Question

[Corpus Aristotelicum]

I'm interested to hear if any non-believers have seriously considered believing in God based on an argument or reason they heard from someone else, either on these forums or elsewhere.

I would think that those of you who have been on these forums for an extended period of time would have come across some argument or reason that has brought you close to believing in God, but maybe the opposite is true, maybe all the arguments just reaffirm your non-belief.

Do share if you want, thanks!

I find that often times people who identify themselves as Non-Theist focus on a specific kind of Theism, that being the one being offered by the Abrahamic viewpoint. This 'Brand' of Theism, if you will, is what many focus on and attempt to discredit. That's not to say they do not investigate competing beliefs, but often times I see ancient religions and mythology pulled in as a tool to discredit the specific 'Brand' of Theism.

This is just a general observation. There are also many Non-Theists that have no concern for debating or arguing the topic.

So to answer your question, many have and do consider the topic while many others do not.

You would hope if they saw a compelling argument then they would change their beliefs, but this is a gross over simplification of how humans make decisions on their beliefs. Humans in general, not Atheists specifically, have a tendency to defend whatever belief system they have already accepted, whether by evidence or not. What this means is no matter how convincingly you can show their beliefs are false, the odds that you will change their belief system are small. At best you can expect them to Evolve their belief system to fit. That is unless of course the individual has no belief. Those who have no belief or already hold a similar belief are more likely to shift positions. Holding no belief means having no loyalty to a prior belief. No shame in being wrong. Having a similar belief one might feel as though the beliefs are really one in the same, even if they are not.

 

[ecco]

You would hope if they saw a compelling argument then they would change their beliefs, but this is a gross over simplification of how humans make decisions on their beliefs. Humans in general, not Atheists specifically, have a tendency to defend whatever belief system they have already accepted, whether by evidence or not. What this means is no matter how convincingly you can show their beliefs are false, the odds that you will change their belief system are small.

Everything you have stated above applies to Christians more so than it does to atheists.

Science makes compelling arguments that the earth is not 6000-10,000 years old. These arguments are supported by multiple branches of science. Yet some people cling to the belief of a young age for the earth

I have never seen or heard a compelling argument against atheism. If you have one, I'd like to hear it.

At best you can expect them to Evolve their belief system to fit. That is unless of course the individual has no belief. Those who have no belief or already hold a similar belief are more likely to shift positions. Holding no belief means having no loyalty to a prior belief. No shame in being wrong. Having a similar belief one might feel as though the beliefs are really one in the same, even if they are not.

There are many Christians who have evolved their belief systems to the point where they accept a form of evolution (no pun intended). They do this by accepting that some parts of scripture are allegorical. This should lead to questions and to the logical conclusion that perhaps all of the writings are allegorical. But it doesn't.

 

[ldonjohn]

You completely ignored the fact:

Every religious person believes: "my god is the real god, your god is a false god"; "my ways to worship are the right ways to worship, your ways to worship are the wrong ways to worship"; "my beliefs are based on truth, your beliefs are based lies and misunderstandings".​

I wasn't trying to scare you. I was just pointing out your arrogance.



Your own writings show your arrogance.



I have not pretended to be looking for the truth of god. I am well aware of the truths of gods.



Nothing you have said or quoted from your bible offended me.


Just ignore my posts. Or just state you don't want me to respond to your posts. But when you post a wall of comments addressed to me, I take that as an invitation to discuss.

ecco,

Again, my first post was not addressed to you. It was a reply to Chriliman's original post, in which I answered his question regarding becoming a believer in Christianity, but you responded to that post where you explained, point by point, your reasons for believing that my faith is not based on Truth, but instead, according to your reasoning, is just the result of the influences of my upbringing. You pretend to have a better understanding of my Christian faith that I have.

In your reply, you attacked my confidence in Christianity, by calling it & me “arrogant.” You don't & can't understand the spiritual truths of God's Word so you feel the need to call Christians names like “arrogant, prideful, etc.” Also, you resort to quoting scriptures out of context, that you don't understand, thinking you are pointing out an error or a contradiction of scriptures, or you believe you are showing us something we missed in scripture that proves Christianity to be false. Personally, I don't understand all of scripture. There is more that I do not understand than that which I do understand, but we are not required to understand it all.

