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Retroviral DNA Integration
- Thread starter joshua 1 9
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Herman Hedning
Hiking is fun
Yup, he didn't try hard enough obviously.
"I can't believe that!" said Alice.
"Can't you?" the Queen said in a pitying tone. "Try again: draw a long breath, and shut your eyes."
Alice laughed. "There's no use trying," she said: "one can't believe impossible things."
"I daresay you haven't had much practice," said the Queen. "When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."
Lewis Carroll: Through the Looking Glass
"Can't you?" the Queen said in a pitying tone. "Try again: draw a long breath, and shut your eyes."
Alice laughed. "There's no use trying," she said: "one can't believe impossible things."
"I daresay you haven't had much practice," said the Queen. "When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."
Lewis Carroll: Through the Looking Glass
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Thank you for helping me to make my point: "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
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Nobody fully understands the nature of ERVs.
Evolutionists really want to sell the idea that ERVs are merely remnants of accidental insertion events, however one of the more striking discoveries has been that in mammals, ERVs contribute significantly to function of the placenta, even more striking that this happens uniquely in at least half a dozen different mammal groups.
This means evolutionists are forced to claim that, as miraculous as this event happening once would be, it had to have happened independently that many times... random viruses "just happened" to become recruited for important life-sustaining functions in unique ways over and over again.
That is the magic of evolutionary thought, you just say "it must have evolved that way"...
Evolutionists really want to sell the idea that ERVs are merely remnants of accidental insertion events, however one of the more striking discoveries has been that in mammals, ERVs contribute significantly to function of the placenta, even more striking that this happens uniquely in at least half a dozen different mammal groups.
This means evolutionists are forced to claim that, as miraculous as this event happening once would be, it had to have happened independently that many times... random viruses "just happened" to become recruited for important life-sustaining functions in unique ways over and over again.
That is the magic of evolutionary thought, you just say "it must have evolved that way"...
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Yes, we do.
First, you never show how it is miraculous.
Second, the viral protein is filling the same function in the placenta that it filled as part of the retroviral genome.
"We find that the major sites of syncytin expression are placental syncytiotrophoblasts, multinucleated cells that originate from fetal trophoblasts. We show that expression of recombinant syncytin in a wide variety of cell types induces the formation of giant syncytia, and that fusion of a human trophoblastic cell line expressing endogenous syncytin can be inhibited by an anti-syncytin antiserum. Our data indicate that syncytin may mediate placental cytotrophoblast fusion in vivo, and thus may be important in human placental morphogenesis."
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v403/n6771/full/403785a0.html
As part of the retroviral genome, the envelope protein allowed for the fusion of the viral particle to the host cell membrane. As part of the placenta, it does the exact same thing for a different set of cell membranes. I really don't see how this is miraculous. Perhaps you could explain that claim?
Also, what would make you doubt that ERV's are from retroviral insertion? They have the same genes and gene arrangements as modern retroviruses. In fact, a consensus sequence of HERV-K insertions produces a viable retrovirus:
"Here, we derived in silico the sequence of the putative ancestral “progenitor” element of one of the most recently amplified family—the HERV-K family—and constructed it. This element, Phoenix, produces viral particles that disclose all of the structural and functional properties of a bona-fide retrovirus, can infect mammalian, including human, cells, and integrate with the exact signature of the presently found endogenous HERV-K progeny."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1665638/
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No, you don't. "Evolution dunnit" does not demonstrate understanding, just an enduring metaphysical belief that all things are present because they "evolved"
Well, it's no more miraculous than the belief that any complex piece of anatomy evolved. But just to be clear, the researchers themselves were apparently surprised by the findings:
"These genes are remarkable, as they are “necessary” for a basic function in placental mammals and yet they were acquired “by chance” on multiple occasions and independently in diverse mammalian species."
http://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1003400
This is a prime example of evolutionary rationalization. One the one hand, if the shared placental function were derived from the same genetic source, it would be hailed as confirming evidence for shared ancestry. However, when the shared anatomical function is derived from *different* genetic sources, evolutionists just say they were "remarkable" unique events that occurred after the animal lineages split.
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The explanation is retroviral insertion followed by vertical inheritance did it, and we can test and observe the entire process in the lab and in the wild.
That's just your opinion. Where are the facts?
Again, just your opinion. Will you be addressing facts any time soon?
How did they determine that they were different genetic sources?
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Don't be lazy. We're not talking about just any retroviral insertions. We're talking about complex anatomy that relies on those insertions to function, that according to evolutionists, was not "vertically inherited", but horizontally, occurring independently in multiple lineages.
Yea just my opinion. Meanwhile, you think the idea of differential reproduction turning fish into human civilization is some humdrum fact of life. lol
Quotes from the literature are not my opinion.
I'm just repeating the researchers' conclusions. I gave you the link to the paper. You are free to investigate the methods to your heart's content.
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What is the problem that you have with these sequences?
Do you have something other than ridicule to offer?
"Well, it's no more miraculous than the belief that any complex piece of anatomy evolved."
That is not a quote from the scientific literature.
No, you aren't. You are injecting your own unfounded opinion, as the last quote demonstrates.
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Why would I believe such a fantasy that a placenta even evolved to begin with, much less recruited viruses for the job? Sounds pretty silly to be honest.
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It is not really his fault. Darwin got pretty sick, from his voyage. Most likely from a virus, so he was somewhat limited.
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