Your Interpretation of Scripture is NOT The Inerrant Word of God

[AirPo]

Whatever.

Meanwhile ... back to eschatology?

If all you do is tell your kids "no," thing may end badly.

 

[AV1611VET]

I thought the OP was about how a single persons interpretation of scripture is not the be all and end all.

That was then.

This is now.

Do you have a better answer to Sarah's post?

 

[AV1611VET]

If all you do is tell your kids "no," thing may end badly.

Ain't got none.

 

[AirPo]

Ain't got none.

Obviously.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

That was then.

This is now.

Do you have a better answer to Sarah's post?

That end of the world account told in Revelation is not the be all and end all of the end of the world? (wow, lots of ends in that sentence)
And if it's a prophecy as many claim to it is, it doesn't mean that that is definitely what is going to happen. A prophecy is what may happen, not what must happen.

 

[AV1611VET]

A prophecy is what may happen, not what must happen.

A true prophecy is what is going to happen.

And they ain't nothing anyone can do to stop it.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

A true prophecy is what is going to happen.

And they ain't nothing anyone can do to stop it.

It's not really much of a prophecy when the end of the world has been prophesied to happen within every century and it doesn't happen.

 

[AV1611VET]

It's not really much of a prophecy when the end of the world has been prophesied to happen within every century and it doesn't happen.

The "end of the world" won't happen for at least another 1007 years.

If the Rapture occurs today, the Bible prophecies seven years of tribulation, followed by one thousand years of Christ reigning on the earth ... then the end of the world.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

The "end of the world" won't happen for at least another 1007 years.

If the Rapture occurs today, the Bible prophecies seven years of tribulation, followed by one thousand years of Christ reigning on the earth ... then the end of the world.

How can you know when the end of the world is, when the Bible states "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father." (Mark 13:32, KJB)?
And don't get pedantic by saying about the year.

 

[AV1611VET]

How can you know when the end of the world is, when the Bible states "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father." (Mark 13:32, KJB)?
And don't get pedantic by saying about the year.

First of all ... and I just thought of this ... aren't you the one that brushed me off the other day with something to the effect of, "Well, I don't believe the Bible anyway"?

If so, then why am I having this conversation?

If not, I'll continue:

Yes, Jesus said that.

But I don't know when the Rapture is, so I don't know the year.

That's why I worded my post like I did.

I said, "If the Rapture were to occur today."

In short, whatever year the Rapture occurs, just add 1007, and that is the year the world is going to end.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

First of all ... and I just thought of this ... aren't you the one that brushed me off the other day with something to the effect of, "Well, I don't believe the Bible anyway"?

If so, then why am I having this conversation?

If not, I'll continue:

Yes, Jesus said that.

But I don't know when the Rapture is, so I don't know the year.

That's why I worded my post like I did.

I said, "If the Rapture were to occur today."

In short, whatever year the Rapture occurs, just add 1007, and that is the year the world is going to end.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Oh, okay. I get what you mean now. You were referring to the Tribulation period, not the actual "breaking of the seven seals, Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, Rapture" end of the world.
My mistake.

 

[AV1611VET]

Oh, okay. I get what you mean now. You were referring to the Tribulation period, not the actual "breaking of the seven seals, Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, Rapture" end of the world.
My mistake.

-- Huh?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

-- Huh?

Isn't the Tribulation period where The Anti-Christ rules for... hang on. I'm getting myself mixed up.

 

[dad]

-_- shepherds do kill their sheep; they raise them until they are to be slaughtered. Even sheep for wool are killed for meat eventually.

In this world, yes. The final leader of this world will be a ruthless murderer of his own people.

Actually, doesn't revelation say that after a bit, the Earth is destroyed in a fiery, dramatic way? If I recall, it is some time of horror where the antichrist rules, something like 1000 years ruled by Jesus, and then the end, but I might be off in regards to numerical amounts, I didn't exactly memorize this stuff.

Not bad, kid. After God's folks are safe and out of the way, the rebellious lovers of evil will be removed clearing the way for a total rule by the Good guy and guys and gals.

As for the destroying the earth by fire, I do not fully understand whether that means burning off the crust and upper mantle, and making a new earth using the inner foundations again...or poofing it away and making a new one. I lean toward the former.

Honestly, given the number of potentially habitable planets in the universe, I question why a deity would bother to care specifically about this one.

