The Two Beasts and the harlot of Revelation Explained

[cgaviria]

First of all Peter's epistle is not pointing to Rome.

Read it again........



Firstly Peter preaches to his Semitic brothers and sisters who still remained in Babylon Iraq after their captivity, that is......

Babylon was the most heavily occupied Jewish city in the world from about 400 B.C. till the 10th century A.D. Only a remnant returned to Judea. What better place for the apostle Peter to go to preach to the lost sheep of Israel than in Babylon?

There is enough archeological evidence to prove that Babylon was still inhabited until 2nd century AD

Read the book "Late Achaemenid and Hellenistic Babylon" by T. BOIY, page 188

Here is the link of that book.
http://books.google.com.ph/books?id=1frplXFGf4sC&pg=PA188&lpg=PA188&dq=babylon+inhabited+first+century&source=bl&ots=Tmxo_S7mCD&sig=OyQ5LkLA0oCWa7ycJkQB9JoWxWA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=1IZRUZ66AonriAeu1IGwDA&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=babylon inhabited first century&f=false

Therefore 1 Peter 5:13 talks about literal Babylon. Not Rome

I would sincerely state that both of you brothers are wrong. It is not Jerusalem and neither is it Rome.

The most important thing to note accordign to Peter's epistles is this........

This is the most popular proof text used by Roman Catholics to establish that the apostle Peter was writing from his residence at Rome. For example, the Catholic Encyclopedia states, “St. Peter's First Epistle was written almost undoubtedly from Rome…"Catholic Answers states, “Babylon is a code-word for Rome." Well, is there a Biblical basis for this interpretation? Is there an infallible “Tradition” that supplies this information about Peter’s use of “code words”? Below are some voices not normally heard by Roman Catholics.



And another voice....



This is the main hiccup that many who erroneously try and equate Rome with Babylon intended in Peter's epistles. The fact is that the Mystery (unknown to the apostle) Babylon could not have been the Ancient Babylon in Peter's epistles, especially after he espouses it such a high blessing and regard. Rome at the time of Peter's epistle was an enemy of Christainity and would not hold such a high regard and respect as many of Rome who claim Peter's succession would have you to believe.



Further more the language that Peter used is vastly different to John's. Peter was a straight shooter, as John in Revelation was symbolic and cryptic. The Babylon mentioned in Peter's epistles is not the mysterious Babylon mentioned in Revelation of John.



I go one step further than the voices mentioned, in that Peter was well aware of Old Testament prophesy that the highway mentioned in......



Peter knew that to save his Jewish people, he needed to comply with the formulea which included the Assyrian people's in Babylon Iraq and so he endeavoured to setup the Assyrian church of the East in Babylon in the hope to fulfilling prophesy and at the same time be a blessing to his Jewish people to be the third, meaning joining part onto the handy work of God the Assyrians. This highway was setup by Peter through the Church of the East located in Iraq.

Here are their successions........

According to Church legend, the Apostleship of Edessa (Chaldea) is alleged to have been founded by Shimun Keepa (Saint Peter) (33–64),[7] Thoma Shlikha, (Saint Thomas),[8] Tulmay (St. Bartholomew the Apostle) [8] and of course Mar Addai, (St. Thaddeus) of the Seventy disciples. Saint Thaddeus was martyred c.66 AD.

Edessa era

• 1 Mar Aggai (c.66-81). First successor to the Apostleship of his spiritual director the Apostle Saint Thaddeus, one of the Seventy disciples. He in turn was the spiritual director of Mar Mari.
• 2 Palut of Edessa (c.81-87) renamed Mar Mari (c.87 – c.121). Second successor to the Apostleship of Mar Addai of the Seventy disciples. During his days a bishopric was formally established at Seleucia-Ctesiphon.
• 3 Abris (Abres or Ahrasius) (121–148 AD) Judah Kyriakos relocates Jerusalem Church to Edessa in 136 AD
• 4 Abraham (Abraham I of Kashker) (148–171 AD)
• 5 Yaʿqob I (Mar Yacob I) (c. 172–190 AD)
• 6 Ebid M’shikha (191–203)[8]
• 7 Ahadabui (Ahha d'Aboui) (204–220 AD) - First bishop of the East to get statikon as Catholicos. Ordained in 231 AD in Jerusalem Council.
• 8 Shahaloopa of Kashker (Shahlufa) (220–266 AD)
  • Bar Aggai (267–c. 280)

The first church located in Edessa Iraq and from the Jewish virtual library.....

You're probably right. I wasn't arguing that he was saying Rome, I was saying that it might be, and it was certainly not talking about Jerusalem.

