Is God a liar?

[brotherjerry]

And your verse in Isaiah 11...so all things will be restored as they were in the beginning....just as man is restored by the in dwelling of the Spirit...so what...that is not proof that we are in a 6th day or anything like that...it is proof that things will be restored as God had created them.

ALSO, Unless today remains the 6th Day, then the LORD told Adam a lie and satan told them the Truth since Adam did NOT die in 24 hours AND he and Eve were "created in God's Image" or born again Spiritually AFTER Cain killed Abel. Gen 5:1-2

Adam and Eve did die that very day. They died spiritually. And they were allowed to die physically. God said they would die if they ate...He did not say in 24 hours or give any time frame. God was also not speaking physically but spiritually. And when Adam and Eve decided they knew what was good and evil instead of trusting in God...they died spiritually.

So no God did not lie to them in any way. Satan did when he told them they surely would not die. He twisted what God said...which is Satan's modus operandi.

ALSO, you CLAIM Adam died Spiritually when he sinned, which is supposing that God the Trinity made a mistake when He created him Spiritually and Eternally. Do you believe God makes mistakes?

WHAT?! Have no idea how in the heck you came up with that?

ALSO, You idea that Adam was made Spiritually at first is not true, since this verse from the New Testament says:

1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was NOT first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Ummmm. No I did not say Adam was made spiritually...I said Adam was made with a spirit. Very different.

ALSO, Gen 2:1 shows that God's work is "finished" or brought to perfection and that ALL the host of Heaven are in Heaven, on the 7th Day. Don't you know that when God's work is finished, it's perfect, or God didn't do it? Do you believe today's world is perfect while thousands of little children are dying of hunger Today? God sees the end from the beginning Isa 46:10 and He told us our future at the end of the present 6th Day, thousands of years ago.

Nope this world is no longer perfect. Because of the actions of man.
Romans 5:12 "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so deaht spread to all men, because all sinned"
We see that what God created WAS perfect...until man sinned, and then sin entered the world, and the world was no longer perfect. And continues to get worse. Which is why the earth is restored, and there is a new earth and a new heaven (Revelations 21:1)

ALSO, Gen 2:2-3 REPEAT that God rests from "ALL" of His work on the 7th Day, which is future to our time. Heb 4:9 IF God had rested from ALL His work in the beginning, then HOW could anyone be saved since it takes the AGREEMENT of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit to create a New Creature in Christ? Gen 1:26 and John 14:16

Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had made; and He rested (CEASED) on the seventh day from ALL His work which He had made. Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it He had rested (CEASED) from ALL His work which God created and made.

IF God had rested in the beginning, then HOW did Jesus (Who is God) die on the Cross since according to Gen 2:2-3, God rested from ALL of His work thousands of years before Jesus was crucified? IF God had rested in the beginning, then HOW could the Holy Spirit's (Who is God) work continue today?

Ummm...he ceased his creative work...There was no more creation going on...the laws of nature were put in place, the laws of physics were put in place, there was nothing left to create...His work of creation was done. There is absolutely NOTHING in those verses that indicate God resting means He is no longer active in our lives, working in His creation for His purpose. To think that is unbiblical and just plain silly. But when the 6th day of creation was done, there was nothing left to create. THAT is what Gen 2:2 was talking about.

God's creation of Adam (mankind) Spiritually and Eternally continues today as ANY Gospel preacher will tell you. We live today at Gen 1:27 because God continues to create Adam (mankind) in His Image, which is In Christ Spiritually. God will NOT rest until His Creation is made perfect at the end of the present 6th Day. Amen?

I have no idea what "gospel preachers" you listen too...but there is none I have ever heard that teach any sort of message like you are teaching. Probably because what you are talking about is not Biblically founded. So now you have brought up one verse that talks about all animals eating straw...is that all you have as a basis for your doctrine? I have clearly displayed where this is an indication of the restoration of where the world was before man fell..which is what God desires.

 

[BobRyan]

Aman...sorry don't work that way. Your the claimant, not me. You are claiming something different than what is established by the Bible and accepted as truth. The onus of proof is always on the claimant. So you should prove your point and in the process prove others are incorrect, because if others can also be correct then the the simplest solution is the one to go with.

Do you believe that as the Bible states man ate nothing but plants until after the flood?
Before the flood we had no need for the canine teeth we come with, obviously after the flood when we were allowed to eat meat the physiology that made that easier was brought forth in our genetic makeup. Thus we get a set of somewhat pointy teeth. Do you not think that is possible of the other predators of the world? Considering that even animals like cats and dogs that are meat eaters, also eat vegetation. .

Those are all good points..

Consider the Parrot, the Panda, and other vegetarians that have sharp claws and pointy teeth. Some fruits, some roots, some vegetables require more "work" to get to the meaty parts - than others.

 

[Aman777]

And your verse in Isaiah 11...so all things will be restored as they were in the beginning....just as man is restored by the in dwelling of the Spirit...so what...that is not proof that we are in a 6th day or anything like that...it is proof that things will be restored as God had created them.

Doesn't agree with Scripture since Isaiah 11 and Revelation 19 shows that it happens AFTER Jesus returns to this Earth:

Isa 11:4 But with righteousness shall He judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and He shall smite the earth with the rod of His mouth, and with the breath of His lips shall He slay the wicked. Isa 11:5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of His loins, and faithfulness the girdle of His reins. Isa 11:6 ¶ The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

Revelation shows the SAME thing:

Rev 19:15 And out of His mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it He should smite the nations: and He shall rule them with a rod of iron: and He treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And He hath on His vesture and on His thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Strike one.