As you were explaining to me your opinion of my “faith” you were judging my faith from your perspective of being in darkness. Standing in darkness trying to see into the light is impossible to do. I was in that same condition before I became a Christian and I understand where you are. You cannot understand my confidence in God's Word because of your spiritual blindness, therefore you see it as arrogance. God sees my confidence in His Word as faith; faith that God gave me even as I was in darkness.

Ephesians 2:8-9; “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:Not of works, lest any man should boast.” (KJV)

The difference between you and me is that, although I was in darkness trying to look into the light, I was doing that in earnest. IOW, God saw that I was truly seeking the truth about Him, and that I was willing to accept the truth I found whatever it might have been. I do not say that in arrogance; it is the truth about how unbelievers become believers. When an unbeliever earnestly seeks God, He, God, removes the blindness and allows the unbeliever to see the light of the truth about Him. He will do that for anyone who will obey Jer. 29:11-13.

You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart," (Jer. 29:11-13 NIV).

Yes, I know you call that “circular reasoning.” And, you are right, it is circular reasoning. The atheists' “circular reasoning” begins without God and ends without God, but, if and when the Spirit of God, the Holy Spirit, is allowed to be the guiding influence of “circular reasoning” that reasoning will lead to the Truth of God.

1Cor. 2:14, “ But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” (KJV)

I know that you are not looking for God; I am not saying that you are. The only reason I respond to your post is that I believe there are readers who come to these forums and read posts without responding to them. I offer this response for the benefit of those who might actually be seeking answers about God and the Bible.

I know you will take this post apart and express, point by point, your opinions of it all. That's OK; discuss it if you must.

I do have a question for you. Are you afraid to know the truth about God?

Don

 

[ecco]

Again, my first post was not addressed to you. It was a reply to Chriliman's original post, in which I answered his question regarding becoming a believer in Christianity, but you responded to that post where you explained, point by point, your reasons for believing that my faith is not based on Truth, but instead, according to your reasoning, is just the result of the influences of my upbringing. You pretend to have a better understanding of my Christian faith that I have.

First off, you, not I, were the one making disparaging comments about Christians:

ldonjohn
Not everyone who claims to be a Christian is one. Some people are CINO, Christians in Name Only.​

Furthermore, I did not say your faith was not based on Truth. I pointed out that people of all faiths believe their faith is based on Truth:

ecco:
You do realize that people of all denominations of Christianity believe exactly the same way you do.
You do realize that people of all religions believe exactly the same way you do.
Every religious person believes: "my god is the real god, your god is a false god"; "my ways to worship are the right ways to worship, your ways to worship are the wrong ways to worship"; "my beliefs are based on truth, your beliefs are based lies and misunderstandings".​

In your reply, you attacked my confidence in Christianity, by calling it & me “arrogant.” You don't & can't understand the spiritual truths of God's Word so you feel the need to call Christians names like “arrogant, prideful, etc.”

I did not "call Christians names like “arrogant, prideful, etc.”". I called you arrogant in response to your comments like:

ldonjohn:
A real Christian can never become a non-Christian...
-and-
Not everyone who claims to be a Christian is one. Some people are CINO, Christians in Name Only.​

Anyone who claims they can decide who or what defines a "Real Christian" is arrogant.

Also, you resort to quoting scriptures out of context, that you don't understand, thinking you are pointing out an error or a contradiction of scriptures,...

Please show where I quoted scripture out of context.

As you were explaining to me your opinion of my “faith” you were judging my faith from your perspective of being in darkness. Standing in darkness trying to see into the light is impossible to do. I was in that same condition before I became a Christian and I understand where you are. You cannot understand my confidence in God's Word because of your spiritual blindness, therefore you see it as arrogance. God sees my confidence in His Word as faith; faith that God gave me even as I was in darkness.

Again, demonstrating your arrogance.

The difference between you and me is that, although I was in darkness trying to look into the light, I was doing that in earnest.

You just said it was impossible to do. Now you say you did it.

Yes, I know you call that “circular reasoning.” And, you are right, it is circular reasoning. The atheists' “circular reasoning” begins without God and ends without God, but, if and when the Spirit of God, the Holy Spirit, is allowed to be the guiding influence of “circular reasoning” that reasoning will lead to the Truth of God.

