It should be Murder?

[ranunculus]

So if it's a natural miscarriage there's no need to investigate. But how do you determine if it is a natural miscarriage without investigating..?

exactly!

 

[SteveB28]

No alternative? I can easily think of one.

Have the baby.

Another male with all the answers for women, I see. What a surprise!

 

[ranunculus]

So no need to investigate then, unless someone reports it.

If a first trimester abortion (spontaneous or otherwise) doesn't demand a criminal investigation, then a fetus doesn't have the same rights as a born human being.

 

[Bluecheese]

I had a miscarriage at 13 weeks in 1972, just one of those things. An embryo has only the potential to develop into a viable human being. The mothers rights should ALWAYS supersede that of the unborn until it is deemed viable, imo.

 

[SteveB28]

If abortions were actually classified as murder, they'd be handled like any murder case would be.

First Degree Murder: if the mother premeditated the murder of the baby (gave it thought, planned it, and executed it in a cool and deliberate manner.) So if there were evidence that the mother went to a doctor, and had a abortion, it'd be first degree probably, pretty easy for the jury to infer premeditation there.

Quite a genius answer that. Except for one tiny problem.

You've just passed a law against abortions, so doctors don't perform them any more!

Do you people ever stop to think before your fingers start dancing across the keys?

Second Degree Murder: Second Degree Murder is known as reckless and depraved heart murder. You might not have intended to kill the baby, but you certainly acted indifferent towards it's life. For example, if the mother snorted cocaine and drank heavily, resulting in the death of the baby, it might be second degree murder, if you have the evidence to prove the baby died as a result of drug or alcohol abuse.

Accidental deaths as the result of negligence, would be involuntary manslaughter.

And how, exactly do you determine that this was the cause of the miscarriage, as opposed to a simple natural process?

And, for those women who are simply unfortunate enough to to undergo a natural miscarriage, will your law insist that each and every one of them undergo an internal inspection and a police interview, to ensure their 'innocence'?

It'd probably be much easier to prove murder in abortion cases than regular old murder, kinda hard to hide the fact you used to be pregnant and now aren't, also hard to hide medical records, or lack there of.

It'd be awfully suspicious to show up one day with no pregnant belly 6 months in, there'd be a lot of explaining to do.

Oh good grief!

I am tempted to use terms like 'moronic', but I am too well mannered. Do yourself a really valuable service and do some reading about the operation of the female reproductive system!

 

[JackRT]

We could set up a brand new government bureaucracy with a cabinet minister in charge. Clinics scattered around the country, ten thousand should do it, to which women are required to report monthly for pregnancy and drug testing. Yeah, that ought to handle it. For ease of tracking and processing it would help if we chipped all the women.

 

[ximmix]

We could set up a brand new government bureaucracy with a cabinet minister in charge. Clinics scattered around the country, ten thousand should do it, to which women are required to report monthly for pregnancy and drug testing. Yeah, that ought to handle it. For ease of tracking and processing it would help if we chipped all the women.

Just model it after the inquisition, seemed to work out well...

 

[SteveB28]

I think if you did a back alley abortion, your body would show it.

And what is the number for enormous?

But, until the woman is examined, it would not be known if she has had an abortion or has miscarried!

IS YOUR BRILLIANT LAW GOING TO DEMAND THAT EVERY WOMAN THAT EXPERIENCES A TERMINATION OF A PREGNANCY WILL HAVE TO UNDERGO SOME FORM OF EXAMINATION TO DETERMINE THAT SHE DIDNT CAUSE THE TERMINATION!?

 

[ximmix]

But, until the woman is examined, it would not be known if she has had an abortion or has miscarried!

IS YOUR BRILLIANT LAW GOING TO DEMAND THAT EVERY WOMAN THAT EXPERIENCES A TERMINATION OF A PREGNANCY WILL HAVE TO UNDERGO SOME FORM OF EXAMINATION TO DETERMINE THAT SHE DIDNT CAUSE THE TERMINATION!?

Of course, that's the natural conclusion...

 

[SteveB28]

So no need to investigate then, unless someone reports it.

Oh, but according to you lot, a murder may have occurred! Police don't require a complaint to investigate a murder, do they?

You haven't thought this through very well at all, have you? You want to be able to dictate to women what they should and should not do, but haven't spent a moment on pondering the consequences.

 

[ximmix]

Oh, but according to you lot, a murder may have occurred! Police don't require a complaint to investigate a murder, do they?

You haven't thought this through very well at all, have you? You want to be able to dictate to women what they should and should not do, but haven't spent a moment on pondering the consequences.

Sounds like a fair assessment of the logic...

 

[SteveB28]

And, for those who may think this is all highly theoretical:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ailed-for-feticide-its-never-happened-before/

 

[ximmix]

And, for those who may think this is all highly theoretical:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ailed-for-feticide-its-never-happened-before/

Of course, punish the poor woman some more with a nice long prison sentence. Sigh, only in America..?

 

[Desk trauma]

So no need to investigate then, unless someone reports it.

If you're going to give full legal protections there would need to be. Unless you're not going to confer legal rights until after the first trimester there would need to be rather intrusive measures taken with all sexually active women so as to protect the citizens possibly developing inside them and determine the cause of death should they die.

 

[Cearbhall]

No alternative? I can easily think of one.

Have the baby.

Except for cases where there's someone who's going to kill you (and therefore the baby as well) if you let people know you're pregnant...but I suppose you would say that she's morally obligated to hide in a shelter for the next few years because she was raped.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Well, it could be a miscarriage, or she could have given birth, so just no longer being preganent means nothing.

 

[Desk trauma]

It'd be awfully suspicious to show up one day with no pregnant belly 6 months in, there'd be a lot of explaining to do.

How would this be kept track of? Would all pregnancies have to be registered with the state or federal government? Would women no longer have confidentiality with medical personnel when it comes to pregnancy?

 

[LivingWordUnity]

I see many here who would wish to deny a woman the right to terminate a pregnancy, by declaring that it would be an act of murder.

And yet I also see those same people running away from this question:

How would such a law be enforced?

Are you asking how would a law against abortion prevent abortions from happening? Or do you mean how should it be punished after the fact?

If you mean the first, there isn't any law that prevents a crime from happening. But that doesn't mean that we should not have a law against abortion. Laws against things are meant to be a deterrent.

If you mean the second, I think the abortionist should be charged the same as any other murderer. And the woman who gets the abortion should be psychologically evaluated. If she is found to have been mentally unstable then she should be treated for the mental illness that led her to go to an abortionist. But if she is found to have done it with cold-blooded intent then she should get the same punishment as when a mother murders her baby after the baby is born.

 

[jenny1972]

I see many here who would wish to deny a woman the right to terminate a pregnancy, by declaring that it would be an act of murder.

And yet I also see those same people running away from this question:

How would such a law be enforced?

by making it against the law and arrest and bring to trial those who break the law just like we do with other people who break the law . Innocent until (if) proven guilty like all other criminal suspects .

 

[jenny1972]

For example, if it is reported to the authorities that a woman who was known to be pregnant is no longer so, how should they proceed?

investigate and if they believe it is murder charges should be brought by a prosecutor and the the legal process goes forward in the same way as anyone who is suspected of committing a crime .