***Adam and Eve did die that very day. They died spiritually. And they were allowed to die physically. God said they would die if they ate...He did not say in 24 hours or give any time frame. God was also not speaking physically but spiritually. And when Adam and Eve decided they knew what was good and evil instead of trusting in God...they died spiritually.

I have decided to BOLD the things which do NOT agree Scripturally:

The Lord told Adam, Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Adam was told that he would die "in the day" he disobeyed. Adam did NOT die in 24 hours but he did die in the present 6th Day. Strike 2
ALSO, since you believe that Adam was created Spiritually, it's up to you to show us this Scripturally. You cannot since God doesn't make mistakes. When God creates a person Spiritually, they will NEVER die.

***So no God did not lie to them in any way. Satan did when he told them they surely would not die. He twisted what God said...which is Satan's modus operandi.

Amen, since Adam died on the present 6th Day just as ALL of mankind lives and dies on the present 6th Day.

Aman:>>ALSO, you CLAIM Adam died Spiritually when he sinned, which is supposing that God the Trinity made a mistake when He created him Spiritually and Eternally. Do you believe God makes mistakes?

***WHAT?! Have no idea how in the heck you came up with that?

Ummmm. No I did not say Adam was made spiritually...I said Adam was made with a spirit. Very different.

False, since Adam was made a living soul (Heb-being). Gen 2:7 Strike 3

Aman:>>ALSO, Gen 2:1 shows that God's work is "finished" or brought to perfection and that ALL the host of Heaven are in Heaven, on the 7th Day. Don't you know that when God's work is finished, it's perfect, or God didn't do it? Do you believe today's world is perfect while thousands of little children are dying of hunger Today? God sees the end from the beginning Isa 46:10 and He told us our future at the end of the present 6th Day, thousands of years ago.

***Nope this world is no longer perfect. Because of the actions of man.
Romans 5:12 "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so deaht spread to all men, because all sinned"

Notice the verse you quoted shows that DEATH came to ALL men by Adam's sin. Darkness or death was already upon EVERYTHING God created apart from Himself in the beginning. That is WHY He said, Let there be Light and Jesus came into the physical world to defeat DEATH/darkness. Gen 1:3

***We see that what God created WAS perfect...until man sinned, and then sin entered the world, and the world was no longer perfect. And continues to get worse. Which is why the earth is restored, and there is a new earth and a new heaven (Revelations 21:1)

False since Adam wasn't perfect. He lived in a perfect body for Billions of years BUT he was NOT perfect and that is WHY he sinned. No man is perfect since sin is in our Flesh. Rom 8:3 The ONLY way to be perfect is to be "created in God's Image" or in God, since ONLY God is perfect. Mar 10:18


***Ummm...he ceased his creative work...There was no more creation going on...the laws of nature were put in place, the laws of physics were put in place, there was nothing left to create...His work of creation was done. There is absolutely NOTHING in those verses that indicate God resting means He is no longer active in our lives, working in His creation for His purpose. To think that is unbiblical and just plain silly. But when the 6th day of creation was done, there was nothing left to create. THAT is what Gen 2:2 was talking about.

It takes the AGREEMENT of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit to "create". Gen 1:26 and John 14:16 This shows that God is STILL creating people in Christ TODAY. NO one can be saved AFTER the 6th Day, the Day of Salvation, since ALL the host of Heaven is in Heaven in Gen 2:1.

***I have no idea what "gospel preachers" you listen too...but there is none I have ever heard that teach any sort of message like you are teaching. Probably because what you are talking about is not Biblically founded. So now you have brought up one verse that talks about all animals eating straw...is that all you have as a basis for your doctrine? I have clearly displayed where this is an indication of the restoration of where the world was before man fell..which is what God desires.

I listen to preachers who actually preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ which IS the power of God unto Salvation. Rom 1:16 Can you tell us WHAT the Gospel of Jesus Christ is? There is but ONE Gospel of Jesus Christ so when I say that "gospel preachers" preach the Gospel of Jesus, I am referring to the ONE Gospel of Jesus. Amen?

 

[Aman777]

Those are all good points..

Consider the Parrot, the Panda, and other vegetarians that have sharp claws and pointy teeth. Some fruits, some roots, some vegetables require more "work" to get to the meaty parts - than others.

No so UNLESS you can show us Scripturally of a time in the past when Bears, Wolves and Lions were vegetarians, which you cannot. Isa 11:6-7 Amen?

 

[brotherjerry]

Aman...

Doesn't agree with Scripture since Isaiah 11 and Revelation 19 shows that it happens AFTER Jesus returns to this Earth:

What do you mean it does not agree with Scripture...are you saying that Scripture does not say that the earth will be restored as in that there will be a new earth? I beg to differ with you on that...I even cited Revelations saying just that same thing.

And I was correct...God did not say in 24 hours as you indicated. It says "in the day that you eat from it"....so unless Adam ate the fruit on the first second of the day....he did not have 24 hours. It was less than 24 hours.
However, Adam died spiritually right then and there.

Aman:>>ALSO, you CLAIM Adam died Spiritually when he sinned, which is supposing that God the Trinity made a mistake when He created him Spiritually and Eternally. Do you believe God makes mistakes?

***WHAT?! Have no idea how in the heck you came up with that?

Ummmm. No I did not say Adam was made spiritually...I said Adam was made with a spirit. Very different.