And here you completely ignore the fact that most atheists were at one time believers. Many born and raised in the homes of Pastors, Ministers, Rabbis and Priests.

I know that you are not looking for God; I am not saying that you are. The only reason I respond to your post is that I believe there are readers who come to these forums and read posts without responding to them. I offer this response for the benefit of those who might actually be seeking answers about God and the Bible.

OK. However, I think that comments like "Not everyone who claims to be a Christian is one." may be insulting to some Christians.

I know you will take this post apart and express, point by point, your opinions of it all. That's OK; discuss it if you must.

When you intentionally misrepresent what I have said, yes I will.

I do have a question for you. Are you afraid to know the truth about God?

The truth about which god? Your Christian god. The god that Christians who, as you put it, are "CINO, Christians in Name Only" worship? The gods of the Hindus? The god of the Jews?

As I have previously stated, all religious people believe their god is the Real True God.

 

[drr1531]

The simple answer is no. I've never heard and argument proposed by a Christian that could make me believe in God. But please read on.

I've been a student of science my entire life. At an early age I discovered my love for science and my apparent gift of a logical mind. Also in my pre-teen years I turned away from the church, mainly due to the hypocrisy that I saw among people who claimed to be Christians. However, having an inquisitive mind I was agnostic rather than atheist. After all, science doesn't have all of the answers and for good science all possibilities have to be considered. For that reason no one who is truly open minded or a good scientist can be an atheist. But as I grew older and became more learned in science, all of the logical arguments that I entertained validated my denial of deity/a creator. And most of all, my logical mind could not entertain the necessary leap of faith to accept the existence of God.

As I advanced in age I became cognitively aware of what "wisdom" actually is. It is simply the suppression of ego(aka pride) and acknowledgement of one's own ignorance. And with pride out of the way (or at least suppressed) one can truly pursue logical inquiry. And ,interestingly, in the ongoing pursuit of logic I began to recognize how many holes there are in the foundational science on which I've based my entire life/belief system. I was shocked to realize/acknowledge how many leaps of faith I'd taken through the years to accept scientific "truths".

With the realization of all of the holes in the scientific record and witnessing the lives of Christian friends/aquaintances, I re-opened my own internal God debate. I pursued it vigorously and logically, lining up the arguments on both sides. And to make the rest of this long story as short as possible, ironically logic and ultimately common sense led me to accept Christ for what he is and therefore to the conclusion that God does in fact exist.

So to reiterate my direct answer, no. As a non-believer, I never heard an argument that swayed me towards believing in God. After all, the very fact that it's called an argument suggests futility. But witnessing people living gospel centered lives opened my eyes to the possibility of something greater. Logic did the rest.

"You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on a stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your father in heaven." Matthew 5:14

 

[ldonjohn]

"ecco, post: 69131980, member: 380376"]First off, you, not I, were the one making disparaging comments about Christians:

ldonjohn
Not everyone who claims to be a Christian is one. Some people are CINO, Christians in Name Only.​

This is what the bible says about the matter. Matthew 7:21-23:

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

The answer to the question in v. 21 is: John 6:28' “Then they said unto him, What shall we do that we work the works of God?” John 6:29, “Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that you believe on him whom he hath sent.

Below is another scripture that suggests that not everyone who claims to be a Christian is one.

2 Cor 13:5, “Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?”
​

ecco:

Furthermore, I did not say your faith was not based on Truth. I pointed out that people of all faiths believe their faith is based on Truth:​

ecco:
You do realize that people of all denominations of Christianity believe exactly the same way you do.
You do realize that people of all religions believe exactly the same way you do.
Every religious person believes: "my god is the real god, your god is a false god"; "my ways to worship are the right ways to worship, your ways to worship are the wrong ways to worship"; "my beliefs are based on truth, your beliefs are based lies and misunderstandings".​

Yes you did, and I quote:​

ecco:

The things that are learned from a very early age stay with us. One cannot forget or ignore these things any more than one can unlearn or forget the language(s) they were raised in.

The "wanting to believe" stems from your early years of being told that Jesus/God is real. If you had been raised in India, your early years would have been filled with beliefs in Brahma.

