Rev. 20:4, No Mention of Physical Earthly Reign

[Jan001]

jan001,

1. I didn't say it couldn't be used as the Lord's timing of 1000 years as a day. I did say that it is about a physical and literal 1000 years because it happens 1000 years from the 2nd resurrection of the sinners.

2. The first resurrection is only of the tribulation saints of the second half from all indication in Revelation 20. Why Because it specifically says so and the last actual account of the tribulation is Revelation 15 of which they go to heaven. In Revelation 14 they are called the Blessed Dead and in Revelation 6 the first half tribbers that are martyrs are told to wait for their brethren to be martyred in order to be vindicated. This seems to implies that the 1st resurrection is nothing but all the tribulation saints. However, in Revelation 20:4-6 only specifically states those in Revelation 16 which are the blessed dead and those who are in the last half of the tribulation who do not take the mark of the beast. There is no mention of the church or any living saint who is raptured at this time. This is why you have to build up a false straw man. This rapture in Revelation 15 is before the 7 vials are poured out upon the beast kingdom only in Revelation 16. It is known as the WRATH OF GOD upon the earth! The 5th angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain; And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

3. Just because their are metaphors in scripture there are literal examples as well. The problem is when the proper perspective is literal and it is used as symbolic and vice versa.

4. Your problem is that you use your belief of God's timing to the extreme to keep the doctrine of the true millennium is not true. You are the one who is being strictly metaphorical and leave the literal aspect out. I on the other hand say you can use both because the spiritual aspect of it's meaning is just a long amount of time so the literal can fit within that time frame.

5. If you make the 1000 years not literal as in man's time then you cannot make the day in man's time. But that is the way that it is used or at least the perception and the implication.

6. Do you think you can prove from Peter that the 1000 years is pointed straight at a literal meaning of God's timing only and connect it to the 1000 years of the tribulation.

7. You cannot connect the context of Revelation 20 with anything in the church era right now directly and specifically being the 1000 years because today is not the Day of the Lord or the Day of God. Try it.
Yes the authors knew the 1000 years was literal.You are leaning on a false premise and do not either understand Jewish belief about eternality of the covenants for them or you are just following the RC doctrine. Jerry kelso

Obviously, we will never agree on this topic.

 

[BABerean2]

1. Jeremiah 31 was not fulfilled with the nation of Israel at Calvary because they rejected the message and they had to obey in order to receive. Matthew 4:17: Jesus said, The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand. This was talking about the physical kingdom reign.

Jerry,

How can an earthly physical kingdom on this sin-cursed world, be the kingdom of heaven?

When Jesus ascended into heaven in Acts chapter 1, He left the earth...

Do you see the problem in logic?
.

 

[Jan001]

Peter uses a literal thousand years, as well as a literal day. There is no evidence that Rev 20's use of a thousand years is less or more than a thousand. Citing unrelated examples from a different culture and language is not evidence. Rev gives exact times in years and months and days.

2 Peter 3:8
But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. nkjv​

I disagree with your interpretations. Peter does not use a literal 1000 years. Peter uses a symbolic a thousand years as a symbolic number for an unspecified number of actual years.

Yes, Revelation does give exact times such as years and months and days for some things. The following is literal and it means exactly forty-two months.

Revelation 11:2
But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months. nkjv
​

The following are symbolic and they do not mean exactly 1000 years.

Revelation 20:2
He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; nkjv

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. nkjv
​

Jesus returns bodily once more only and it is at the end of time. He comes to judge the living and the dead; in other words all people both good and evil will be judged immediately after Jesus returns to earth.

John 5:28-29
Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His [Jesus'] voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

​

 

[jerry kelso]

Jerry,

How can an earthly physical kingdom on this sin-cursed world, be the kingdom of heaven?

When Jesus ascended into heaven in Acts chapter 1, He left the earth...