False, since Adam was made a living soul (Heb-being). Gen 2:7 Strike 3

This whole exchange...you seem to have issues following the conversation. As I said in previous post and repeated in this post...I did NOT say that Adam was created spiritually...I said that he was created with a spirit.

Notice the verse you quoted shows that DEATH came to ALL men by Adam's sin. Darkness or death was already upon EVERYTHING God created apart from Himself in the beginning. That is WHY He said, Let there be Light and Jesus came into the physical world to defeat DEATH/darkness. Gen 1:3

But Romans 5:12 does not say that sin came to all men. It says that sin entered into the world through one man, and spread to all men. This is because all men were created in the image of Adam as Genesis 5:3 states "he became the father of a son in his own likeness, according to his image"

False since Adam wasn't perfect. He lived in a perfect body for Billions of years BUT he was NOT perfect and that is WHY he sinned. No man is perfect since sin is in our Flesh. Rom 8:3 The ONLY way to be perfect is to be "created in God's Image" or in God, since ONLY God is perfect. Mar 10:18

WOW soo much here. Not certain where you get billions of years...but not a point of discussion for this thread.
Adam WAS created in God's image Gen 1:27 "God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him"... Gen 9:6 "For in the image of God He made man."

Nothing in the Bible is pointless. God saw fit to inspire the writers to put this down, that Adam was in the image of God. And then to also express in Genesis 5 that descendants of Adam were in the image of Adam and not the image of God. Because Adam was no longer as God had made him. And the descendants of Adam were in the fallen state that Adam was.

It takes the AGREEMENT of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit to "create". Gen 1:26 and John 14:16 This shows that God is STILL creating people in Christ TODAY. NO one can be saved AFTER the 6th Day, the Day of Salvation, since ALL the host of Heaven is in Heaven in Gen 2:1.

This is the kind of statement you need to expand upon and show how you would derive this sort of doctrine. While making babies is a miraculous thing, it is a biological even that God had put in motion by the 6th day. The whole "be fruitful and multiply" bit. I would completely agree that all life is at the will of the Father, He established rules of the universe by day 6 and then ceased because the creation was complete. There was nothing else in the universe that needed to be created. All the laws of nature were complete, physics, biology, math, etc...all was set in place. THAT is what was being talked about when mentioning the 7th day was a day of rest. On top of the fact that God established that as a foundation for man to work as well.

No so UNLESS you can show us Scripturally of a time in the past when Bears, Wolves and Lions were vegetarians, which you cannot. Isa 11:6-7 Amen?

I know this was to Bob Ryan...but you are very wrong here. We do not have to show a time when this occured in order to believe the Bible for what it says. Just because you do not think the Bible fits into what you believe science is saying is not for us to prove otherwise....Simply put, trust the Bible, not science.

 

[Aman777]

Aman...
Isaiah 11 and Revelation 19 shows that it happens AFTER Jesus returns to this Earth:

***What do you mean it does not agree with Scripture...are you saying that Scripture does not say that the earth will be restored as in that there will be a new earth? I beg to differ with you on that...I even cited Revelations saying just that same thing.

The present Earth will be burned. ll Peter 3:10 The New Heaven and the New Earth of Rev 21:1 is the THIRD Heaven, where Paul was taken to receive the Gospel from Jesus. ll Cor 12:2 Jesus told us, I go to prepare a place for you...Jhn 14:2

***And I was correct...God did not say in 24 hours as you indicated. It says "in the day that you eat from it"....so unless Adam ate the fruit on the first second of the day....he did not have 24 hours. It was less than 24 hours.
However, Adam died spiritually right then and there.

Then you must believe that God created Adam Spiritually, and then he died Spiritually. Doesn't compute since God doesn't make mistakes. Once a person is created Spiritually and Eternally, he is as sure for Heaven as Jesus. Adam died on the present 6th Day exactly as the Lord told him.

***Romans 5:12 does not say that sin came to all men. It says that sin entered into the world through one man, and spread to all men. This is because all men were created in the image of Adam as Genesis 5:3 states "he became the father of a son in his own likeness, according to his image"

Mankind in the Flesh, MUST be born again Spiritually to be "created in God's image" and live forever with Jesus.

***Genesis 5 that descendants of Adam were in the image of Adam and not the image of God. Because Adam was no longer as God had made him. And the descendants of Adam were in the fallen state that Adam was.

Amen, and that is WHY every person who will live in Heaven MUST be created in God's Image, which is in Christ Spiritually.

Aman:>>John 14:16 This shows that God is STILL creating people in Christ TODAY. NO one can be saved AFTER the 6th Day, the Day of Salvation, since ALL the host of Heaven is in Heaven in Gen 2:1.

***This is the kind of statement you need to expand upon and show how you would derive this sort of doctrine. While making babies is a miraculous thing, it is a biological even that God had put in motion by the 6th day. The whole "be fruitful and multiply" bit. I would completely agree that all life is at the will of the Father, He established rules of the universe by day 6 and then ceased because the creation was complete. There was nothing else in the universe that needed to be created. All the laws of nature were complete, physics, biology, math, etc...all was set in place. THAT is what was being talked about when mentioning the 7th day was a day of rest. On top of the fact that God established that as a foundation for man to work as well.

God is STILL creating Adam (Heb-mankind) in Christ Today since we STILL live at Gen 1:27. Gen 1:28-31 is prophecy.

Aman:>>No so UNLESS you can show us Scripturally of a time in the past when Bears, Wolves and Lions were vegetarians, which you cannot. Isa 11:6-7 Amen?