​

ecco:

I did not "call Christians names like “arrogant, prideful, etc.”". I called you arrogant in response to your comments like:

ldonjohn:
A real Christian can never become a non-Christian...
-and-
Not everyone who claims to be a Christian is one. Some people are CINO, Christians in Name Only.​

Anyone who claims they can decide who or what defines a "Real Christian" is arrogant.

The bible explain this in Matthew 7:21-23 and 2 Cor 13:5. It is God's Word, not mine.

ecco:
Please show where I quoted scripture out of context.
Again, demonstrating your arrogance.

ecco:
I am an atheist, but I have no problem with you using scripture for any reason you want. Just don't get offended when I do.

1. 
   4. “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work
   Do you ever do any work on the Sabbath? Or, maybe, I just don't understand what that Commandment really means.

1. 
   
   Yes, it is obvious you don't understand what that commandment means. God says that in His Word in 1 Cor. 2:14, “But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him, neither can he know them because they are spiritually discerned.” God says that, I'm just pointing it out to you. Are saying God is arrogant? Oh, I forgot, you don't believe the God of the Bible exists. The teaching of the Sabbath is found in the Old Testament, and was given to Israel when they were in Palestine. It was a sign between God and Israel, a sign that God had separated Israel or set them apart as His chosen people. It was a sign that was Holy only to Israel. Sabbath means to “cease” from labor or to rest. After God finished creation He rested on the 7th day. That was the first Sabbath. The Sabbath was part of the commandments or the Law to Israel. But, the commandments ended when Christ was crucified for the sins of the world. After Christ's crucifixion, those who “believe” on Him are under Grace, not under Law.

In the Book of Galatians some were telling the new believers that even though they were under Grace that they still had to keep the Law, but Galatians 3:10, says: "For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, 'Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law,” Here Paul is telling them that keeping the Law only places them back under the curse of works, but Christ ended the Law, works, when He was crucified, therefore they are now under Grace, not under Law, and works ended. IOW, God's Word is saying that when Christ was crucified for our sins, our sin debt was paid in full to God, and although we don't deserve to be forgiven He made a way for that to happen. That's God's Grace; it is a gift, all we have to do is accept that gift. If we had to work for it then we could boast that we earned God's forgiveness, therefore it would not be a gift. The following scripture is saying that Christians are not to be judged by their actions.

Colossians 2:16: "Therefore let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or Sabbaths."

Christians are under Grace, and our Sabbath is Christ, because we cease from our works attempting to please God and simply rest in the message of the cross. God even gives us faith in that message, in the finished work of Christ on the cross, when we seek Him and allow Him to work in us to change us. That is true for anyone

ecco:
Again, demonstrating your arrogance.

you were referring to this statement:
ldonjohn said: ↑
As you were explaining to me your opinion of my “faith” you were judging my faith from your perspective of being in darkness. Standing in darkness trying to see into the light is impossible to do. I was in that same condition before I became a Christian and I understand where you are. You cannot understand my confidence in God's Word because of your spiritual blindness, therefore you see it as arrogance. God sees my confidence in His Word as faith; faith that God gave me even as I was in darkness.

and to this:

The difference between you and me is that, although I was in darkness trying to look into the light, I was doing that in earnest.

You just said it was impossible to do. Now you say you did it.

Again, you missed the most important factor of the Christian belief which I clearly explained in my post, and that is the work of the Holy Spirit in bringing anyone to the truth about becoming a Christian. That is the difference here. Your pride will not allow you to submit yourself to the influence of the Holy Spirit.

ecco:
And here you completely ignore the fact that most atheists were at one time believers. Many born and raised in the homes of Pastors, Ministers, Rabbis and Priests.

Really!
Being born into a Christian home doesn't make one a Christian. If you are suggesting that an atheist was once a Christian because he was not an atheist at the time he claimed to be a Christian or claimed he believed in God, well the bible has an answer for that claim too. James 2:19, “Thou believest in God there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.” IOW, the devil & devils believe in and they know both God and Jesus, but they will never be Christians. The bible is clear about that matter.