 

[Berean777]

You're probably right. I wasn't arguing that he was saying Rome, I was saying that it might be, and it was certainly not talking about Jerusalem.

I concur, because Peter was a straight shooter, he would call a spade a spade. On the other hand John is a cryptic and he would use symbolism to hide the identity.

The writings of Peter and the Revelation of John are two generations apart. The epistle of Peter is written to the early establishment of the church much before 70AD. On the other hand the Revelation of John is written post 70AD, around 95AD. Since John starts off by saying that he is an exile on a remote Roman prison colony on the island of Patmos.

Since the temple at Jerusalem when Peter and other apostles wrote was still standing, because none would comment on the most important Jewish shrine that fell in 70AD. On the other hand John is not surprised by the fall of the 1st beast and false prophet, because he was all too familiar with the events of 70AD, being now at the age of 90. So what John does is to cryptically hide the identity of the 1st beast that came up from the sea (craddle of civilization in the middle east). He was also familiar with the false prophet, but then John was totally dumb found by the mysterious women that rode the second lamb/Christ like beast and required the angel on two occasions to take him to that distant place in the Spirit and to also spell it out for him. Also the mysterious women is located in the wilderness which is outside of the sea of civilisation located in the middle east. Yet he cryptically calls her mystery babylon following in the footsteps of the fallen 1st beast and false prophet who went down in 70AD. Notice it gives life to the image of the first beast by persecuting the saints all over again, just like the 1st beast and the false pharisical religious prophet/system.

So the mystery babylon of John's revelation is not the babylon of Peter's epistle and this new player is unfamiliar territory to John and therefore points to Rome and not Jerusalem.

The babylon of Peter's epistle is neither Jerusalem or Rome and is another member church joined to the church in Jerusalem at the time of his writing.

 

[Berean777]

Revelation was written before 70AD, And Peter was writing from the HOME of Mark and Silvanus

John was exiled on the island of Patmos after the events of 70AD and in his book he already declares the fall of the 1st beast and the false pharisical religious prophet/system.

Notice mystery babylon the great encompasses all nations and tongues and this would agree with the word Catholic meaning all nations. So Rome would represent that greatness. Also when mystery babylon is mentioned John tells us this riddle....

"The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: "

Notice John uses the past tense verb SAW which references the 1st beast that was and is NOT! So John already has disclosed the fall of Jerusalem as a past tense event. Since Satan was imprisoned in the bottomless pitt at the fall of Jerusalem on 70AD, then we see later in the future and beyond John's discernment, another christ like beast with a mother harlot who is established in the image of the 1st beast, by continuing his legacy, until she too goes into perdition at the battle of Gog and Magog which now encompases the world. Then at this point Satan is killed by being thrown in the lake of fire where the 1st beast and false prophet were killed. So this leaves us with the spiritual battle of Armegeddon that was located in the middle eastern region that saw the fall of the 1st beast and false prophet in 70AD.

 

[cgaviria]

I concur, because Peter was a straight shooter, he would call a spade a spade. On the other hand John is a cryptic and he would use symbolism to hide the identity.

The writings of Peter and the Revelation of John are two generations apart. The epistle of Peter is written to the early establishment of the church much before 70AD. On the other hand the Revelation of John is written post 70AD, around 95AD. Since John starts off by saying that he is an exile on a remote Roman prison colony on the island of Patmos.

Since the temple at Jerusalem when Peter and other apostles wrote was still standing, because none would comment on the most important Jewish shrine that fell in 70AD. On the other hand John is not surprised by the fall of the 1st beast and false prophet, because he was all too familiar with the events of 70AD, being now at the age of 90. So what John does is to cryptically hide the identity of the 1st beast that came up from the sea (craddle of civilization in the middle east). He was also familiar with the false prophet, but then John was totally dumb found by the mysterious women that rode the second lamb/Christ like beast and required the angel on two occasions to take him to that distant place in the Spirit and to also spell it out for him. Also the mysterious women is located in the wilderness which is outside of the sea of civilisation located in the middle east. Yet he cryptically calls her mystery babylon following in the footsteps of the fallen 1st beast and false prophet who went down in 70AD. Notice it gives life to the image of the first beast by persecuting the saints all over again, just like the 1st beast and the false pharisical religious prophet/system.

So the mystery babylon of John's revelation is not the babylon of Peter's epistle and this new player is unfamiliar territory to John and therefore points to Rome and not Jerusalem.

The babylon of Peter's epistle is neither Jerusalem or Rome and is another member church joined to the church in Jerusalem at the time of his writing.