***I know this was to Bob Ryan...but you are very wrong here. We do not have to show a time when this occured in order to believe the Bible for what it says. Just because you do not think the Bible fits into what you believe science is saying is not for us to prove otherwise....Simply put, trust the Bible, not science.

Amen, and I do. The problem with most people is that they study the RELIGION (belief) of ancient men and NOT what the Bible actually says. Only the people of the last days, AFTER knowledge has increased, can possibly understand Genesis since many of the things revealed in Genesis are YET to be discovered by today's Science. What has been discovered AGREES in every way with Genesis IF you have the proper understanding. Amen?

 

[brotherjerry]

Aman

Then you must believe that God created Adam Spiritually, and then he died Spiritually. Doesn't compute since God doesn't make mistakes. Once a person is created Spiritually and Eternally, he is as sure for Heaven as Jesus. Adam died on the present 6th Day exactly as the Lord told him

Ummm no. God created Adam with a spirit. And that spirit died (so he did die spiritually). He was created alive spiritually...but that is not the same as being created spiritually like an angel.

Mankind in the Flesh, MUST be born again Spiritually to be "created in God's image" and live forever with Jesus

EXACTLY! When we are born again spiritually (being given a spirit) we are in God's Image, we are just like Adam was before the fall when Adam died spiritually. The Bible says before we are born again spiritually, we are dead. Adam was created alive and became dead.

John 14:16 This shows that God is STILL creating people in Christ TODAY. NO one can be saved AFTER the 6th Day, the Day of Salvation, since ALL the host of Heaven is in Heaven in Gen 2:1

People being created (physically or spiritually) is not THE CREATION talked about in Gen 1, that God rested from on the 7th day. Every person created physically is part of that same creation mechanism that God put in place...biology.

God is STILL creating Adam (Heb-mankind) in Christ Today since we STILL live at Gen 1:27. Gen 1:28-31 is prophecy.

Again you need to expand on how you derived at this. Because how I read the BIble I do not come to this conclusion, in fact I find many things that would go against this idea. But please take a few moments and explain how you derived at this.

Amen, and I do. The problem with most people is that they study the RELIGION (belief) of ancient men and NOT what the Bible actually says. Only the people of the last days, AFTER knowledge has increased, can possibly understand Genesis since many of the things revealed in Genesis are YET to be discovered by today's Science. What has been discovered AGREES in every way with Genesis IF you have the proper understanding. Amen?

Umm I would say that no you don't. Simple reading of Genesis say the universe was created in 6 days. And on the 7th day God rested. Further reading of the Bible puts the age of the world about 7000 years old (give or take a bit). It is only when you take something outside of the Bible that you start to get into other doctrines that are not clearly present in the Bible. Various old earth doctrines, Theistic evolution, etc. These all come from people taking science and trying to make the Bible fit around science... You have touted it yourself "prove lions were once vegetarians" This comes from the idea that science has never discovered a vegetarian lion...that they have always been predators. Instead of simply taking the Bible at what it says, one has to try and take what science says and fit it into the box of religion. You back it up by citing revelations and come up wtih something that says the 6 days of creation are some sort of age instead of literal days and we are in the 6th day. But this doctrine falls apart because you have no idea when to take a translation of a "day" to mean a "day" or to mean an "age" and you start to pick and choose what you want the Bible to say.

Instead the idea that in Revelations the lions will eat carrots points to the fact that God will restore things to the way He created them. Corruption will no longer be present and things will be as God intended them to be.

 

[Aman777]

Aman

John 14:16 This shows that God is STILL creating people in Christ TODAY. NO one can be saved AFTER the 6th Day, the Day of Salvation, since ALL the host of Heaven is in Heaven in Gen 2:1

*** People being created (physically or spiritually) is not THE CREATION talked about in Gen 1, that God rested from on the 7th day. Every person created physically is part of that same creation mechanism that God put in place...biology.

Really? Chapter and verse please. God "creates" only 3 times in Genesis 1 which is the outline of ALL of the rest of the Bible. God speaks and creates heaven/air and earth/ground in the beginning. ALL matter is made up of air, dust (ground without form) and water, which came forth from the air.

God creates again "every living creature that moveth" from the water on the 5th Day. Gen 1:21 God also creates mankind in His Image on the present 6th Day. Gen 1:27 Since God is STILL creating mankind in His Image which is in Christ Spiritually, the 6th Day, the Day of Salvation continues. That is WHY sinners MUST be born again Spiritually in Christ in order to inherit Heaven. When Heaven is complete with it's host (Christians) then and only then will Jesus return to give us dominion or rule over "every living creature" and to change ALL living creatures into vegetarians. Gen 1:30

>>>God is STILL creating Adam (Heb-mankind) in Christ Today since we STILL live at Gen 1:27. Gen 1:28-31 is prophecy.<<<

***Again you need to expand on how you derived at this. Because how I read the BIble I do not come to this conclusion, in fact I find many things that would go against this idea. But please take a few moments and explain how you derived at this.

Is God still creating mankind in His image which is in Christ Spiritually? YES
Has mankind EVER had dominion or rule over viruses, mosquitoes and Angels? NO. Is there anytime in History when ALL creatures ate green herbs for meat? NO. Will Jesus change Bears and Lions into vegetarians when He returns to our Planet? YES Could God look down through the Ages and see the suffering of mankind for thousands of years, in the beginning, and proclaim that it is very good? NO

Aman:>>Amen, and I do. The problem with most people is that they study the RELIGION (belief) of ancient men and NOT what the Bible actually says. Only the people of the last days, AFTER knowledge has increased, can possibly understand Genesis since many of the things revealed in Genesis are YET to be discovered by today's Science. What has been discovered AGREES in every way with Genesis IF you have the proper understanding. Amen?