There is more to becoming a Christian than just believing that there is a God or believing in God. Furthermore, believing in Jesus is more than just believing He exists. The truth about becoming a real Christian is found in the bible, but finding that truth is impossible without the power & influence of the Holy Spirit. I know this from my own experience, but whenever I speak of my experience in finding that truth you accuse me of being arrogant & prideful. The opposite is true, but your pride in yourself as your own god has blinded you to the truth.

ecco:
OK. However, I think that comments like "Not everyone who claims to be a Christian is one." may be insulting to some Christians.

Already covered that!

ecco:
When you intentionally misrepresent what I have said, yes I will.

Another false accusation.,

ecco:

The truth about which god? Your Christian god. The god that Christians who, as you put it, are "CINO, Christians in Name Only" worship? The gods of the Hindus? The god of the Jews?

As I have previously stated, all religious people believe their god is the Real True God.

First you call me names now you lie! You know that the quote above is NOT accurate. You purposely omit words to change the original meaning. You are showing your true self. We both know which God I am talking about.

Doesn't matter what you have previously stated. What matters is what God says.

I know you are not looking for God, because of your pride in yourself you are your own god.

 

[ecco]

ecco:

Furthermore, I did not say your faith was not based on Truth. I pointed out that people of all faiths believe their faith is based on Truth:​

Yes you did, and I quote:

And then you quote nothing. You also continue to choose to ignore:

ecco:

You do realize that people of all denominations of Christianity believe exactly the same way you do.
You do realize that people of all religions believe exactly the same way you do.
Every religious person believes: "my god is the real god, your god is a false god"; "my ways to worship are the right ways to worship, your ways to worship are the wrong ways to worship"; "my beliefs are based on truth, your beliefs are based lies and misunderstandings".​

Again, I did not say your faith was not based on Truth. I pointed out that people of all faiths believe their faith is based on Truth. That is something that is absolute fact.

Galatians 3:10 "For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse"

17“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.18For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.19Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

The first is a quote from a man (Paul), the second is attributed directly to Jesus. And yet, with some tortured logic...

https://www.gci.org/bible/matthew517 (Emphasis mine)

Based on the argument above, we would have to take Jesus’ words as enjoining every single commandment and regulation in the Law of Moses on Christians! The reason is because Jesus said that "not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen" from the entire body of the Jewish Holy Scriptures would disappear until "everything is accomplished."

To ask again: Did Jesus mean Christians had to keep all the regulations of the Law of Moses, including the "holy time" regulations of the Sabbath, or strict tithing, or the food laws? Consider what that line of reasoning would demand.

Christians would be obligated to keep all the sacrificial, ceremonial and civil laws described in the Law of Moses. They would have to keep every single law mentioned in Genesis through Deuteronomy — and the rest of the Old Testament. The Jews calculated that there were 613 laws in their Holy Scriptures. Christians, then, based on the idea that Jesus was telling his disciples to keep the regulations of the Law and the Prophets, would have to keep all 613 laws. No wonder the apostle Paul said that thinking in these terms was wrongheaded (Galatians 3:10).

​

... Paul's ideas override those of Jesus because it would have been just too hard to do what Jesus said to do.

If you are suggesting that an atheist was once a Christian because he was not an atheist at the time he claimed to be a Christian or claimed he believed in God, well the bible has an answer for that claim too.

I'm suggesting that, if a person claims to be a Christian, I am not going to disrespect him by saying he is not a real Christian, like you do.

There is more to becoming a Christian than just believing that there is a God or believing in God. ... I know this from my own experience, but whenever I speak of my experience in finding that truth you accuse me of being arrogant & prideful. The opposite is true, but your pride in yourself as your own god has blinded you to the truth.

No, I accused you of being arrogant because you disrespect the views of other Christians and people of other faiths.

The truth about which god? Your Christian god. The god that Christians who, as you put it, are "CINO, Christians in Name Only" worship? The gods of the Hindus? The god of the Jews?
As I have previously stated, all religious people believe their god is the Real True God.

First you call me names now you lie! You know that the quote above is NOT accurate. You purposely omit words to change the original meaning. You are showing your true self. We both know which God I am talking about.