It occurs to me that perhaps the other so called planets might be closer to the size of space ships than suns, since the size depends on knowing the distance. Unless time existed also as we know it in deep space (and this is an ongoing subject of debate here) then NO distances to stars are really known.

God is coming HERE to earth to live forever. No matter how bad global warming in this age gets or how much evil sinners wreck the world. He can fix it all in a New York minute.

 

[PsychoSarah]

In this world, yes. The final leader of this world will be a ruthless murderer of his own people.
Not bad, kid. After God's folks are safe and out of the way, the rebellious lovers of evil will be removed clearing the way for a total rule by the Good guy and guys and gals.

You know for a fact that atheists such as myself do not "love evil" just because we do not believe your ideal of a deity exists. Heck, what is considered evil is entirely subjective anyways. From my perspective, the deity you worship has committed atrocities so great as to be beyond human capabilities. Nobody, not me, you, heck even entire countries worth of people, are able to commit the crimes on the scale that the god of the bible has. He basically treats humanity like a SIMS game. In case you are unfamiliar, most people play those to see the variety of ways they can ruin or end the "lives" of fake people. Personally, it never occurred to me to do that with these games; it never crossed my mind that I could actively kill them, let alone considering doing so. The fact that god thought it an option to end humanity, and readily does so, is being pointlessly malicious. An omnipotent, omniscient being could fix the world without violating free will, and to say it can't, means it can't have at least one of those qualities.

Personally, I think the idea in the bible that "thinking of committing a crime is as bad as doing it", is just a means of making humanity look worse than it actually is. I actually appreciate the people that have the self control not to give in to their selfish desires a lot more than people with no selfish desires whatsoever.

As for the destroying the earth by fire, I do not fully understand whether that means burning off the crust and upper mantle, and making a new earth using the inner foundations again...or poofing it away and making a new one. I lean toward the former.

Based on the fact that earth is going to end when the sun expands and gets too close, the burning will be slow, as all the earth is eventually consumed when the sun finally dies via core collapse. From dust it came, and to dust it returns.

It occurs to me that perhaps the other so called planets might be closer to the size of space ships than suns, since the size depends on knowing the distance. Unless time existed also as we know it in deep space (and this is an ongoing subject of debate here) then NO distances to stars are really known.

I don't know of any sun sized planets, but we can determine their size the same way we determine that they are there to begin with: sun wobble. Orbiting planets have such a strong pull of gravity, that they make a star wiggle as they orbit it. The bigger the planet, the bigger the wobble. At least, that's the original way of finding planets, there are probably other methods. Regardless, earthlike planets not only exist; they are weirdly common. Sometimes, when looking at them, it gets creepy how much like earth they are http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Screen-Shot-2014-04-19-at-00.31.32-640x382.png https://www.rt.com/files/news/29/62/c0/00/gliese832c_vs_earth.jpg http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb...ages/6/65/Gliese_581_c_⁄_Earth_Comparison.png http://media.techeblog.com/images/exoplanet-like-earth.jpg and these are planets extremely similar to earth both in their orbit and size. It blows the mind to think what other combinations of star types and orbits could allow life to exist.

God is coming HERE to earth to live forever. No matter how bad global warming in this age gets or how much evil sinners wreck the world. He can fix it all in a New York minute.

But rather than fix it, god will destroy it all and make another. because apparently, that's how god rolls. Additionally, how would an omnipresent being live anywhere more than another place at any given time?

 

[dad]

You know for a fact that atheists such as myself do not "love evil" just because we do not believe your ideal of a deity exists

.

By the time Jesus returns and deals with the evil last king, yes, there will be no way to deny the spiritual, or God or angels. Those that fight Him will be doing so outright. That seems crazy....but that is about what we'll have. God in heaven will shake His head, and actually laugh.

Heck, what is considered evil is entirely subjective anyways. From my perspective, the deity you worship has committed atrocities so great as to be beyond human capabilities.

He is love actually. Not knowing Him, people misunderstand Scripture and what He does.

Nobody, not me, you, heck even entire countries worth of people, are able to commit the crimes on the scale that the god of the bible has. He basically treats humanity like a SIMS game. In case you are unfamiliar, most people play those to see the variety of ways they can ruin or end the "lives" of fake people. Personally, it never occurred to me to do that with these games; it never crossed my mind that I could actively kill them, let alone considering doing so. The fact that god thought it an option to end humanity, and readily does so, is being pointlessly malicious. An omnipotent, omniscient being could fix the world without violating free will, and to say it can't, means it can't have at least one of those qualities.