Do you see the problem in logic?
.

baberean2,

1. The kingdom is in abeyance. The KOH is the earthly sphere in location of the universe. This cannot be denied.

2. Daniel 7:27: And the kingdom and dominion and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

3. The kingdom under the whole heaven is earth. The everlasting kingdom given to the people of the saint of the most High is the physical location of the earth and the spiritual rule to reign over the earth.

4. When Jesus said the KoH was at hand he was speaking of the physical rule on earth that was conditioned by obedience of Israel. God will not rule with man without a holy heart.
Adam and Eve ruled the physical location of the garden which was the KoH, but when they sinned and lost the spiritual KoG in their hearts God kicked them out of the physical KoH location. These two kingdoms were lost and had to be restored.

5. The spiritual kingdom was restored which was prophesied in Genesis 3:15 and happened at Calvary in the new covenant of his blood (Matthew 28:26).
The saints reigning with Christ on this physical location of the KoH will not happen until he physically takes back the kingdoms of this world in the future battle of Armageddon. (Revelation 11:15 and Revelation 19:11-15).

6. Physical location of the KoH-Earth

7. Spiritual rule of the KoG is in man's heart which is salvation of the new covenant.
The Spiritual reign of the Physical location of the KoH will be in the kingdom or the millennial rule of the first 1000 years of the kingdom. Revelation 20:4-6.

8. One last thing, KoH is greek, Baselia, which is kingdom from the heavens. This means that the spiritual rule always comes from heaven or from God. Jerry kelso

 

[jerry kelso]

Obviously, we will never agree on this topic.

jan001, Obviously not.
The 1000 years in Revelation 20 has to do with the tribulation saints which is in the future. You believe that the 1000 years is now and that the church reigns now. This is a contradiction unless you believe there are 2 separate 1000 years reign or you just use your 1000 God's timing to make it true. However, you believe that this time now is the only 1000 years reign. Are you telling me that you don't see a contradiction and a dilemma for your view?
You have no way to connect this context of Revelation 20 of the 1000 years with Satan in the bottomless pit while the martyrs who didn't take the mark who have been resurrected before the 7 vials to what you say is the reign now of 1000 years. There is no scripture that says the church is in a 1000 year reign of any kind. Your reign is said due to Christ said his kingdom wasn't of this world but there is no association to Revelation 20 in its context. Unless you can adequately prove that they are connected you will always just disagree and not prove anything. Good luck!. Jerry kelso

 

[parousia70]

parousia70,
Are you trying to convince yourself? I have not avoided your scriptures but you don't like my answers and that is true.
You answer to Isaiah 2:1-4 and prove that it has nothing to do with Israel as the head of the nations in the kingdom; that is if you believe that you are so solidly grounded in scripture and I am not. Jerry kelso

I already Answered it in my Post #497 above.
It has everything to Do With Israel as head of the Nations.

The Nazarene sect of Israel is the ONLY National Israel Recognized by God today .
We are the Kingdom that can never be destroyed, where the Kings of the earth bring their treasures into.

That you continue to cling to the belief that there is some other Israel today apart from the faithful Remnant of the Nazarene sect who's recognized King is the Messiah of Israel, is your stumbling block.

 

[parousia70]

I really don't understand the preoccupation with ethnic jews by Christians today. Surely we are all clear from Romans 11 and pretty much all of Hebrews that the Church is Israel today?

You would think such an simple, straightforward truth would be as plain as the nose on their faces wouldn't you?

Instead, as I have been pointing out, these Christians have the rather bizarre belief that the disobedient Sons of Abraham are the vehicle by which Israel is to be recognized, instead of the Apostolic teaching that ONLY the faithful remnant are True Israel.

 

[jerry kelso]

I already Answered it in my Post #497 above.
It has everything to Do With Israel as head of the Nations.

The Nazarene sect of Israel is the ONLY National Israel Recognized by God today .
We are the Kingdom that can never be destroyed, where the Kings of the earth bring their treasures into.