What did I lie about? What words did I omit to change your original meaning? Here
is your post

Not everyone who claims to be a Christian is one. Some people are CINO, Christians in Name Only. They go to church every Sunday, pray, and even believe in God, but have never experienced the true born-again conversion that God Himself offers to anyone who will allow the Holy Spirit to bring him/her to Christ through the message of the Gospel. I'm not their judge, but I suspect that those “ex-christians” you referred to were probably never real Christians, and their being offended by my post would be evidence that they were actually CINO's.

According to you, all Christians who do not believe as you do, are not real Christians. Something you refer to as CINO's

I know you are not looking for God, because of your pride in yourself you are your own god.

You show arrogance toward atheists, people of other faiths and Christians.

 

[ldonjohn]

ecco:

Furthermore, I did not say your faith was not based on Truth. I pointed out that people of all faiths believe their faith is based on Truth:​

And then you quote nothing. You also continue to choose to ignore:

ecco:

You do realize that people of all denominations of Christianity believe exactly the same way you do.

You do realize that people of all religions believe exactly the same way you do.
Every religious person believes: "my god is the real god, your god is a false god"; "my ways to worship are the right ways to worship, your ways to worship are the wrong ways to worship"; "my beliefs are based on truth, your beliefs are based lies and misunderstandings".​

Again, I did not say your faith was not based on Truth. I pointed out that people of all faiths believe their faith is based on Truth. That is something that is absolute fact.







The first is a quote from a man (Paul), the second is attributed directly to Jesus. And yet, with some tortured logic...

https://www.gci.org/bible/matthew517 (Emphasis mine)

Based on the argument above, we would have to take Jesus’ words as enjoining every single commandment and regulation in the Law of Moses on Christians! The reason is because Jesus said that "not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen" from the entire body of the Jewish Holy Scriptures would disappear until "everything is accomplished."

To ask again: Did Jesus mean Christians had to keep all the regulations of the Law of Moses, including the "holy time" regulations of the Sabbath, or strict tithing, or the food laws? Consider what that line of reasoning would demand.

Christians would be obligated to keep all the sacrificial, ceremonial and civil laws described in the Law of Moses. They would have to keep every single law mentioned in Genesis through Deuteronomy — and the rest of the Old Testament. The Jews calculated that there were 613 laws in their Holy Scriptures. Christians, then, based on the idea that Jesus was telling his disciples to keep the regulations of the Law and the Prophets, would have to keep all 613 laws. No wonder the apostle Paul said that thinking in these terms was wrongheaded (Galatians 3:10).

​

... Paul's ideas override those of Jesus because it would have been just too hard to do what Jesus said to do.




I'm suggesting that, if a person claims to be a Christian, I am not going to disrespect him by saying he is not a real Christian, like you do.



No, I accused you of being arrogant because you disrespect the views of other Christians and people of other faiths.







What did I lie about? What words did I omit to change your original meaning? Here
is your post



According to you, all Christians who do not believe as you do, are not real Christians. Something you refer to as CINO's



You show arrogance toward atheists, people of other faiths and Christians.

ecco, it doesn't matter how I respond to you. You omit words from my statements to change my intended meanings into your twisted lies. You continue to use scripture out of context in your attempt to show your contempt for me and God's Word. You are a typical atheist. You will refute anything I say because of your own pride. You are your own little god.

This will be my last reply to your lies! Enjoy your folly.

Don

 

[bhsmte]

Lots of projection on CF today.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

Lots of projection on CF today.

It seems like there's some kind of hive mind going on.

 

[ecco]

ecco, it doesn't matter how I respond to you. You omit words from my statements to change my intended meanings into your twisted lies. You continue to use scripture out of context in your attempt to show your contempt for me and God's Word. You are a typical atheist. You will refute anything I say because of your own pride. You are your own little god.

This will be my last reply to your lies! Enjoy your folly.

Don

You accused me of stating disparaging things I did not state. When I asked you to show where I said those disparaging things, you did not because you could not.

You accused me of omitting words from your quotes and changing your meaning. I posted your full quotes so that you and everyone could see the disparaging things you said about other Christians.

I will refute things you say that are not true.

My folly was in attempting to have a dialogue with a dishonest and rude person.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Hi,

However, even though some of can verify, all the supernatural stuff in our lives and almost all other things like that,


,Some of what people believe who cannot do that is still correct.