*** Umm I would say that no you don't. Simple reading of Genesis say the universe was created in 6 days. And on the 7th day God rested. Further reading of the Bible puts the age of the world about 7000 years old (give or take a bit).

False. Ancient Jewish Theologians taught such and Archbishop James Ussher also taught the world was only 6k years old. This was placed in the Margin of the King James Bible for 300 years until the mid 1950s, but it is NOT Scriptural. Those who teach the same religious view today CANNOT show that God's Literal Truth in Genesis AGREES with the factual discoveries of mankind. The ONLY position they have is that there is ONE Truth for Christians and another for Science and History.

*** It is only when you take something outside of the Bible that you start to get into other doctrines that are not clearly present in the Bible. Various old earth doctrines, Theistic evolution, etc. These all come from people taking science and trying to make the Bible fit around science...

False, since I show that Scripture, Science, AND History AGREE in every way with EVERY factual discovery of man. The ONLY exception is the False ToE which is NOT a scientific Fact, but a changeable THEORY of Godless men and God tells us HOW evolutionists made their mistake, by REJECTING the Flood story, which is Literally True IF you have the proper interpretation.

***You have touted it yourself "prove lions were once vegetarians" This comes from the idea that science has never discovered a vegetarian lion...that they have always been predators. Instead of simply taking the Bible at what it says, one has to try and take what science says and fit it into the box of religion.

False, since all you have to do is read Genesis for what it says instead of what some Ancient Jewish Theologian THOUGHT it says. Jewish Theology is provably wrong since they called for the crucifixion of their own God. Jhn 19:6

*** You back it up by citing revelations and come up wtih something that says the 6 days of creation are some sort of age instead of literal days and we are in the 6th day. But this doctrine falls apart because you have no idea when to take a translation of a "day" to mean a "day" or to mean an "age" and you start to pick and choose what you want the Bible to say.

False, since the Hebrew word for Day (Yowm) means "a period of time" which can be 12 hours, 24 hours, a lifetime or an Eternity, since the 7th Day has NO end, NO evening. I am a fundamentalist Bible believing born again Spiritual Christian, and I do believe every jot and tittle of God's Holy Word. I also show that the False ToE is NOT Science but instead, is the godless view of men who rejected God's Truth of the Flood in Genesis. ll Peter 3:3-7

*** Instead the idea that in Revelations the lions will eat carrots points to the fact that God will restore things to the way He created them. Corruption will no longer be present and things will be as God intended them to be.

Amen, but this happens for only 1 thousand years and it is AFTER Jesus returns at Armageddon, NOT according to me, but according to Isaiah 11, which was Authored by the Holy Spirit from inside Isaiah. After the thousand years, our world (Universe) will be burned ll Peter 3:10 and ALL Christians will be taken to the THIRD Heaven, the New Heaven and New Earth of Rev 21:1. Amen?

 

[brotherjerry]

Really? Chapter and verse please.

Genesis 1:22 "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let the birds multiply on the earth"
Genesis 1:27 "be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth..." Being fruitful and multiplying is reproducing, it is biology in the works.

God "creates" only 3 times in Genesis 1 which is the outline of ALL of the rest of the Bible. God speaks and creates heaven/air and earth/ground in the beginning. [/quote]

And God creates more than 3 times...sorry to say.
Day 1: God creates light. Time.
Day 2: God creates heavens by dividing the expanse
Day 3: Causes earth to appear, creates vegetation
Day 4: Creates stars, sun and moon
Day 5: fish and birds
Day 6: all other animals, man

Now you could argue that the expanse on day 2 and the earth on day 3 are not really creation but simply moving things that were created to be moved around so other stuff is there. But even if we remove those two we have 5 days in which something was created from nothing.

ALL matter is made up of air, dust (ground without form) and water, which came forth from the air.

This is not true...dust is not ground without form, dust is just tiny particles of many different things, including dead skin and other biologics. And it is all made up of small molecules that do have specific shapes and makeups.

Since God is STILL creating mankind in His Image which is in Christ Spiritually, the 6th Day, the Day of Salvation continues

Ok so you have said this and still have not expanded upon it at all. How do you determine what the day of salvation is Biblically. And how do you equate that to us being in a 6th day age?

Has mankind EVER had dominion or rule over viruses, mosquitoes and Angels? NO. Is there anytime in History when ALL creatures ate green herbs for meat? NO. Will Jesus change Bears and Lions into vegetarians when He returns to our Planet? YES Could God look down through the Ages and see the suffering of mankind for thousands of years, in the beginning, and proclaim that it is very good? NO

See here you go again...putting science before the Bible.

