Refuting Sola Scriptura - Why the Bible Alone is Not Sufficient

[EastCoastRemnant]

I knew this guy who made the remark that if the Vicar of Christ is really infallible, he should be using that ability all the time. To me this is like those who say that Christ should heal everyone who has faith, and put an end to all the evil in the world. God doesn't come into our lives and make everything perfect or make His Vicar omniscient. He gives us what we need to know when we need to know it as he allows us room to grow as people and as the Body of Christ. I love the Papacy and the Catholic Church. I don't always understand what I hear about what the Pope said or whatever, but I find the Papacy to be a gift from God.

That's what free will is all about...

 

[thecolorsblend]

Catholics and Protestants make traditions. One is backed by the bible and one isn't

Sola Scriptura is a limitation imposed by Protestantism; not Catholicism.

 

[tulipbee]

Sola Scriptura is a limitation imposed by Protestantism; not Catholicism.

Men are told to go proclaim with the bible. If no one is left on earth then it's sola scripture.

 

[Fireinfolding]

The gospel is in the prophets since Jesus fulfills them (as they are they which testify of me) it wasnt interpeted in light of some oral word but the Word (Christ) and you can see an example in Philip with the eunuch (preaching Jesus) from Isaiah

Jesus sent them to preach the gospel, the Spirit told him to join himself to a specific chariot

And...

Acts 8:30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias,

and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?

(So he was really reading the gospel of Jesus Christ in the book of Isaiah since Jesus had just come and fulfilled those very things). The eunuch just needed "the who" or "the name" of "the who" the prophet was speaking about.

This is exactly what he did not understand per his own question saying,

Acts 8:34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?

And Philip started right there and preached Jesus Christ to him out of the written book of Isaiah

Acts 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

Out of the written words of one of the prophets (the eunuch had a copy of) they testifying of the living Word (Jesus Christ) who also said "they are they" which testify of me. And so he was preached out of the same

So again we see

Acts 8:35 Then Philip (((opened his mouth,))) and ORALLY began at the same scripture WRITTEN IN A BOOK and preached unto him Jesus (((The living Word)))

Then he also knew to get baptized so aparently Philip told him what Jesus said

 

[thecolorsblend]

Men are told to go proclaim with the bible.

Tradition is the only way you know that what you have in your hands is Sacred Scripture. The authority of the Church is your first, last and only guarantee that the "Bible" is comprised of God's inspired word. Sola Scriptura is a logical dead end inasmuch as there is no divinely provided table of contents specifying which writings are inspired. Even the ancient Israelites couldn't agree on a universal canon... because their unity was derived from other things (eg, the Temple).

 

[EinsteinsGirl]

When the LORD HimSelf tells me to do something via His rhema word, then what do the SS people think of that?
I would rather have a direct instruction from God.
Does it have to be in line with scripture? - sure.
But there's still a problem in that some people make the bible say what they want it to say.
Relationship directly with God is more important than the bible.
Hearing His voice directly when you're in relationship with God is more important.
But it does need to be in line with scripture. God doesn't contradict Himself

 

[Rick Otto]

I don't see how I've made a technicality in this discussion. The pope's infallibility has been shown to apply only to a limited range of circumstances. That isn't a "technicality", it's what the Church teaches.

It is the technicality. The practicality is that the ground he walks on is worshipped. The aura of power exceeds the technical description of the power.

 

[Rick Otto]

When the LORD HimSelf tells me to do something via His rhema word, then what do the SS people think of that?
I would rather have a direct instruction from God.
Does it have to be in line with scripture? - sure.
But there's still a problem in that some people make the bible say what they want it to say.
Relationship directly with God is more important than the bible.
Hearing His voice directly when you're in relationship with God is more important.
But it does need to be in line with scripture. God doesn't contradict Himself

Apparently us SS people think the same way you do.

 

[Rick Otto]

Tradition is the only way you know[/B] that what you have in your hands is Sacred Scripture. The authority of the Church is your first, last and only guarantee that the "Bible" is comprised of God's inspired word. Sola Scriptura is a logical dead end inasmuch as there is no divinely provided table of contents specifying which writings are inspired. Even the ancient Israelites couldn't agree on a universal canon... because their unity was derived from other things (eg, the Temple).

The Holy Spirit is not a tradition.

 

[thecolorsblend]

The practicality is that the ground he walks on is worshipped.

Not at all.

The aura of power exceeds the technical description of the power.

The aura... You mean you believe he has more power than what the Church itself says he has? I find that rather easy to believe but still you are mistaken. The Church has accurately described the scope of his authority. It is considerable but not absolute. Certainly it is not what you have characterized it as being in this thread.

 

[thecolorsblend]

The Holy Spirit is not a tradition.

The Holy Spirit guides the Church, I'm proud of you for acknowledging that. And I agree, of course.

 

[EinsteinsGirl]

You mean you believe he has more power than what the Church itself says he has? I find that rather easy to believe but still you are mistaken. The Church has accurately described the scope of his authority. It is considerable but not absolute. Certainly it is not what you have characterized it as being in this thread.

NO man should be put on a pedestal. The pope is just a man and Mary is just a woman.
The only human who walked this earth worthy of worship is Jesus the Christ
- He is God - He died and rose from the dead for remission of all sin.
Christians should not listen to the 'church' over God's instruction.
The church teaches wrong doctrine all the time. SOME is right, but some is wrong.
1 John 2:27 says
"But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie—just as it has taught you, abide in him."

