Logical Problems with Calvinism

[FreeGrace2]

No he wasn't. There was no fruit. That's why the fourth soil is the picture of a true believer. There is fruit.

No, the parable of the soils is about fruit production, or spiritual maturity. Soils 2 and 3 believed and were saved, but because of various distractions, never grew up and produced fruit.

Baby or immature believers don't produce fruit. They need to grow up first.

 

[Hammster]

The Bible says that man believes from his heart.

Is that done in the flesh or in the Spirit?

 

[FreeGrace2]

So when one chooses to believe, is that choice made in the Spirit or in the flesh?

It's made in the heart. Rom 10:10 says so.

Your question is bogus.

 

[FreeGrace2]

The question isn't about choosing. The issue is whether or not you are in the Spirit (regenerated) or in the flesh (unregenerate) when you choose.

There is no issue. Eph 2:5 is about being "made alive", or "having been saved". V.8 says we are saved through faith. The order is pretty clear.

 

[FreeGrace2]

So when you believe, are you in the flesh or the Spirit?

How about showing Scripture that shows which? Are there any?

Is your fondness of asking questions up to the task of providing answers from Scripture to your questions? Or not?

 

[EmSw]

Belief isn't enough. Even the demons believe.

And what should be added to faith for one to be saved?

 

[FreeGrace2]

That's what I'm saying. Keep in mind that Christianity can be treated just like any religion. There are people who "join" because they think it will help their lives, or whatever. That hard times come and it shows that they were not actually rooted in Christ. Otherwise, they'd bear fruit.

Jesus very plainly SAID that the second soil believed. Luke 8:13 But you've chosen to ignore what He SAID. Or reject. Which is it?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Yes, since the others never bore fruit, then they can not be saved.
Jesus says
Matthew 7:19
Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

So, salvation is really about producing fruit then, and not about believing in Christ??

 

[Hammster]

No, the parable of the soils is about fruit production, or spiritual maturity. Soils 2 and 3 believed and were saved, but because of various distractions, never grew up and produced fruit.

Baby or immature believers don't produce fruit. They need to grow up first.

All believers produce fruit. Hence, the parable.

 

[Hammster]

Jesus very plainly SAID that the second soil believed. Luke 8:13 But you've chosen to ignore what He SAID. Or reject. Which is it?

Belief isn't enough. Even the demons believe. There was no root.

 

[Hammster]

So, salvation is really about producing fruit then, and not about believing in Christ??

Never said that.

 

[EmSw]

No, the parable of the soils is about fruit production, or spiritual maturity. Soils 2 and 3 believed and were saved, but because of various distractions, never grew up and produced fruit.

Baby or immature believers don't produce fruit. They need to grow up first.

Actually, it says they fell away. And it says they believed for a while. If one no longer believes, how are they saved?

 

[FreeGrace2]

It doesn't say they were saved. It says they had no root. Belief isn't enough to save.

So then you also reject Paul's answer to the jailer who asked him what he MUST DO to be saved. And Paul told him, "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved".

Belief in Christ is the ONLY WAY to be saved. Those who add anything else; works, deeds, fruit, etc only reject God's GRACE.

 

[Hammster]

So then you also reject Paul's answer to the jailer who asked him what he MUST DO to be saved. And Paul told him, "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved".

Belief in Christ is the ONLY WAY to be saved. Those who add anything else; works, deeds, fruit, etc only reject God's GRACE.

Why would you think I reject that? I never said faith wasn't required. Perhaps it would be best to look at the whole argument I made instead of deconstructing it. Then you'd be able to make what would at least be a coherent rejoinder.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Belief isn't enough. Even the demons believe.

Uh, James told us what it is that the demons believe. They believe in monotheism. When did that become "saving faith" for humans? Never.

Actually, the demons even believe that Jesus is the Son of God? Why is that? Because they used to live in heaven with the Trinity and they know that from experience, not based on faith, or taking someone's word for it.

And trying to argue ANYTHING from demons and trying to relate it to humans is FALLACIOUS because Jesus never died for angels. So there is no comparison on any level.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Is that done in the flesh or in the Spirit?

Define yourself please. Rom 10:10 is clear about where man believes from; his heart.

Seems you're quite fond of asking questions, but not so much about answering them.

 

[FreeGrace2]

All believers produce fruit. Hence, the parable.

Please support this assumption with clear Scripture.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Actually, it says they fell away. And it says they believed for a while. If one no longer believes, how are they saved?

Because eternal life is given WHEN one believes, per Jesus in John 5:24. And Paul said that eternal life is a gift of God in Rom 6:23. And then he said that God's gifts are irrevocable.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Why would you think I reject that?

Because you actually said this:
"Belief isn't enough to save."

That's why I said what I said.

I never said faith wasn't required.

Please stop trying to deconstruct my comments. Your statement is clear; belief isn't enough to save. Yet, that's ALL Paul told the jailer about how to be saved. So you DO reject Paul's answer to the jailer, which was my point. Stop trying to deflect from the issue.

Perhaps it would be best to look at the whole argument I made instead of deconstructing it. Then you'd be able to make what would at least be a coherent rejoinder.

You've been refuted by Scripture. Your statement is clear about more being required to be saved than just belief. Paul refutes that notion.

 

[Hammster]

Define yourself please. Rom 10:10 is clear about where man believes from; his heart.

Seems you're quite fond of asking questions, but not so much about answering them.

I thought that any believer with even a little bit of knowledge about theology would understand the question. I see I was wrong, and I apologize that I assumed that about you.

Doing anything in the flesh is to do it apart from Christ. It would basically be anything done that doesn't glorify God. Those things done in the Spirit are those things that please and glorify God. Those can only be done by Christ working in us and through us.

So, now that I've answered your question, do we believe from the heart while in the flesh, or in the Spirit?