Evolution Promotes Brutality

[46AND2]

Oi! Love the Kookaburra pic.

 

[Leevo]

Well I certainly don't think He created us to die, much less be killed.

But to answer your question, I would say physical death.

I think the video linked in my first post expresses my views on the subject pretty well, I think spiritual death.

 

[Heissonear]

You criticize evolution for promoting brutality, Heissonear. However, the same thing can be said about promoting Christianity, as it has been one of the most brutal of all religions. No doubt about that. In fact, our founding fathers, especially Jefferson, Adams, and Madison, had grave doubts how appropriate Christianity really is in a free society. They were quite outspoken on that fact that all it had promotes was ignorance, tyranny, oppression, fear, bloodshed, etc. That, for example, Hitler. He said more than once that he was only doing the Lords' work. And that's no surprise. Martin Luther wrote a work entitled "The Jews and Their Lies," ion which he recommended a policy almost identical to what Hitler carried out. Remember, people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Remember the application is on Evolution. It is a tenet, Sir. What you present is from the Fall of man, a direct result of sin. For Evolution, viciousness is a cornerstone, an every day in every Earthly environment product.

 

[SkyWriting]

Of course they don't, because natural in this case means naturalistic, no intelligence and skills, just random data corruption and then see who will survive and procreate.

On the other hand, everything man does could be considered "Natural."
If what we do is not natural, then God must be interfering with what
men would do if we were animals. We must be part God.

 

[Hoghead1]

No, Heissonear, you have missed the point. You have criticized evolution for being too brutal. You want rid of it, for that reason. OK, then by your own logic, why not be rid of Christianity? It, too, can be something very brutal. However, I don't think we should finger others and charge them with being too brutal until we straighten out our own house and realize the messes we have created.

 

[AHH who-stole-my-name]

unnecessary comment.

 

[tiglathpileser]

Since when? Do you have a single reference for this claim?

"Survival of the fittest" is a phrase that originated from an evolutionary theory as a way of describing the mechanism of natural selection. The biological understood as "Survival of the form that will leave the most copies of itself in successive generations."

Herbert Spencer first used the phrase – after reading Charles Darwin's On the Origin of Species – in his Principles of Biology (1864), in which he drew parallels between his own economic theories and Darwin's biological ones, writing, "This survival of the fittest, which I have here sought to express in mechanical terms, is that which Mr. Darwin has called 'natural selection', or the preservation of favoured races in the struggle for life."[1]Wikipedia

The actual term - the survival of the fittest - however, was actually fully attributed by Darwin himself to another source:-

"I have called this principle, by which each slight variation, if useful, is preserved, by the term Natural Selection, in order to mark its relation to man's power of selection. But the expression often used by Mr. Herbert Spencer of the Survival of the Fittest is more accurate, and is sometimes equally convenient."

Darwin was so taken with Spencer's catchy phrase that he did, in fact, use it, as just quoted, in the introduction to chapter four, about " Natural Selection, or the Survival of the Fittest ", of a later (1869) fifth edition of his "The Origin of Species".

 

[quatona]

There are many true Christians who have accepted that life on Earth evolved over millions of years.

In particular, lifeforms have been around for over 200 million years which have continuously lived by biting and devouring other lifeforms.

Has God allowed brutality to be the means for many lifeforms to exist for such a long period of time?

Either that, or God doesn´t exist.
Also, I do not really see the difference (in regards to the question at hand) between e.g. carnivores having evolved and carnivores being created as they are.

 

[Aelred of Rievaulx]

Either that, or God doesn´t exist.
Also, I do not really see the difference (in regards to the question at hand) between e.g. carnivores having evolved and carnivores being created as they are.

This is a good point with regards to Creationism. Not one I make since I don't give them the time of day and think the very notion of Creationism is a waste of space/time/effort.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Is God allowing such brutality today?

I had a preacher that use to say: God is not going to take responsibility for the mess that man and the devil has made out of this world. Still God's rock solid promise to us is that He will cause all things to work out for the best. He does not allow anything to happen that He can not cause good to come out of it. He works all things together for good.

 

[SepiaAndDust]

I had a preacher that use to say: God is not going to take responsibility for the mess that man and the devil has made out of this world. Still God's rock solid promise to us is that He will cause all things to work out for the best. He does not allow anything to happen that He can not cause good to come out of it. He works all things together for good.

I heard about a seven-year-old boy who burned to death the other day.

Another seven-year-old boy was mauled to death by a dog was just in my news feed.

The old lie that everything works our for the good is just another lie.

 

[Hoghead1]

The way I see it, Cute Tink, is that God always strives to get breathy our of the tragedy of life. Whatever happens, no matter how bad, God allays presents creative possibilities for us to gain such beauty as we can from the situation. Whether we do or no is up to us, however. God lures us; God does not coerce us into doing anything. God cannot guarantee the future and neither can we. God is the great risk taker and w should follow suit.

 

[DogmaHunter]

But let's look at a major aspect of Hiway 61. Savage killing is the principle factor we want to examine. Time is an element.

Can you define "savage" for me?

So savage killing would be an integral part in God using Evolution as a means of bringing higher forms of life on Earth. Is this correct?