Who are you saying was the beast of the sea, who is the harlot, and who is the beast of the earth?

 

[Berean777]

Who are you saying was the beast of the sea, who is the harlot, and who is the beast of the earth?

Read the link below

<a href="http://www.christianforums.com/thre...ation-explained.7920961/page-10#post-69001432">The Two Beasts and the harlot of Revelation Explained</a>

Beast of the earth is located in the wilderness, meaning a place far away from the middle eastern region. That is why John was taken to that far place in the Spirit where he saw the 2nd christ like beast and the mother harlot who sat on him.

The beast of the sea is the 1st beast and false pharisical religious prophet/system that was at one time led by Paul in the persecution of the apostles.

The harlot has many daughters that came out of her. This cannot be said of the false prophet who rode the 1st beast. The false pharisical religious prophet/system was temple worship centred. On the other hand Rome had daughters after the great scishm of the 11th century and the reformation of the 16th century.

From Rome came out the following daughters......

1. Restorationists
2. Anabaptists
3. Eastern rite Catholic
4. Protestant
5. Anglecanism

It doesn't mean that the daughters of the harlot are harlots as well, who follow in her footsteps. These daughters could be faithful to Christ and unlike the whorish mother of the past.

Also the sea represents the craddle of civilisation that is located in the middle eastern region and the earth points to the wilderness outside of the sea.

 

[cgaviria]

Read the link below

<a href="http://www.christianforums.com/thre...ation-explained.7920961/page-10#post-69001432">The Two Beasts and the harlot of Revelation Explained</a>

Beast of the earth is located in the wilderness, meaning a place far away from the middle eastern region. That is why John was taken to that far place in the Spirit where he saw the 2nd christ like beast and the mother harlot who sat on him.

The beast of the sea is the 1st beast and false pharisical religious prophet/system that was at one time led by Paul in the persecution of the apostles.

The harlot has many daughters that came out of her. This cannot be said of the false prophet who rode the 1st beast. The false pharisical religious prophet/system was temple worship centred. On the other hand Rome had daughters after the great scishm of the 11th century and the reformation of the 16th century.

From Rome came out the following daughters......

1. Restorationists
2. Anabaptists
3. Eastern rite Catholic
4. Protestant
5. Anglecanism

It doesn't mean that the daughters of the harlot are harlots as well, who follow in her footsteps. These daughters could be faithful to Christ and unlike the whorish mother of the past.

Also the sea represents the craddle of civilisation that is located in the middle eastern region and the earth points to the wilderness outside of the sea.

Nah, this is a really mixed up and seemingly arbitrary interpretation. Beasts refer to nations. They always have, just like the beasts of Daniel. They referred to actual nations and empires. So you're beast of the sea and beast of the earth interpretations are already way off. And the beast of the earth is also called the "false prophet", but it is in fact a nation that acts as a very powerful nation that deceives the world with its own way of life and philosophies. I would suggest rereading my original thread on this.

 

[Berean777]

Ok, suit yourself!

 

[Abram's Awakening]

All of you open your Bible and read Jerimiah chapter 23...

Take some time to gather your thoughts-then read it again...

 

[Abram's Awakening]

What? Don't tell me you like to pick and choose from the cafeteria! You guys have been wasting your precious time stealing His Words from each other- just to either prove yourselves right or others wrong in the eyes of whom? You guys are making me sick!

You are like dogs chasing each others tails!

WAKE UP!!!!!

When are going to come to terms that you have believed and lived a lie based on what either others have told you? Or that you have relied on your own understanding?

Christ is here for you as individuals to reconcile yourselves to Him!

Do it!

And stop wasting what little time you have left with mindless controversies and meaningless debates!!!

 

[Abram's Awakening]

Better the rebuke of a bondservant-a true friend, than the deceitful kisses of an enemy...

 

[Berean777]

I put my shame before the Lord daily. I look up to him to make me selfless, though easier said than done, I have hope that he will succeed in me, and will deliver me from my own wicked ways.

Thankyou for your rebuke! Let that be on top of my own daily rebuke of myself.

 

[Abram's Awakening]

The beast with two horns like a lamb and spoke as a dragon...

I picture the innocence of a "Christ-like" figure with two horns. Horns can be depicted as "heads and rulers", they can also be depicted as prophetic messages(Like the trumpets)... The head of this beast shows itself to be Christian(like a lamb); The two horns are an image portrayed by the head which speaks two messages. These can be: "Peace and Prosperity"; or they can also be "Liberty and Equality". This is very important to recognize...

This beast speaks as a dragon...