His plan of salvation was no game. He really has eternal life for us.

Personally, I think the idea in the bible that "thinking of committing a crime is as bad as doing it", is just a means of making humanity look worse than it actually is. I actually appreciate the people that have the self control not to give in to their selfish desires a lot more than people with no selfish desires whatsoever.

I think you are referring to the sermon on the mount. In that, if I recall, He starts out saying the KINGDOM OF GOD (or heaven in the future for us) is like that. In other words, after He works on us, on the other side, we will be so improved, that we would not even think lusting thoughts of another man's wife, for example! After all, when we are in heaven we likely could read minds! How would you like having tea with a friend and she was lusting after your man, and you saw and heard it just as much as if she had a loud speaker and shouted it out??

Based on the fact that earth is going to end when the sun expands and gets too close,

False. That is NO fact. The sun is like a little lap dog that obeys God and does what He wants for the sake of mankind! In the final days when evil runs wild, He ven turns it OFF..puts it OUT for awhile!!

the burning will be slow, as all the earth is eventually consumed when the sun finally dies via core collapse. From dust it came, and to dust it returns.

False prophesy.

I don't know of any sun sized planets, but we can determine their size the same way we determine that they are there to begin with: sun wobble. Orbiting planets have such a strong pull of gravity, that they make a star wiggle as they orbit it. The bigger the planet, the bigger the wobble.

Nope. That assumes that all wobbles are caused by earth style gravity. Do electrons wobble? We do not really know how far or big stars or therefore supposed planets that orbit them are!

At least, that's the original way of finding planets, there are probably other methods. Regardless, earthlike planets not only exist; they are weirdly common. Sometimes, when looking at them, it gets creepy how much like earth they are

Total invention and religious speculation based solely on a premise of believing that earth time and space and rules apply far far far away.

and these are planets extremely similar to earth both in their orbit and size. It blows the mind to think what other combinations of star types and orbits could allow life to exist.

Nah. It might be totally different than the way science envisions it. In fact the stars will go out. O.U.T. A new universe will be created. Why would there be 'planets' with life that suddenly get zapped??

But rather than fix it, god will destroy it all and make another. because apparently, that's how god rolls. Additionally, how would an omnipresent being live anywhere more than another place at any given time?

Well, Jesus is God. He appeared in places to people! He will set His real foot on the real mount of Olives!

 

[PsychoSarah]

.

By the time Jesus returns and deals with the evil last king, yes, there will be no way to deny the spiritual, or God or angels. Those that fight Him will be doing so outright. That seems crazy....but that is about what we'll have. God in heaven will shake His head, and actually laugh.

Laugh as lives are destroyed by the predetermined design? Doesn't sound like you should be joyful about this, to me. If I did believe in the god you idolize, I don't think I could bring myself to actually love it. But, as per rules, it would have to let me into heaven anyways. Because belief is all that matters to it, in the end.

Although, if all this crazy stuff did happen exactly as stated in the bible, I might believe as a result, but that is only because of the EVIDENCE finally supporting some of those claims. I do not deny the possibility of deities existing, I just find their existence to be unsubstantiated to the point I cannot believe that they exist.

He is love actually. Not knowing Him, people misunderstand Scripture and what He does.

Seems like no one knows god then, because everyone interprets scripture differently. Oh, but surely YOUR unique outlook must be true... that was sarcasm. The reality is, not only are you not more likely than any other believer that your interpretation of the bible is correct, but actually less likely, given that you make it out to conflict with observation even more than the average person would.

His plan of salvation was no game. He really has eternal life for us.
I think you are referring to the sermon on the mount. In that, if I recall, He starts out saying the KINGDOM OF GOD (or heaven in the future for us) is like that. In other words, after He works on us, on the other side, we will be so improved, that we would not even think lusting thoughts of another man's wife, for example! After all, when we are in heaven we likely could read minds! How would you like having tea with a friend and she was lusting after your man, and you saw and heard it just as much as if she had a loud speaker and shouted it out??
False. That is NO fact. The sun is like a little lap dog that obeys God and does what He wants for the sake of mankind! In the final days when evil runs wild, He ven turns it OFF..puts it OUT for awhile!!