That you continue to cling to the belief that there is some other Israel today apart from the faithful Remnant of the Nazarene sect who's recognized King is the Messiah of Israel, is your stumbling block.

parousia70,
Are you talking about the nazarene sect of Israel as the church of jew and gentiles or the supposed sect of Israel who supposedly were the ones who outlasted the 70 A.D. and are still existing now and will be a part of the 144,000? Explain yourself. Jerry Kelso

 

[parousia70]

parousia70,
Are you talking about the nazarene sect of Israel as the church of jew and gentiles or the supposed sect of Israel who supposedly were the ones who outlasted the 70 A.D. and are still existing now and will be a part of the 144,000? Explain yourself. Jerry Kelso

The Nazarene sect of Israel of whom Paul was a ringleader (Acts 24:5)

 

[ewq1938]

2 Peter 3:8
But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. nkjv​

I disagree with your interpretations. Peter does not use a literal 1000 years. Peter uses a symbolic a thousand years as a symbolic number for an unspecified number of actual years.

No he doesn't. He is using a thousand years, no less or more, same with the day, one day not two or 500.

Yes, Revelation does give exact times such as years and months and days for some things. The following is literal and it means exactly forty-two months.

Revelation 11:2
But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months. nkjv
​

The following are symbolic and they do not mean exactly 1000 years.

Revelation 20:2
He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; nkjv

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. nkjv​

You only believe the thousand years is figurative. There is no such indication that it is however.

​

Jesus returns bodily once more only and it is at the end of time.

Time never ends because there is an eternity of time, with a new fruit each month on the tree of life.

He comes to judge the living and the dead; in other words all people both good and evil will be judged immediately after Jesus returns to earth.

Not immediately as there is a war to fight and some other things to do first. Also, that judgment is not the same one found in Rev 20 because there is no separating the good and the bad since they had been earlier by Christ.

John 5:28-29

Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His [Jesus'] voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

Yes, the time is coming that the saved will be raised FIRST as Paul writes, then Rev 20 tells us a thousand years passes, then after that the "rest of the dead" will be resurrected and judged. If you don't consider all the scriptures pertaining to the resurrections then you won't be able to see the entire picture.


​

 

[BABerean2]

You have no way to connect this context of Revelation 20 of the 1000 years with Satan in the bottomless pit

2Pe_2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Jud_1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

.

 

[parousia70]

No he doesn't. He is using a thousand years, no less or more, same with the day, one day not two or 500.

To God, one earth day can = 1000 years

​

 

[ewq1938]

2Pe_2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Jud_1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

.

lol, Satan isn't mentioned there plus these angels will not be released until it's judgement time but Satan will be chained in the pit a thousand years, then released before judgement time so he can raise up one last army.

 

[jerry kelso]

2Pe_2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Jud_1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

.

The context was Revelation 20 with the Catholics view of the churches supposed 1000 years reign now.
As far as your scriptures it has nothing to do with Satan in the bottomless pit. They are talking about the angels who sinned and not Satan for he is still deceiving and was then and it has nothing to do with Revelation 20 with Satan going to the bottomless pit which is different than the compartment of hell. Even if it isn't it still is the wrong time frame for Revelation 20.
You need to learn context and the correct time frame of what is being spoken.
You also need to prove that Isaiah 2:1-4 is not talking about Israel in the kingdom which has not happened yet. You can't and that is why you haven't. If you think you can you need to make it good. Go! Jerry kelso

 

[BABerean2]

As far as your scriptures it has nothing to do with Satan in the bottomless pit. They are talking about the angels who sinned and not Satan

Satan is the chief wicked angel, but he is still an angel who sinned...

Why would some of the angels who sinned be bound in chains, but not others?

Being chained does not prevent one from having an effect upon others. The Apostle Paul was chained to a Roman soldier, but still had a tremendous effect in spreading the Gospel, while he was in chains.

.

 

[ewq1938]

Satan is the chief wicked angel, but he is still an angel who sinned...