A dragon's speech is a depiction of a forceful, lying tongue that parts truth(like that of a serpents tongue split at the end). A powerful deceptive serpent with its "wings in the wind"-like the prince of the power of the air...

The dragon speaks a deception that forces the majority of mankind to believe a terrible lie...

An ancient lie...

Now consider for one moment, you were to take the origins of Christianity during a period of apostasy and exile-and look at it as you would a cup, or better yet a "Holy Grail" that was filled with the living waters that Jesus Christ had given us as a way for our souls to find salvation-even eternal life...

Now, say for a moment, that while He was away-an enemy came in and dropped a tiny bit of poison in that cup. What would happen? The whole cup would become poison. Generations of Christianity, its teachings, its doctrines-would be overcome and ruined. And so would the souls of those poor men, women, and children who put their faith-even their lives- into that cup of poison...

Thus it has been so...

The beast is our great nation and the ends of the earth that speaks deceitful messages of peace uniting a harlot who has dined and fornicated with all the great kingdoms and nations before it-Christianity-Catholics and Protestants! These are the daughters of Jerusalem...

Who am I?

I'm just the voice of one crying in the wilderness, "MAKE STRAIGHT THE WAYS OF OUR LORD!"

A true Christian-even a true jew, is not one who looks as such in an outward manner. For he or she is as such inwardly; To such an extent that we are like aliens in another world longing to go home...

We are so few, and we know the truth-as the Lord Himself has taught us. But the world won't hear us...

I've given you guys the answers and the insight...

This debate should be over...

 

[Abram's Awakening]

I can understand why you would think this way. So lets try another approach...

Ok. Consider the time frame. Consider the role of Babylon and it's connection with Jerusalem. We're talking about a kingdom that hasn't fallen yet. We're also talking about a HUGE religious superpower that has fornicated and mixed herself with not only Babylon, but all the nations up to this day in age. In doing so, she commits adultery against the Word of God-even Christ the bridegroom.

It says she was drunk with the blood of the saints...

Now many would take this in a literal fashion, beings that they crucified the Lord and murdered the prophets. And I understand that.

But lets try the spiritual meaning behind "blood" then you can cross-reference various other places in scripture and see how it matches up.

Jesus told His disciples, "My blood is true drink, he who drinks of my blood will attain everlasting life."

He was talking about His Word...

Just as The Door, The Way, The Living Waters, The Light, The Seed, etc.

Now looking back to the first trumpet: "They're was hail and fire, mixed with blood." This depicts false teachings(fire) accompanied with evil(hail) that had mixed itself with the Word of God(blood). This is the prophetic period of time where Gnosticism forms as the apostasy begins and we find a long road to spiritual exile.

Getting back on subject. This harlot mixes herself with nations, drunk with the "blood" of the saints.

The mother harlot is Christianity. She is also the apostate Israel. She has many daughters of harlotry who have followed her lead. Christianity has come so far-but only with the help of the nations she has committed adultery with. During apostasy and exile, she is found to fall so far from God-while drawing closer to the world, and incorporating its false teachings and corrupt ways into Christian doctrine and theology.

Therefore she is drunk with the blood of the saints-being the Word-and she intoxicates the world with her abominations and blasphemies by teaching a delusion of their minds; and brainwashing the masses to believe lies.

Now it does sound harsh, and I hate to say it-but it's true. When I came to the realization of these things I was sick for quite some time...

And then I started asking questions like, "If this modern day Christianity is false-who, what, and where are the "true Christians?"

Many aren't found in a church for this reason. But that doesn't mean He isn't going to call them out- because He most certainly is...

Beast from the land is Egypt. Beast from the sea is the melting pot of nations known as the USA. The Harlot is modern-day Christianity.

Now Im sure you'll ask where Babylon comes into play. Right?

Babylon is in fact a combination of the worlds two leading superpowers as a standing empire that rules, and as a religious and cultural influence on the world. The U.S. and Christianity...

 

[Abram's Awakening]

During the prophetic apostasy, the children of Israel will always be under the rule of a mammon king and in bondage with another entity in exile of two-fold meaning. Babylon under rule, and Egypt under bondage.

How does Egypt and Sodom correspond, you might ask?

Egypt and Sodom were charged by the fallen angels to pursue the children of Israel-as they have to this day...

Ever wonder why gay marriages are acceptable now among Christians?

You can thank the demons of Sodom for that...

Ever wonder why there's a pyramid with an "All seeing eye" on the back of our one dollar bills? You can thank the fallen one's of Egypt for that...

I can go on, but I think you get the point...

All these lead up to the formation of the Antichrist. Which, is in fact, Secular Humanism...

