Philosophical arguments against the existence of God

[anonymous person]

There was not a global flood a few thousand years ago. We have the geologic record to prove it.

I happily agree with this.

Remember the massive earthquake and tsunami that killed so many people around the Indian ocean just a few years back? That wasn't caused by any flooding or any other such nonsense. It was caused by the steady movement of one plate being thrust under another plate. This is driven by the movement of the mantle below the crust and by the increased density of the leading edge of the plate as a result of millions of years of cooling (i.e. cold slab pull).

Cause and effect my friend. Science is knowledge by causes.

The initial shifting of the plates in question was itself an effect of some prior natural cause which was the result of some natural cause before it. So on and so on back, back, back in time. The movement of the tectonic plates do not happen as isolated events. They are not causally disconnected from the natural world in which they occur. Everything is interconnected and regardless of how long ago a global flood occurred, it's effects would still be observable.

Not only that, but Jesus specifically prophesied that there would be earthquakes, wars, and rumors of war, along with disease as the end of the age drew near. These things would increase in intensity as a woman's contractions increase as she nears her time. So if you need evidence that the bible is the word of God, just keep up with what's happening in the world. Prophecy is being fulfilled before our very eyes.

 

[anonymous person]

We don't have to be God in order to determine if an action is immoral.

I never said we did buddy. I never said we did.

God couldn't bring about greater good without evil? Then God is not omnipotent. As shown previously, God is defined as being omnipotent. God's existence has been disproven.

There is a lot God cannot do. This does not impugn His omnipotence.

He cannot lie. He cannot force someone to freely do something. He cannot make a married bachelor or a round square. He cannot cease to exist etc. Etc.

Omnipotence refers to God having the power to do whatever is possible for Him to do. It does not mean that He can do anything.

 

[Loudmouth]

I never said we did buddy. I never said we did.

Then we don't need to be God in order to determine if God's actions are immoral.

There is a lot God cannot do. This does not impugn His omnipotence.

He cannot lie. He cannot force someone to freely do something. He cannot make a married bachelor or a round square. He cannot cease to exist etc. Etc.

Stopping someone from committing murder is not a paradox.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I did obviously.

Yea but why? It didn't have anything to do with what I'm talking about.

 

[anonymous person]

Then we don't need to be God in order to determine if God's actions are immoral.

One day, not too long ago, my five year old twins did something I told them not to do. As a result I sent them both to the room they share to sit on their bed and think about what they did and why it was wrong and why they were being punished. I closed the door and stood outside to listen to what they would say.

They started talking to each other and said things like "daddy is mad at us" and "we don't have a daddy anymore" and "he is being mean to us" and "when mommy gets home we are going to tell her daddy was mean to us and he is bad daddy".

Now to be sure, my children have a rudimentary understanding of morality. They know they should share their toys. They know they should not lie but tell the truth. They knew they should obey me and their mother. I even asked them if what they did was wrong when they disobeyed me and they confessed they knew that what they did was wrong.

Nevertheless they judged me to be a bad daddy when I punished them for disobedience. Although they knew right from wrong, they were not in a position epistemically to know that me punishing them was intended to bring about a greater good for them, i.e. it was to help them remember not to play where I cannot see them but to play where I can see them so that they are safe. Their ultimate well being was what I had in mind when I brought them in and told them to go to their room. I wanted them to learn to listen to me because I know I have their best interest in mind. I know of the pedophiles that prey upon unsupervised children. I know of the people driving cars that do not pay attention to where they are driving while texting that have hit children and run them over and killed them. I know of all the insects and wild dogs that are out there that could hurt them.

They don't know what I know. They can't know what I know. I am over thirty years old. They are five. I'm an adult they are a child.

They thought me bad for punishing them. They did not know what I knew.

Likewise we as adults are sometimes like my children. We don't know or see the big picture. We see God punishing people or allowing certain things to happen and we assume He is bad or mean and if all we did was pluck out of the Bible those verses that talk about these things it is no wonder we would view Him as bad bloke.

When I was a child I thought my dad was very mean to me sometimes and overbearing. I thought he was a tyrant and treated me the way he did because he didn't Iike me or didn't want me to have fun. Now that I am a man with children of my own, I realize he did what he did many times because he loved me and wanted me to renounce those things he knew would ultimately be my undoing.

Then I did not know it or see it. Now I do.

I have a different view of God than you do. This is partly because I find many more verses in the Bible that show God is merciful, compassionate, longsuffering, and loving than those that speak about His wrath and vengeance.