He was not chained up for the sins he has committed. The other group of angels committed a certain sin and were chained up so they could never do it again. Satan was not chained up with them.

Why would some of the angels who sinned be bound in chains, but not others?

Again, the only angels chained up committed a certain sin, the others did not commit it.

Being chained does not prevent one from having an effect upon others. The Apostle Paul was chained to a Roman soldier, but still had a tremendous effect in spreading the Gospel, while he was in chains.

Was Paul locked inside the bottomless pit while he was chained?


.

 

[jerry kelso]

Satan is the chief wicked angel, but he is still an angel who sinned...

Why would some of the angels who sinned be bound in chains, but not others?

Being chained does not prevent one from having an effect upon others. The Apostle Paul was chained to a Roman soldier, but still had a tremendous effect in spreading the Gospel, while he was in chains.

.

baberean2,

1. These angels of Jude was in Genesis 6:1-4 who went after strange flesh. They are reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Satan is going about like a lion roaring seeking whom he may devour right now. Even in the first original rebellion he was not chained but he became the power of the air.
The devil is thrown into the bottomless pit for 1000 actual years so he won't be able to deceive the nations. Trust me he is deceiving the nations and many christians as well.
Paul's chains weren't effective because of Christ power who is greater than Satan. Satan chained in the bottomless pit cannot be loosed because Christ power is greater and will not be loosed until the 1000 years is up to deceive the nations for the last revolt. Read your bible!
Context! Context! Context! Jerry kelso

 

[BABerean2]

The devil is thrown into the bottomless pit for 1000 actual years so he won't be able to deceive the nations. Trust me he is deceiving the nations and many christians as well.

Satan has not been able to deceive all the nations during the Church Age, in one major way. Through the Gospel the nations of the world have had the truth of God's Plan of Salvation.

You are correct, that Plan is now being rejected, even in America.

As God's Plan is rejected by the peoples of the world, Satan's plan is replacing it...

In the middle east our Brothers and Sisters are being tortured and murdered for our faith.

Our soldiers stationed in the middle east are being told to ignore the cries of little boys who are being sexually assaulted by those who claim to be our allies. It is satanic.

.

 

[jerry kelso]

Satan has not been able to deceive all the nations during the Church Age, in one major way. Through the Gospel the nations of the world have had the truth of God's Plan of Salvation.

You are correct, that Plan is now being rejected, even in America.

As God's Plan is rejected by the peoples of the world, Satan's plan is replacing it...

In the middle east our Brothers and Sisters are being tortured and murdered for our faith.

Our soldiers stationed in the middle east are being told to ignore the cries of little boys who are being sexually assaulted by those who claim to be our allies. It is satanic.

.

baberean 2,

Why do you keep spinning? You are trying to use one reason to skate from another.
Satan deceives the believer and the unbeliever through many different ways.
Satan not being able to deceive the nations by being chained in the bottomless pit has to do with the end times and not any other time in the past. You cannot prove otherwise and you cannot disprove Isaiah 2:1-4 so you need to quit spinning and avoiding the most evident proof is that Israel will be at the head of the nations and not the church. The truth will set you free. This is the scriptural truth. Jerry kelso

 

[BABerean2]

you need to quit spinning and avoiding the most evident proof is that Israel will be at the head of the nations and not the church

You are attempting to replace the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ with the modern nation of Israel.

He will be the head, not a nation made up of humans or a land made up of dirt and rocks.

It is not about Israel, Jerry.

The whole Bible is about Jesus Christ. He wrote it. John 1:1

He was the plan of salvation before the foundation of the world, not a land you called Israel.

He fulfilled all of the Old Testament prophecies, not a land called Israel.

He is the One Seed to whom the promises were made, not the many seeds which are the descendants of Jacob.

The Church is not a "parenthesis" in God's plan dealing with the nation of Israel.

He was God's promise to Abraham, before there was a nation of Israel.

The Church of Jesus Christ is the Plan.

God sent His Son to die for us. What else do you expect Him to do?

.