciscan and a Dominican were debating whose order was the greater. After months of arguing, they decided to ask God for an answer when they died. Years later, they met in heaven and went to God’s throne to resolve their old disagreement. God seemed a bit puzzled about the question and told them he would reply in writing a few days later. After much deliberation, God sent the following letter:

My sons,

Please stop bickering about such trivial matters. Both orders are equally great and good in my eyes.

Sincerely,

God, SJ

ohhh good one
I got another one for you

What is similar about the Jesuit and Dominican Orders?
Well, they were both founded by Spaniards, St. Dominic for the Dominicans, and St. Ignatius of Loyola for the Jesuits.
They were also both founded to combat heresy: the Dominicans to fight the Albigensians, and the Jesuits to fight the Protestants.

What is different about the Jesuit and Dominican Orders?
Well, have you met any Albigensians lately?

 

[paul becke]

I suspect that this pope understand liberation theology very well. Perhaps, we might see if he rejects all their ideas, especially those involving economics and helping the poor.

I read in, I believe, the online periodical Vatican Insider - it might have been another organ - that the Vatican had never repudiated or condemned Liberation Theology - none of the popes. Reservations would presumably be another matter, but something quite different and understandable since it was a radical insight to what had been overlooked for the better part of two millennia. What the Church leadership must also, understandably, have been worried about, was the voluntary laicizations of some clergy, to take up political posts.

But again, worry is one thing... How far/how long can can loving, caring souls, watch a people being cruelly tortured, murdered and generally oppressed, without being prompted by a kind of Christian humanism, to take the position that, while grace builds upon nature, nature, life, is itself an irreducible minimum that may need to be physically protected by 'incarnate' means, as a matter of urgency.

I heard from a priest friend, that some young priests were traumatized by what they'd learnt in Guatemala, where according to our UK right-wing newspapers, Guatemalan Indian males were offered a choice by doubtless graduates of the School of the Americas of being castrated or burnt to death in ovens.

 

[Colin]

I read it the first time. Just as I have read continuous negative, in tone, posts about Pope Francis. Sometimes the negativity is overt and other times covert.

As someone very wise said to me very recently, there a trend in some American posters here, whereby their adherence to Capitalism and/or to the American Constitution seems to be on a par with their Faith.

What you are saying would corroborate some thoughts I have had about OBOB .

When I returned to OBOB after an absence I noted the lack of threads and posts about Pope Francis.

When there were threads about the words and actions of Pope Francis they gained little response .

Then over recent weeks there have appeared overt attacks on Pope Francis , attacks which have gone unchallenged by ones you would have thought would have come to his defence .

Back in 2010 when I first began to frequent OBOB it would have been unheard of for such posts to have been made about any popes . The posters would have been dealt with in no uncertain terms .

However Pope Francis seems to be fair game , and being a Jesuit himself , I wonder whether the negativity shown towards the Jesuits is a way of indirectly having a go at the Pope .

I have spoken of this undercurrent of opinion relating to Pope Francis more than once in the last few days . On reflection I think your analysis is accurate . I cannot but be concerned that some posters are putting their politics before their Catholicism . I have done some Googling about this and have come up with a plethora of material about some American Catholics' dislike of Pope Francis because what he says is at variance with their political and ecclesiastical views , and he disturbs them within their comfort zone .

I never thought I would have to say this on a Catholic forum but those who read it will know in their hearts whether it applies to them or not . The material is before there eyes , implicitly , but increasingly explicitly . Hopefully all this can change .

 

[paul becke]

What you are saying would corroborate some thoughts I have had about OBOB .

When I returned to OBOB after an absence I noted the lack of threads and posts about Pope Francis.

When there were threads about the words and actions of Pope Francis they gained little response .

Then over recent weeks there have appeared overt attacks on Pope Francis , attacks which have gone unchallenged by ones you would have thought would have come to his defence .

Back in 2010 when I first began to frequent OBOB it would have been unheard of for such posts to have been made about any popes . The posters would have been dealt with in no uncertain terms .

However Pope Francis seems to be fair game , and being a Jesuit himself , I wonder whether the negativity shown towards the Jesuits is a way of indirectly having a go at the Pope .

I have spoken of this undercurrent of opinion relating to Pope Francis more than once in the last few days . On reflection I think your analysis is accurate . I cannot but be concerned that some posters are putting their politics before their Catholicism . I have done some Googling about this and have come up with a plethora of material about some American Catholics' dislike of Pope Francis because what he says is at variance with their political and ecclesiastical views , and he disturbs them within their comfort zone .

I never thought I would have to say this on a Catholic forum but those who read it will know in their hearts whether it applies to them or not . The material is before there eyes , implicitly , but increasingly explicitly . Hopefully all this can change .

Some fifty years ago, Colin, I was told by an Irish, Trappist monk in NZ, that the Irish church had a reputation for being very backward. However, while I've since realised what he was talking about - despite my great love of the Irish and coming across some great Irish priests, at least one, outstanding - I doubt if those he was talking about were ever as backward, generally, as American Catholics are. For 'traditionalists', read 'fundamentalists in terms of the traditions of men'. I know the church as a whole suffers from a siege mentality and a clericalist, triumphalist 'hangover', which Francis has so astutely identified and laid out.