If I wanted to I could simply ignore any and all portions of the bible where God is said to be wrathful or where He does things that I can't understand or think are contrary to Him. But I dont. I don't because I believe that I should accept the whole counsel of God and that it is all God's word even the parts I don't get.

I choose not to be like Thomas Jefferson who felt free to cut out of the Bible those verses he did not agree with and make his own.

Idol worship is easy. Worshipping the One True God requires obedience.

 

[Loudmouth]

One day, not too long ago, my five year old twins did something I told them not to do. As a result I sent them both to the room they share to sit on their bed and think about what they did and why it was wrong and why they were being punished. I closed the door and stood outside to listen to what they would say.

They started talking to each other and said things like "daddy is mad at us" and "we don't have a daddy anymore" and "he is being mean to us" and "when mommy gets home we are going to tell her daddy was mean to us and he is bad daddy".

Now to be sure, my children have a rudimentary understanding of morality. They know they should share their toys. They know they should not lie but tell the truth. They knew they should obey me and their mother. I even asked them if what they did was wrong when they disobeyed me and they confessed they knew that what they did was wrong.

Nevertheless they judged me to be a bad daddy when I punished them for disobedience. Although they knew right from wrong, they were not in a position epistemically to know that me punishing them was intended to bring about a greater good for them, i.e. it was to help them remember not to play where I cannot see them but to play where I can see them so that they are safe. Their ultimate well being was what I had in mind when I brought them in and told them to go to their room. I wanted them to learn to listen to me because I know I have their best interest in mind. I know of the pedophiles that prey upon unsupervised children. I know of the people driving cars that do not pay attention to where they are driving while texting that have hit children and run them over and killed them. I know of all the insects and wild dogs that are out there that could hurt them.

They don't know what I know. They can't know what I know. I am over thirty years old. They are five. I'm an adult they are a child.

They thought me bad for punishing them. They did not know what I knew.

Likewise we as adults are sometimes like my children. We don't know or see the big picture. We see God punishing people or allowing certain things to happen and we assume He is bad or mean and if all we did was pluck out of the Bible those verses that talk about these things it is no wonder we would view Him as bad bloke.

When I was a child I thought my dad was very mean to me sometimes and overbearing. I thought he was a tyrant and treated me the way he did because he didn't Iike me or didn't want me to have fun. Now that I am a man with children of my own, I realize he did what he did many times because he loved me and wanted me to renounce those things he knew would ultimately be my undoing.

Then I did not know it or see it. Now I do.

I have a different view of God than you do. This is partly because I find many more verses in the Bible that show God is merciful, compassionate, longsuffering, and loving than those that speak about His wrath and vengeance.

If I wanted to I could simply ignore any and all portions of the bible where God is said to be wrathful or where He does things that I can't understand or think are contrary to Him. But I dont. I don't because I believe that I should accept the whole counsel of God and that it is all God's word even the parts I don't get.

I choose not to be like Thomas Jefferson who felt free to cut out of the Bible those verses he did not agree with and make his own.

Idol worship is easy. Worshipping the One True God requires obedience.

Are you going to punish your grandchildren for what your children did? Would a moral parent do that?

Did you punish your children by giving them cancer? Would you cure your children of cancer if you could? Would you be a moral person if you could cure your children of cancer, but didn't?

We are told that children dying of cancer is a punishment for what our ancestors did, and it doesn't even come close to what a moral person would do. We have a knowledge of what morality is. This isn't a case of not having the same knowledge. We do.

 

[Ana the Ist]

One day, not too long ago, my five year old twins did something I told them not to do. As a result I sent them both to the room they share to sit on their bed and think about what they did and why it was wrong and why they were being punished. I closed the door and stood outside to listen to what they would say.

They started talking to each other and said things like "daddy is mad at us" and "we don't have a daddy anymore" and "he is being mean to us" and "when mommy gets home we are going to tell her daddy was mean to us and he is bad daddy".

Now to be sure, my children have a rudimentary understanding of morality. They know they should share their toys. They know they should not lie but tell the truth. They knew they should obey me and their mother. I even asked them if what they did was wrong when they disobeyed me and they confessed they knew that what they did was wrong.

Nevertheless they judged me to be a bad daddy when I punished them for disobedience. Although they knew right from wrong, they were not in a position epistemically to know that me punishing them was intended to bring about a greater good for them, i.e. it was to help them remember not to play where I cannot see them but to play where I can see them so that they are safe. Their ultimate well being was what I had in mind when I brought them in and told them to go to their room. I wanted them to learn to listen to me because I know I have their best interest in mind. I know of the pedophiles that prey upon unsupervised children. I know of the people driving cars that do not pay attention to where they are driving while texting that have hit children and run them over and killed them. I know of all the insects and wild dogs that are out there that could hurt them.