Has mankind ever had dominion or rule over the things you mentioned? Yes from the time he was created until the time he ate of the fruit. And one can even say into today. Man is the most advanced, evolved species on the planet. We are the only species that could destroy the entire planet if we decided to push a few buttons. No other creature has built the a computer to connect to the forum that you and I are currently visiting. God created the animals and when Adam was in the garden a suitable helper was sought and none were found, there were no animals that were mans equal, until God created Eve. There is still no equal to man except woman.
Is there any time in Hisotry when all creatures ate green herbs for meat? Yes from the time they were created until man ate of the fruit. One can look at just about any carnivore around and see that they also can and do eat vegitation today. They can survive on nothing but plants. It is not a stretch to determine that plants were animals first food, even in an evolutionary perspective because plants did not require special development in order to eat. You did not have to develop hunting skills to hunt as a predator, claws, depth perception, canine teeth, etc to hunt plants. But as food supplies changed so too would animals to adapt to new surroundings. Genetic traits that already existed brought to the forefront like our canine teeth.
Will Jesus change bears and such...Yes God will restore the planet and all in it to the state it was before man ate the fruit.
Could God proclaim it as good? Are you saying that God lied? Of course what He created was good...that does not mean that it will remain good. If you made a cake today you would say it was good. But if you let it sit for 3 months, I bet you will not say that it is good then will you. This was a silly question to ask.

False. Ancient Jewish Theologians taught such and Archbishop James Ussher also taught the world was only 6k years old. This was placed in the Margin of the King James Bible for 300 years until the mid 1950s, but it is NOT Scriptural. Those who teach the same religious view today CANNOT show that God's Literal Truth in Genesis AGREES with the factual discoveries of mankind. The ONLY position they have is that there is ONE Truth for Christians and another for Science and History.

So you agree then that you doctrine comes from you trying to get the Bible to fit into what you see coming from science. Let me say this...the "God's Literal Truth" in the Bible could cares a hill of beans about the "factual discoveries of mankind". I can tell you that if you were to ask me if I believe the Bible or the "factual discoveries of mankind" I will take the Bible every time.

False, since I show that Scripture, Science, AND History AGREE in every way with EVERY factual discovery of man

Problem is you start with science. I start with Scripture.

False, since the Hebrew word for Day (Yowm) means "a period of time" which can be 12 hours, 24 hours, a lifetime or an Eternity, since the 7th Day has NO end, NO evening.

Context is king when it comes to interpreting what words mean. And while you are right Yown can mean a period of time it is context that give you what it is talking about like "back in the day", or "in the day of king so and so". We do not have that in Genesis 1 however. Day is a 24 hour period of time because we are given "it was evening and then morning". And while you are right we are given no evening to the 7th day, even by your standard we would be in the 7th day...where God is doing no more universe creating. But what we do have is in Gen 1:31 an end of the 6th day.

 

[BobRyan]

No so UNLESS you can show us Scripturally of a time in the past when Bears, Wolves and Lions were vegetarians, which you cannot. Isa 11:6-7 Amen?

Genesis 1 says it. Do I need National Geographic to go and confirm that God was right before I believe Him?

Not if I am a Christian.

 

[Aman777]

*** Genesis 1:22 "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let the birds multiply on the earth"
Genesis 1:27 "be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth..." Being fruitful and multiplying is reproducing, it is biology in the works. [/quote]

You are confusing the command given to animals with the command given to "born again Christians". To be "created in God's Image" is to be created Eternally in Christ, and telling others of the Power of God unto Salvation, in order to multiply Christians, has NOTHING to do with biology.

Aman:>>God "creates" only 3 times in Genesis 1 which is the outline of ALL of the rest of the Bible. God speaks and creates heaven/air and earth/ground in the beginning.

***And God creates more than 3 times...sorry to say.
Day 1: God creates light. Time.

Since Jesus is the Light of the 1st Day, and He was NOT created, but came forth from within the invisible Spirit of God, you are not correct. Also. God made the Stars to provide time for mankind in our Cosmos on the FOURTH Day Gen 1:14

***Day 2: God creates heavens by dividing the expanse

What you call the "expanse" is the solid hollow firmament which protected Adam's Earth from the water which totally surrounded it. Gen 1:6-8

*** Day 3: Causes earth to appear, creates vegetation

True, but you forgot about man who was made BEFORE the plants, herbs and Trees which GREW on the 3rd Day. Gen 2:4-7

*** Day 4: Creates stars, sun and moon

Amen.

*** Day 5: fish and birds

True, but you forgot about "every living creature that moveth" which the waters brought forth on the 5th Day. Gen 1:21

*** Day 6: all other animals, man

True for the beast of the field and birds, which Adam named. Gen 2:19 Adam was NOT formed on the 6th Day but on the 3rd Day. He was "created in God's image" or born again Spiritually on the 6th Day but that was AFTER Cain killed Abel. Gen 5:1-2 It was also AFTER Eve was built from his rib on the 6th Day. Gen 2:22 This shows that man was NOT created Spiritually until the 6th Day.

*** Now you could argue that the expanse on day 2 and the earth on day 3 are not really creation but simply moving things that were created to be moved around so other stuff is there. But even if we remove those two we have 5 days in which something was created from nothing.

UnScriptural, as Albert Einstein learned some 2k years AFTER the Bible was written. The idea that God "created" from nothing is refuted by this verse:

Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

What Albert learned is that Energy and Matter are two sides of the same coin. God spoke and changed the Energy of His world 1Ti 6:16 into Matter. Jesus did the SAME thing at the Big Bang when He changed Matter back into Energy, which cooled and became our Cosmos on the 3rd Day. Gen 2:4

*** Genesis 1 however. Day is a 24 hour period of time because we are given "it was evening and then morning". And while you are right we are given no evening to the 7th day, even by your standard we would be in the 7th day...where God is doing no more universe creating. But what we do have is in Gen 1:31 an end of the 6th day.

UnScriptural UNLESS you can show us WHEN mankind had dominion or rule over EVERY living creature including ANGELS. 1Co 6:3 We will NOT have dominion over Angels, Mosquitoes or Viruses until AFTER Jesus Returns to this Planet at the end of the present 6th Day. Gen 1:28 Amen?