This is the outcome of our Apostasy and Exile among Babylon, Egypt, and an ancient deception that leads the world to believe they're actually worshipping God and His Son, Jesus Christ...

Lucifer is cunning...

 

[Berean777]

A house divided against itself cannot stand.

Christianity has throughout the ages stood the test of time, through strength in numbers united.

Whether Christianity has errors in doctrine or not, they as a church preach Christ. Therefore Christianity didn't come by one man alone, but the body as a whole sustains it. What you are saying is for people to leave their churches, why?

Why would scattered sheep who disperse from their church congregation be better of? In fact they are now weaker because they are scattered.

A church is there to unite the body of Christ. The reason why there are 33,000 plus denominational churches is to make it hard for the enemy to seek and destroy. Jesus wants this and this is how we defend against an enemy that wants to divide and conquer.

In fact the 33,000 church denomination are like cells that operate independently with Christ as their head. The enemy cannot defeat the head because the cells will grow. In fact Rome was defeated through this cell like church structure which absorbed the super power of its time within the church structure as a branch / independent cell.

America, Russia, China, Asia, Africa have also been conquered without an army and without physical weapons. Christianity is a force to be reckoned with and those nations who are armed to the teeth like Rome was, will also be conquered from within.

Let me give you an example. Take for example the Zionist front to world domination through deceit, force and armies who want Christianity to be dispersed. When they try their best to disperse the church by telling people to betray American or to leave their church cell, then they who are the synagogue of satan just like the Romans will come kneeling before Christ and they will be the ones who will form more church denominations/cells who will lead the spiritual war. Mark my words this will happen.

Any enemy that comes against Christianity will be defeated without physical weapons and will be absorbed into Christianity and not only that but they will lead the fight.

People who try to disperse the church are making war with God and his Christ.

 

[Abram's Awakening]

Im not saying to leave the church. I'm not saying they're all false-though the majority of them are. I'm not saying that those which are false are evil- they're misled and have been blinded under delusions brought on by deception. If anything, I see them in a deep spiritual sleep and I want to wake them up...

The Lord says there will be a gathering and a reconciliation. He is going to call those of His choosing out of these Churches to the rebuilding of Zion.

Im using the weapons the Lord has given me to war with the Satan and destroy his works by revealing his deception...

And this war has been going on for quite some time...

We're on the same side, don't get the wrong idea...

 

[Berean777]

Today we have a war against Christianity through Zionist media that tries to corupt the body on one front and on another use forces.

Let me tell you a secret about Christianity. Zionist can have all the money in the world and control all the standing armies of the world and have all the corrupting media outlets, but all these physical forces will be crushed not in anger but through Christ they will be rendered useless.

Are the Zionist stronger than the strongest global empire that was Rome? Hardly, but how was Rome defeated by Christ?

The Zionist are living in God's matrix and every move they think they have won brings them closer to checkmate. Tell me who has won chest against God?

No one, not even the father of lies could come close to challenging God and his Christ.

A message to the Zionist would be is resistance is futile, therefore save yourselves and come to Christ now.

 

[Abram's Awakening]

Everything I say directly corresponds with the Word of God. In other words, everything I learned-I learned from Him.

I've been writing and studying the Word of God for over 20 years now on my own. He kept from me from the churches until I could understand why. This whole time, I've just walked with Him...

 

[Abram's Awakening]

I already went to Christ, and now He dwells in me. His Word is implanted in me, and He gave me many gifts because I chose to abandon the world at a very young age and cling to Him...

This is what it is to be a true bondservant of Jesus Christ...

 

[Berean777]

Im not saying to leave the church. I'm not saying they're all false-though the majority of them are. I'm not saying that those which are false are evil- they're misled and have been blinded under delusions brought on by deception. If anything, I see them in a deep spiritual sleep and I want to wake them up...

The Lord says there will be a gathering and a reconciliation. He is going to call those of His choosing out of these Churches to the rebuilding of Zion.

Im using the weapons the Lord has given me to war with the Satan and destroy his works by revealing his deception...

And this war has been going on for quite some time...

We're on the same side, don't get the wrong idea...

Our business is to preach Christ to those who know not Christ.

We don't have a commission nor authority to tell people to leave their churches.

In fact Jesus told his disciples in his time on earth that they should not tell others who formed their groups by using his name, just because they weren't part of their group.

Mark 9:38-41
Whoever Is Not Against Us Is for Us

38“Teacher,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.”

39“Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “For no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40for whoever is not against us is for us. 41Truly I tell you, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to the Messiah will certainly not lose their reward.