LOVE,

That didn't make any sense to me. Both grammatically as well as in terms of content.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Hi,



There are so many ways to answer your question.

Let me give you an answer, the one Jesus gave us, but in two ways.

The first way will be as delivered in Parable form: Matthew 7:15-16.

The second is a translation, 'mean people, will come along and by hurting others so they can feel less hurt, are here now, lying about me and they will be there to hurt anyone they can who actually knows what is right about Me.'

The second part is extremely significant, as it is those types in Corporations and Governments that damage them also.

In all organizations, mean people exist.

Those mean people existed in the Jewish Religion, and they killed all the prophets they could.

Those people exist,,, in Catholicism, and they killed Joan of Arc, hurt Galileo, and now to your question,,, sufficiently in numbers to go after people in the know, to have in the past killed many of them and scared the rest into hiding most of the time, and they are here now taking rather than giving to the world.



This is an accurate statement. And it is only serious and to be squelched, by those mean people.

I have and do share continuously. It is in my posts. However, with my most recent failure with someone, what makes you think you will make yourself objective enough to not rail at what is so, if you yourself cannot understand the material?????

Have, you passed the prerequisites for understanding?

Do you even know what the prerequisite is?????

The prerequisite is honesty.

The prerequisites are honest enough to have been repeatedly injured by that, but refuse to stop anyway.

LOVE,

I'm not seeing any objective evidence in this post. At all.

 

[HitchSlap]

ecco, it doesn't matter how I respond to you. You omit words from my statements to change my intended meanings into your twisted lies. You continue to use scripture out of context in your attempt to show your contempt for me and God's Word. You are a typical atheist. You will refute anything I say because of your own pride. You are your own little god.

This will be my last reply to your lies! Enjoy your folly.

Don

No, not arrogant, at all.

 

[ml5363]

I feel him almost daily in my life.. is a physical experience...that is enough for me to prove God is real. I think many Christians call it feeling the presence of the Lord... I for one have felt it many times...can I show it to you, no? but I can explain it best as I can

 

[ecco]

I had my first argument against religion when I was about 5 years old, when I decided to accompany a friend who was a regular at a Sunday School. Although as a five year old, I obviously had very little (scientific) knowledge of the natural world. Nonetheless, the Bible stories being told seemed to me to be patently absurd, and proclaiming my sentiments in class earned me the censure by the (what I though at the time) 'very silly' teacher. End of S.S. for me.

I was a little older, about nine, when I was packed off to Sunday school. In about two sessions I too came to the conclusion that it was all a little silly - Giraffe heads sticking out of the top of the arc and all that. I told my folks no more Sunday School and shortly thereafter, realized that I did not believe in god.

My subsequent reading of the Bible (and much later the Koran and other religious books) confirmed me as an atheist. Apart from the obvious lack of direct or indirect evidence for the existence of gods, I'm yet to be presented with a cogent argument for even aligning with a particular religious faith.

Everything I have heard and read since then, only confirmed that my decision was the right one.


It seems neither of us was subjected to "indoctrination from birth" like many other's whose stories I have heard.

 

[david rodriguez]

I see soundly reasoned evidence as evidence of the truth.

if the soundly reasoned evidence made sound reason, would you take it to the next level of letting it be an evidence for truth?

 

[david rodriguez]

if the soundly reasoned evidence made sound reason, would you take it to the next level of letting it be an evidence for truth?

one last thing.. if it was to be evaluated for truth, what would the definition of /for 'truth' be again.

 

[david rodriguez]

Okay then. I understand that you do not have a good description of the thing that I should be confirming or denying.

I have no idea how anyone can believe that something exists without being able to give properties of that thing. It sounds completely insane to me.

is it true that what you are trying to say is that if the 'thing' in question cannot be measured by the human senses, then it doesn't make sense to believe upon it?

 

[quatona]

is it true that what you are trying to say is that if the 'thing' in question cannot be measured by the human senses, then it doesn't make sense to believe upon it?

To me at least it´s more like I can´t even begin to form an opinion about claims concerning the existence of stuff that can´t be described. After all, I don´t know what it is that I am supposed to believe or not believe in.
I mean, the statement "I (don´t) believe in X" is pretty meaningless when X doesn´t have any properties.