They don't know what I know. They can't know what I know. I am over thirty years old. They are five. I'm an adult they are a child.

They thought me bad for punishing them. They did not know what I knew.

Likewise we as adults are sometimes like my children. We don't know or see the big picture. We see God punishing people or allowing certain things to happen and we assume He is bad or mean and if all we did was pluck out of the Bible those verses that talk about these things it is no wonder we would view Him as bad bloke.

When I was a child I thought my dad was very mean to me sometimes and overbearing. I thought he was a tyrant and treated me the way he did because he didn't Iike me or didn't want me to have fun. Now that I am a man with children of my own, I realize he did what he did many times because he loved me and wanted me to renounce those things he knew would ultimately be my undoing.

Then I did not know it or see it. Now I do.

I have a different view of God than you do. This is partly because I find many more verses in the Bible that show God is merciful, compassionate, longsuffering, and loving than those that speak about His wrath and vengeance.

If I wanted to I could simply ignore any and all portions of the bible where God is said to be wrathful or where He does things that I can't understand or think are contrary to Him. But I dont. I don't because I believe that I should accept the whole counsel of God and that it is all God's word even the parts I don't get.

I choose not to be like Thomas Jefferson who felt free to cut out of the Bible those verses he did not agree with and make his own.

Idol worship is easy. Worshipping the One True God requires obedience.

This is a dumb comparison.

 

[Davian]

No I don't agree with your reasoning.
<snip preaching>

You failed to address my question.

There would be no earthquakes if Adam and Eve had not disobeyed God. The ground was cursed because of their disobedience to God. In God's economy, sin has devastating consequences which are far reaching beyond the immediate.

Do you feel that this should be taught in public schools? Would that be part of the science curriculum, or comparative religion?

 

[anonymous person]

Are you going to punish your grandchildren for what your children did? Would a moral parent do that?

My grandmother, a woman upright and who walks with God punished me whenever I did something meriting punishment. She often times told me how much Iike my dad I was. The same things my dad did, I did. She punished me just like she did him. She never once walked up to me while I was being a good little boy and said "boy, your dad lied when he was your age, and even though you are being a good little boy right now, I'm going to punish you because of what he did!"

That's absurd.

Please read this if you have not already. The article puts the pertinent verses in context and expounds upon them.

www.gotquestions.org/parents-sin.html

Did you punish your children by giving them cancer?

No

Would you cure your children of cancer if you could?

I don't view cancer the way you do. I don't view life the way you do. I don't want to lean on my own understanding either. So while the question is a no-brainer for you, it is not so clear cut for me. Would I want my children to suffer? Of course not. Would I want my children to die? Of course not. But my God is greater than cancer and many of my brothers and sisters have had it and overcome it and have lived through it, learning from it, becoming better people because of the suffering they endured and patience and perseverance they cultivated. Some overcame and are now with Christ, having overcome through the blood of The Lamb.

I would want what is best for my children. If that meant being healed by God then I would rejoice. If it meant them being ushered into the presence of God having been delivered from this world, I would consider. God gave them to me and He can take them away.

Would you be a moral person if you could cure your children of cancer, but didn't?

I don't determine what is moral. God does that for me. I desire to live moment by moment in His will so that I will know what course of action to take in any given situation.

We are told that children dying of cancer is a punishment for what our ancestors did, and it doesn't even come close to what a moral person would do. We have a knowledge of what morality is. This isn't a case of not having the same knowledge. We do.

Everything God created was good. This means there was no cancer. No disease. No pain. No suffering. No death.

 

[Loudmouth]

My grandmother, a woman upright and who walks with God punished me whenever I did something meriting punishment. She often times told me how much Iike my dad I was. The same things my dad did, I did. She punished me just like she did him. She never once walked up to me while I was being a good little boy and said "boy, your dad lied when he was your age, and even though you are being a good little boy right now, I'm going to punish you because of what he did!"

That's absurd.

The explanation for disease, pain, and suffering is original sin. We are being punished for what Adam and Eve did.

Please read this if you have not already. The article puts the pertinent verses in context and expounds upon them.

www.gotquestions.org/parents-sin.html

Please discuss it.