 

[Aman777]

Genesis 1 says it. Do I need National Geographic to go and confirm that God was right before I believe Him?

Not if I am a Christian.

Amen, since Christians are those who believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ by "BLIND Faith". However, everything else in Scripture is supported by the AGREEMENT of Scripture, Science, and History IF you have the proper interpretation. Amen?

 

[brotherjerry]

You are confusing the command given to animals with the command given to "born again Christians". To be "created in God's Image" is to be created Eternally in Christ, and telling others of the Power of God unto Salvation, in order to multiply Christians, has NOTHING to do with biology.

You asked me to prove that the mechanisms for procreation and biology were put in place by God...I did that. Creating "Christians" did not happen until several thousand years later...about 2000 years ago.
You are confusing days with ages.

Since Jesus is the Light of the 1st Day, and He was NOT created, but came forth from within the invisible Spirit of God, you are not correct. Also. God made the Stars to provide time for mankind in our Cosmos on the FOURTH Day Gen 1:14

Hmmm funny...vs 5 says that God called the light day not Jesus. And he called the darkness night...then there was evening and morning...one day.
God created the day first. Christ was already created, in Gen 1 God is creating our universe...it starts with time.

What you call the "expanse" is the solid hollow firmament which protected Adam's Earth from the water which totally surrounded it. Gen 1:6-8

Solid and hollow? Now I know you are living in fantasy land
And funny thing is...outside of the "expanse" and inside the "expanse" is nothing but water. Vs 9 says says "let the waters below the expanse be gathered into one place, and let dry land appear" So before dry land appeared....nothing but water.

True, but you forgot about man who was made BEFORE the plants, herbs and Trees which GREW on the 3rd Day. Gen 2:4-7

Ummm no. Do not be confused with the idea of two different creation stories because there is not. Man was not made before the plants, man was the last thing made (Gen 1 and Gen 2 back that up)

True, but you forgot about "every living creature that moveth" which the waters brought forth on the 5th Day. Gen 1:21

Which is speaking of creatures that live in water....so yes there water borne mammals, and potentially some reptiles.

True for the beast of the field and birds, which Adam named. Gen 2:19 Adam was NOT formed on the 6th Day but on the 3rd Day. He was "created in God's image" or born again Spiritually on the 6th Day but that was AFTER Cain killed Abel. Gen 5:1-2 It was also AFTER Eve was built from his rib on the 6th Day. Gen 2:22 This shows that man was NOT created Spiritually until the 6th Day.

Adam named animals created in the garden...Gen 1 says Adam was created on the 6th Day. Gen 2 supports this as well as the bulk of Gen 2 is creating the garden of Eden and NOT another creation account.

UnScriptural, as Albert Einstein learned some 2k years AFTER the Bible was written. The idea that God "created" from nothing is refuted by this verse:

Resorting to a scientist again I see?

UnScriptural UNLESS you can show us WHEN mankind had dominion or rule over EVERY living creature including ANGELS. 1Co 6:3 We will NOT have dominion over Angels, Mosquitoes or Viruses until AFTER Jesus Returns to this Planet at the end of the present 6th Day. Gen 1:28 Amen?

Um again very very wrong. In Genesis 1 we are told repeatedly "There was evening and there was morning" This signifies a 24 hour day. PERIOD. That is very scriptural. You saying that it is not a 24 hour day is what is unscriptural and you have yet to show it to be otherwise.

And sorry I have already proven using the Bible that man had dominion over ever living creatures up until the point that man ate of the fruit. Then dominion was lost. Satan became ruler of this world. You have not proven anything else except to show verses where God restores things to the way it was in the creation.

 

[BobRyan]

Amen, since Christians are those who believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ by "BLIND Faith". However, everything else in Scripture is supported by the AGREEMENT of Scripture, Science, and History IF you have the proper interpretation. Amen?

Right - never believe anything the Bible says unless atheists writing for National Geo will also sign up for it. That way we are "safe" and only doing what an evolved-evolving-evolution god would want.

 

[BobRyan]

UnScriptural, as Albert Einstein learned some 2k years AFTER the Bible was written. The idea that God "created" from nothing is refuted by this verse:

Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

What Albert learned is that Energy and Matter are two sides of the same coin. God spoke and changed the Energy of His world 1Ti 6:16 into Matter. Jesus did the SAME thing at the Big Bang when He changed Matter back into Energy, which cooled and became our Cosmos on the 3rd Day. Gen 2:4

Those are interesting fictions that even Albert would not agree with.

Interchangeability between matter and energy in a universe that already has the fabric of space-time is the most Einstein could address.

But as it turns out - with the Big Bang theory the atheists pretty much "bought the farm" on the subject of time, space, matter, energy --- ALL coming from NOTHING.

Game over.

Thanks for playing.

 

[BobRyan]

Sinai happens about 2600 years after creation week - and the 7 days of creation week were long done - long completed.

Ex 20
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

What kind of days?

Ex 20:
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work,
...
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Notice that "God's Sabbath" is man's Sabbath -- the 7 days of man working and resting are the 7 days of God - man resting on "the Sabbath of the Lord" not "the Sabbath of man" --

the point is that it is legal code - the same unit of time --- days. And all 7 days completed in Genesis 1:2-2:4.

Plants created on day 3.
Man created on day 6

And the command in Ex 20 to work the same time period and rest the same time period.

 

[brotherjerry]

Thanks for bringing that one up Bob....I had been thinking about it but just had not put it down yet.