I came across this, yesterday, Colin. As far as I know, it must have occurred a while ago, since I believe they mention it took place in New York. I tend to scan, and must go back and read it more carefully. Look at the Comments.

https://churchpop.com/2014/08/10/breaking-pope-excommunicates-all-of-western-civilization-all-of-it/

That link was the only one I found to any article on the subject, when I Google it, although it is a major, major criticism. I don't believe such a broad, blanket excommunication is formally possible; and in any case, he clearly seems to be inveighing against our materialistic, consumerist mindset, the way we are tuned into it, almost unwittingly, amorally. The Mainstream media 'noise-machine' always drowns out significant truths by simple omission from its own wall-to-wall, round-the-clock 'infotainment', masquerading as news and current affairs.

 

[S.ilvio]

What you are saying would corroborate some thoughts I have had about OBOB .

When I returned to OBOB after an absence I noted the lack of threads and posts about Pope Francis.

When there were threads about the words and actions of Pope Francis they gained little response .

Then over recent weeks there have appeared overt attacks on Pope Francis , attacks which have gone unchallenged by ones you would have thought would have come to his defence .

Back in 2010 when I first began to frequent OBOB it would have been unheard of for such posts to have been made about any popes . The posters would have been dealt with in no uncertain terms .

However Pope Francis seems to be fair game , and being a Jesuit himself , I wonder whether the negativity shown towards the Jesuits is a way of indirectly having a go at the Pope .

I have spoken of this undercurrent of opinion relating to Pope Francis more than once in the last few days . On reflection I think your analysis is accurate . I cannot but be concerned that some posters are putting their politics before their Catholicism . I have done some Googling about this and have come up with a plethora of material about some American Catholics' dislike of Pope Francis because what he says is at variance with their political and ecclesiastical views , and he disturbs them within their comfort zone .

I never thought I would have to say this on a Catholic forum but those who read it will know in their hearts whether it applies to them or not . The material is before there eyes , implicitly , but increasingly explicitly . Hopefully all this can change .

I've been in and around OBOB for a decade now in a few different guises.

One constant has been the mental reservation that comes through when Catholicism's dedication to social Justice is brought up.

The cohort of fiscal conservatives run for the exit, put their fingers in their ears and when the discussion ends, they come back in, all Catholic'd up again...

 

[paul becke]

I've been in and around OBOB for a decade now in a few different guises.

One constant has been the mental reservation that comes through when Catholicism's dedication to social Justice is brought up.

The cohort of fiscal conservatives run for the exit, put their fingers in their ears and when the discussion ends, they come back in, all Catholic's up again...

If it were not so tragic, it would be comical, wouldn't it, S.ilvio ?

 

[Rhamiel]

here is an article about how the editor of America Magazine was forced to resigne
not forced by Amercians, but forced by the Vatican in 2005
because of this, and because of the state of Catholic High Schools in the USA (many of which are run by or set up by Jesuits), is why many people view the Jesuits in a less then favorable light

I thought this would be a good thread to talk about the Jesuits
but at the mere hint of criticism we are getting accused of having a "witch hunt"


http://www.nationalcatholicreporter.org/update/bn050605.htm

 

[Michie]

I don't remember that! Thanks for posting.

here is an article about how the editor of America Magazine was forced to resigne
not forced by Amercians, but forced by the Vatican in 2005
because of this, and because of the state of Catholic High Schools in the USA (many of which are run by or set up by Jesuits), is why many people view the Jesuits in a less then favorable light

I thought this would be a good thread to talk about the Jesuits
but at the mere hint of criticism we are getting accused of having a "witch hunt"


http://www.nationalcatholicreporter.org/update/bn050605.htm

 

[Rhamiel]

How can you choose that confederate flag for your icon, when you must know it has nightmarish connotations for your African American brothers and sisters, 'other Christs. Do you even see them as 'other Christs', like yourself ? This has a bearing on the topic.

you are in the UK
so it is understandable that you might not understand that the Confederate Flag issue kind of a case of manufactured outrage
I live in Ohio, a state that was for the Union in the Civil War, but when I was in high school I knew kids who wore Confederate Flag t-shirts and belt buckles
and guess what, some of these kids were black
it is not really seen as a "nightmarish" thing by most Americans

in reality, far more people of color have been brutalized by people waving American flags, or Union Jacks, then by people with Confederate Flags
but this is kind of off topic

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

Why must people fake unwavering support or go against conscience lest they be called offensive?

What makes you think you can be the arbiter of sincerity?

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

I think questioning is healthy as long as it is respectful. It is how a lot of us learn.

I would like to hear as mush as I can about history. You can't really understand how something came into being unless you understand what lead it to be so.

 

[Michie]

Exactly. Rhamiel's link for instance. I did not know that but I joined the RCC in 2004 so I guess that was not on my radar then.

I would like to hear as mush as I can about history. You can't really understand how something came into being unless you understand what lead it to be so.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Never mind