No. There are no long-term plans, or "plans" of any kind for that matter, in evolution.
It always is about the current generation in existence and its struggle for survival.

Humans, or indeed any other species, weren't "meant" or "planned" to exist.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Survival of the fittest is displayed in brutal killing.

"survival of the fittest" is also about animal A being able to reach just little bit higher when eating from a certain plant.

You seem to be only focussing on viscious predators that depend on hunting and/or ambushing other animals. As if natural selection only applies to them...

You do realise that there are herbivores as well, right?

An intregal part of Evolution is brutal killing. Is this correct?

No.
And integral part of life is to feed.

Herbivores don't need to do any killing.
Even certain carnivores don't need to do any killing. Like for example scavangers, who prey on animals that are already dead.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Well, yes he has and does. But death entered the world through Adam.

So, before that point, Adam did not eat organic food? Animals didn't eat organic food?
What did they eat, then?

We have only ourselves to blame.

No. I have nothing to do with a dude that lived 6000 years ago (regardless of the dude being a myth, off course... Kinda bending over backwards here)

 

[myarogancewasblottedout]

So, before that point, Adam did not eat organic food? Animals didn't eat organic food?
What did they eat, then?



No. I have nothing to do with a dude that lived 6000 years ago (regardless of the dude being a myth, off course... Kinda bending over backwards here)

you seem confused about adam and eve.
Genesis 1:10
get out your world map.
find Psalms 18:9 = Adam.
find the top of the two lips = Eve. ( Ezekiel 21:9 )



our first ancestor is Eternal Father Noah, the resurrected common ancestor of us all.

 

[DogmaHunter]

I've actually wondered what affect our intellect has on natural selection. And there is more than just the things you mention. The sheer size of the human population, the near complete lack of population isolation, etc.

That would, perhaps, be a better question for, say, sfs.

I certainly don't think that things which fight natural selection keep us from evolving, however.

In a way, one could say that we are "messing around" with natural selection, by removing the "natural" part through medicine and other technologies. It certainly is undeniably true that today, people are having children that only a few decades ago - let alone centuries ago - would never have survived past the age of 5.
We keep people alive by "artificial" means. We make people reproduce through "artificial" means as well... Couples that can't seem to get pregnant in the "natural" way, can opt for things like IVF these days.

Perhaps in the future, we might even be able to grow a new human in some kind of artificial uterus.

It's rather easy to make a case in this fashion that we are "messing around" with natural selection.

However......

I'ld say that we are natural beings. Everything we do is, by extension, also natural. Keeping people alive that would die without our help, is part of social dynamics and in essence, not different from elephants protecting their young or fellow group members from predators.

It's just part of our evolutionary path.

 

[DogmaHunter]

you seem confused about adam and eve.
Genesis 1:10
get out your world map.
find Psalms 18:9 = Adam.
find the top of the two lips = Eve. ( Ezekiel 21:9 )



our first ancestor is Eternal Father Noah, the resurrected common ancestor of us all.

Your religious beliefs have no impact on reality.

No, genetics demonstrate that human ancestry is not traceable to a single individual.

 

[myarogancewasblottedout]

No, genetics demonstrate that human ancestry is not traceable to a single individual.

genetics demonstrate this? is this parasitic mitochondrial DNA?
consider the equation Sigma{2^g
where after 1 generation you have 2 ancestors.
where after 2 generations you have 6 ancestors.
after 20 generations you have 2097150 ancestors.
after 30 generations you have 2147483646 ancestors.
30 generations ago( time-wise) the world needed a maximum of 1073741824 people to produce you.

there are two ways we can look at this. either that the world didn't have this many people at that time.
or that out of the 7000000000 people alive now, each one needing 1073741824 ancestors, it is likely that one of them is common amongst all of them.

Jesus is light ( John 8:12 Praise to Christ the word ), light was made for the first dimension of magnitudes. you can't have higher dimensional planes of existence ( reality) without the first dimension of light.

 

[DogmaHunter]

genetics demonstrate this? is this parasitic mitochondrial DNA?

Genetics in general. We are not traceable to a single individual or couple.

There's a so-called "mitochondrial eve" and a "y-chromosome adam", but these lived tens of thousands of years apart from eachother and should not be confused with a "single" common ancestor for all humans.

consider the equation Sigma{2^g
where after 1 generation you have 2 ancestors.
where after 2 generations you have 6 ancestors.
after 20 generations you have 2097150 ancestors.
after 30 generations you have 2147483646 ancestors.
30 generations ago( time-wise) the world needed a maximum of 1073741824 people to produce you.

What the heck are you talking about....?

there are two ways we can look at this. either that the world didn't have this many people at that time.
or that out of the 7000000000 people alive now, each one needing 1073741824 ancestors, it is likely that one of them is common amongst all of them.

There is a third possibility... Being that you are talking nonsense and that biology simply doesn't work like that.

Jesus is light ( John 8:12 Praise to Christ the word ), light was made for the first dimension of magnitudes. you can't have higher dimensional planes of existence ( reality) without the first dimension of light.

You're going to have to make a lot more sense then that.