 

[Aman777]

You asked me to prove that the mechanisms for procreation and biology were put in place by God...I did that. Creating "Christians" did not happen until several thousand years later...about 2000 years ago.
You are confusing days with ages.

False. I did NOT ask you to prove the mechanisms for procreation and biology. I posted:

Aman:>>You are confusing the command given to animals with the command given to "born again Christians". To be "created in God's Image" is to be created Eternally in Christ, and telling others of the Power of God unto Salvation, in order to multiply Christians, has NOTHING to do with biology.<<<

You are entitled to your opinion but NOT your Scriptural facts.

*** Hmmm funny...vs 5 says that God called the light day not Jesus. And he called the darkness night...then there was evening and morning...one day. God created the day first. Christ was already created, in Gen 1 God is creating our universe...it starts with time.

Verse 5 IS in Gen 1. ALSO, Jesus was NOT created, but has existed forever. ALSO, our universe, the 2nd Heaven was made the THIRD Day. Gen 2:4 ALSO Jesus is called the Day here:

1Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

***Solid and hollow? Now I know you are living in fantasy land
And funny thing is...outside of the "expanse" and inside the "expanse" is nothing but water. Vs 9 says says "let the waters below the expanse be gathered into one place, and let dry land appear" So before dry land appeared....nothing but water.

The hollow firmament, which God called Heaven Gen 1:8 was made the 2nd Day. On the 3rd Day God took some of the water from under the firmament and put it inside the firmament. God called the noise He heard "Seas" which in Hebrew means "a roaring". With your understanding WHY did the water Roar?

Gen 1:9 ¶ And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

***Ummm no. Do not be confused with the idea of two different creation stories because there is not. Man was not made before the plants, man was the last thing made (Gen 1 and Gen 2 back that up)

False, since Gen 2:4-7 shows that man was made BEFORE the plants, herbs and rain. He was also made before the Trees which GREW on the 3rd Day. Gen 1:12 AND Gen 2:8-9 AFTER man was made "every living creature that moveth" was created from the water. Gen 1:21 That is TWO separate creations, one on the 3rd Day by the Lord God and one on the 5th Day by the Trinity.

***Which is speaking of creatures that live in water....so yes there water borne mammals, and potentially some reptiles.

False, since Gen 1:21 AND Science agree that "every living creature that moveth" was created and brought forth from the water on Day 5. The cells within ALL living creatures CANNOT live without liquid water.

*** Adam named animals created in the garden...Gen 1 says Adam was created on the 6th Day. Gen 2 supports this as well as the bulk of Gen 2 is creating the garden of Eden and NOT another creation account.

Adam was made a living soul on the 3rd Day BEFORE the plants, herbs, and Trees Grew. Gen 1:12 shows that they GREW on the 3rd Day. The creatures made from the ground on the 6th Day were made AND Adam named them. Gen 2:19 With your understanding, HOW did Adam name them since you post that he was made AFTER the animals, which were made at the beginning of the 6th Day.

*** Resorting to a scientist again I see?

It's because I support what I write with the AGREEMENT of Scripture, Science and History. You try to convince us that there is ONE Truth for Scripture and another Truth for the factual discoveries of Science. It doesn't compute.

*** Um again very very wrong. In Genesis 1 we are told repeatedly "There was evening and there was morning" This signifies a 24 hour day. PERIOD. That is very scriptural. You saying that it is not a 24 hour day is what is unscriptural and you have yet to show it to be otherwise.

Strong's Concordance shows that the word "Day" is the word Yowm in Hebrew. Yowm is used in Scripture to indicate 12 hours, 24 hours, day, time, year, continually, always and alway:

Authorized Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 2287
AV — day 2008, time 64, chronicles + 01697 37, daily 44, ever 18, year 14,continually 10, when 10, as 10, while 8, full 8 always 4, whole 4, alway 4, misc44

*** And sorry I have already proven using the Bible that man had dominion over ever living creatures up until the point that man ate of the fruit. Then dominion was lost. Satan became ruler of this world. You have not proven anything else except to show verses where God restores things to the way it was in the creation.

The creation of the perfect 3rd Heaven continues today. It will NOT happen until AFTER Jesus returns to Earth and changes EVERY living creature into vegetarians. Gen 1:30 and Isa 11:7
Amen?

 

[Aman777]

Right - never believe anything the Bible says unless atheists writing for National Geo will also sign up for it. That way we are "safe" and only doing what an evolved-evolving-evolution god would want.

No need for sarcasm. A better reply would be supporting Scripture for your ancient religious beliefs. Amen?

 

[Aman777]

Sinai happens about 2600 years after creation week - and the 7 days of creation week were long done - long completed.

Ex 20
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

What kind of days?

Ex 20:
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work,
...
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Notice that "God's Sabbath" is man's Sabbath -- the 7 days of man working and resting are the 7 days of God - man resting on "the Sabbath of the Lord" not "the Sabbath of man" --

the point is that it is legal code - the same unit of time --- days. And all 7 days completed in Genesis 1:2-2:4.

Plants created on day 3.
Man created on day 6

And the command in Ex 20 to work the same time period and rest the same time period.

False, UNLESS you can show us HOW God rested from ALL of His work in the past. God will NOT rest (cease creating) until His creation is "finished" (brought to perfection) and filled with ALL of the host of Heaven which includes ALL Christians. Gen 2:1 Then and ONLY then, God will rest (cease) from ALL of His work of creating because Heaven will then be made perfect and filled with it's perfect host. Amen?