Scripture does not say anywhere you have to belong to an institutionalized 'church'.
- It says to NOT FORSAKE GATHERING TOGETHER WITH BELIEVERS.
Big difference.
Acts 5:29, "But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men"

 

[patricius79]

Catholics and Protestants make traditions. One is backed by the bible and one isn't

I don't think the Bible supports the doctrine of Sola Scriptura. I think that Christ and the Church have always taught orally. 2 Thessalonians 2:15, 2 Timothy 2:2, Luke 10:16, Philippians 4:9, 2 Timothy 3:14

I think that the Bible itself is part of Catholic Tradition (the Word of God), which itself is the historic source of the N.T. Canon, which is not given in the Bible.

I love the historic Church and find all of her teachings to be integral with the Bible. I love the Blessed Mother, who, with Christ, pulled me from the pit.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Jesus says ME (the Word) and MY words (which were God's) so me and my words are really the word of God, since the word (He, Christ, The Word) has spoken will judge him in the last day

Right, and Christ still speaks today. And we still listen today. We also read what was written, but as Scripture says, all he said and did could not be contained in all the books of the world.

 

[Root of Jesse]

According to the few

Actually, according to the very many, if you want to go by numbers.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Right, and Christ still speaks today. And we still listen today. We also read what was written, but as Scripture says, all he said and did could not be contained in all the books of the world.

It had said before time that the making many books there is no end, much study is weariness of the flesh, that would be no surprise.

It is also written

Heb 3:7-9 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.

Philip was led by the Spirit to preach Jesus from Isaiah, the Spirit was speaking to him (instructing him in that way).

 

[thecolorsblend]

NO man should be put on a pedestal. The pope is just a man and Mary is just a woman.

That really has nothing to do with anything. The fact is, as I said, the Pope doesn't have the absolute authority Rick seems to believe nor is he worshiped by Catholics... which it sounds like Rick and you both need clarification on.

 

[Goatee]

NO man should be put on a pedestal. The pope is just a man and Mary is just a woman.
The only human who walked this earth worthy of worship is Jesus the Christ
- He is God - He died and rose from the dead for remission of all sin.
Christians should not listen to the 'church' over God's instruction.
The church teaches wrong doctrine all the time. SOME is right, but some is wrong.
1 John 2:27 says
"But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie—just as it has taught you, abide in him."

Scripture does not say anywhere you have to belong to an institutionalized 'church'.
- It says to NOT FORSAKE GATHERING TOGETHER WITH BELIEVERS.
Big difference.
Acts 5:29, "But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men"

Indeed, the Pope is an ordinary man. He is the head, on earth, of the Catholic Church. Nobody worships the Pope. He can sin like anyone else. Its other denominations and people who put the Pope on a pedestal as Catholics just recognise him as a successor from Peter. An earthly 'Head' of the church founded by Jesus! Seems to me that its people 'outside' of the Catholic faith that place the Pope on such a high pedestal!

Again, Mary is not worshiped by anyone in the Catholic faith. That is just a myth that 'Non' Catholics like to spread about because of their hatred for the true church of Christ! Our Blessed Mother was more than 'Just a Woman!' She is the Mother of Christ!

As a Catholic you cannot pick and choose scripture like non Catholics. The way is narrow! Jesus said it wouldnt be easy! Being a Catholic we have to live with the abuses of those that like to hurl insults at us because as a Catholic we all stand firm in the true beliefs of the church. Beliefs embedded into the core of the church by the Holy Spirit. Alive in the True church as much today as it was when Jesus told the Apostles that the Holy Spirit would visit them on that day in the upper room.

Jesus sent out the Apostles to teach. They were 'The' Church. From what you state, people shouldn't have listened to them then?

 

[Root of Jesse]

It had said before time that the making many books there is no end, much study is weariness of the flesh, that would be no surprise.

It is also written

Heb 3:7-9 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.

Philip was led by the Spirit to preach Jesus from Isaiah, the Spirit was speaking to him (instructing him in that way).

Philip not only read from Isaiah, he interpreted it for the Eunuch. That's what Tradition is, giving context to what was written. Hebrews, for what it's worth, was an oral preaching before it was written. We don't even know who wrote it. This tells us that it doesn't so much matter who wrote it, if it speaks the Truth, it's the word of God. Words are spoke as well as written. We don't limit God to just what he inspired to be written, we listen to what he inspired to be spoken as well.

 

[Root of Jesse]

NO man should be put on a pedestal. The pope is just a man and Mary is just a woman.
The only human who walked this earth worthy of worship is Jesus the Christ
- He is God - He died and rose from the dead for remission of all sin.
Christians should not listen to the 'church' over God's instruction.
The church teaches wrong doctrine all the time. SOME is right, but some is wrong.
1 John 2:27 says
"But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie—just as it has taught you, abide in him."

Scripture does not say anywhere you have to belong to an institutionalized 'church'.
- It says to NOT FORSAKE GATHERING TOGETHER WITH BELIEVERS.
Big difference.
Acts 5:29, "But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men"

The Pope is just a man, but he's a man chosen by the Holy Spirit, as Matthias was chosen to replace Judas. Mary IS just a woman, but she was chosen by God to be the Tabernacle of God while he formed in her womb.