I don't view cancer the way you do. I don't view life the way you do. I don't want to lean on my own understanding either. So while the question is a no-brainer for you, it is not so clear cut for me. Would I want my children to suffer? Of course not. Would I want my children to die? Of course not. But my God is greater than cancer and many of my brothers and sisters have had it and overcome it and have lived through it, learning from it, becoming better people because of the suffering they endured and patience and perseverance they cultivated. Some overcame and are now with Christ, having overcome through the blood of The Lamb.

You claim that you don't lean on your own understanding, but then reveal that you do. You would cure your children of cancer. You would prevent them from suffering. Why? Because you don't have to kill children with cancer in order to teach lessons. No moral person would kill people with cancer to teach them lessons, especially an omnipotent deity who wouldn't need to do such a thing.

I would want what is best for my children. If that meant being healed by God then I would rejoice. If it meant them being ushered into the presence of God having been delivered from this world, I would consider. God gave them to me and He can take them away.

Why would a moral and omnipotent God need to take your children away from you?

I don't determine what is moral. God does that for me. I desire to live moment by moment in His will so that I will know what course of action to take in any given situation.

Then you can't claim that God is moral. All you are saying is that you are obedient and hope that God is moral. You are just following orders.

Everything God created was good. This means there was no cancer. No disease. No pain. No suffering. No death.

Then where did it come from?

 

[bhsmte]

Things are getting, more "fundie" like, as we move on folks.

 

[anonymous person]

The explanation for disease, pain, and suffering is original sin. We are being punished for what Adam and Eve did.



Please discuss it.



You claim that you don't lean on your own understanding, but then reveal that you do. You would cure your children of cancer. You would prevent them from suffering. Why? Because you don't have to kill children with cancer in order to teach lessons. No moral person would kill people with cancer to teach them lessons, especially an omnipotent deity who wouldn't need to do such a thing.



Why would a moral and omnipotent God need to take your children away from you?



Then you can't claim that God is moral. All you are saying is that you are obedient and hope that God is moral. You are just following orders.



Then where did it come from?

Read the epistle of Paul to the Romans. In it you may find answers to your questions. Read it prayerfully. Read it openly. Read it honestly, praying humbly that God shine His light upon it and speak to your heart.

 

[anonymous person]

Things are getting, more "fundie" like, as we move on folks.

Indeed. I am a bible believing. Christian. When someone calls me a fundamental, I take it as a compliment.

 

[anonymous person]

You failed to address my question.

Do you feel that this should be taught in public schools? Would that be part of the science curriculum, or comparative religion?

I believe children should be taught the truth. That God loves them and that they are fearfully and wonderfully made in His image and that we are to love our neighbor as we love ourselves and that we are all accountable for what we do with the life God has given us. That the evil we do will be judged and the good praised and that we are to seek and pursue righteousness because in doing so, we find true happiness and peace.

 

[bhsmte]

I believe children should be taught the truth. That God loves them and that they are fearfully and wonderfully made in His image and that we are to love our neighbor as we love ourselves and that we are all accountable for what we do with the life God has given us. That the evil we do will be judged and the good praised and that we are to seek and pursue righteousness because in doing so, we find true happiness and peace.

How would you demonstrate, the truth behind earthquakes happening because of a fallen world? What objective evidence would you rely on?

 

[bhsmte]

Indeed. I am a bible believing. Christian. When someone calls me a fundamental, I take it as a compliment.

I'm quite sure you would.

 

[bhsmte]

Read the epistle of Paul to the Romans. In it you may find answers to your questions. Read it prayerfully. Read it openly. Read it honestly, praying humbly that God shine His light upon it and speak to your heart.

Did you used to be a librarian?

 

[quatona]

I don't know. Maybe one day God will tell me or show me. If not, I certainly won't lose any sleep over it.

Then you will understand that we don´t lose any sleep over your empty claims, either.

 

[DogmaHunter]

I do think atheism logically leads to nihilism.

And you don't feel the need to alter those beliefs, upon the observation of many, many, many atheists who aren't nihilists at all?

And no thanks, I don't feel the need to provide a falsifiable hypothesis for you to substantiate any of this.

Maybe you should feel that need... Not for us, but for yourself. Instead of "just believing", you might actually turn it into "justified in believing".

Or, off course, you might realise that what you believe is false.

Don't you want to believe as many true things as possible?
Don't you care about your beliefs being correct and justified?

Again we are back to: "how do you know your beliefs are sound, if you can't verify them?"

 

[anonymous person]

How would you demonstrate, the truth behind earthquakes happening because of a fallen world? What objective evidence would you rely on?

I would rely on the testimony of God.