Eternal life of... what? Most of the lore about heaven isn't in the bible. Going by the text, all you will be doing is worshipping... forever. The afterlife in the bible, while, from my perspective, still better than none at all, isn't particularly great.

Would you prefer, as Shakespeare put it, for life to be a play instead?

False prophesy.

I have no idea why you are so resistant to the idea that the Earth will end via the sun. The bible gives it a fiery end, and it would be perfectly valid to consider that a means to that end.

Nope. That assumes that all wobbles are caused by earth style gravity. Do electrons wobble? We do not really know how far or big stars or therefore supposed planets that orbit them are!

You act as if there is no means by which to gage how far stars are from us, which is incorrect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_distance_ladder you can doubt these methods all you like, but you cannot deny that the methods here exist, regardless as to whether or not you think that they work. Additionally, were gravity in normal matter not to work in a uniform way, the universe would reflect that. But then I must ask you, why would that even be the case in the first place? As for whether or not electrons wobble, that depends on what you consider to count as wobbling. They shift from different valence shells.

Total invention and religious speculation based solely on a premise of believing that earth time and space and rules apply far far far away.

What possible reason would I have that it doesn't work that way? Just because you can conceive of it, it doesn't make it true. During your entire posting record, you have consistently failed to provide actual, observable evidence that the physics of the universe are as wonky as they say. Your ideas are so contradictory to observation, that I would be more inclined to agree with AV's idea of things made in an old looking state for reasons he admits not to knowing, than to think physics on earth are unique and the rest of the universe is different for absolutely no reason.

Your claims are intellectually dishonest, and unless you have actual observation of your ideal of physics happening, your expectation that anyone should be swayed by your words, is foolish.

Nah. It might be totally different than the way science envisions it. In fact the stars will go out. O.U.T. A new universe will be created. Why would there be 'planets' with life that suddenly get zapped??

Stars do go out... just not all at once. Even if every star died on the same day, we wouldn't perceive it as such, given that they aren't all equidistant from earth. Even the sun's light takes about 8 minutes to get to us.

Well, Jesus is God. He appeared in places to people! He will set His real foot on the real mount of Olives!

Olives? That's news to me; I would say it was a waste of olives, but I am pretty sure people would gladly eat the olives Jesus steps on... or avoid doing so and just view this mountain of olives as a holy place until it rots away.

However, some of the "miracles" of Jesus are super easy to imitate. Criss Angel "walked on water", and even I could, with a little practice, "turn water into wine". Heck, I have seen a more impressive version where water was turned into confetti. Heal the sick via miracle, or an exaggeration of Jewish medical practices, which at the time, were some of the best used?

By your logic, since I can interpret these miracles as parlor tricks, I can claim all I want that they are, and never give a single reason like I did, and I will magically be right. This is because you don't make arguments, you just make claims, this is an example of what you do: the bible is wrong, because I can think of a way for it to be wrong. I don't need evidence, I can think it, thus you should agree with me. Just agree with me. Your evidence to the contrary is made invalid by i can say you are wrong, with imagination.

This is how you sound to me all the time, and I am tired of it. Find some evidence that isn't a personal interpretation of an ancient book, or hold your tongue... or typing fingers, I suppose. You are wasting your life attempting to convince people in this manner.

 

[dad]

Laugh as lives are destroyed by the predetermined design? Doesn't sound like you should be joyful about this, to me.

Laugh at those who rejected over and over, miracle working prophets, Christ, Scripture, and even angels preaching...and then proceed to actually try to fight the Almighty God at the battle of Armageddon.

Although, if all this crazy stuff did happen exactly as stated in the bible, I might believe as a result, but that is only because of the EVIDENCE finally supporting some of those claims.

I hope you do.

Seems like no one knows god then, because everyone interprets scripture differently. Oh, but surely YOUR unique outlook must be true... that was sarcasm. The reality is, not only are you not more likely than any other believer that your interpretation of the bible is correct, but actually less likely, given that you make it out to conflict with observation even more than the average person would.

Actually, bible believing Christians agree on every single thing that matters all the time. The trivial opinions on matters that we need not know yet have no real value.

Eternal life of... what? Most of the lore about heaven isn't in the bible

Yes. It sure is.

. Going by the text, all you will be doing is worshipping... forever.

That could mean something like loving Someone and being thankful.I don't buy into that bowing down all the time business at all.

Yes, some elders in Revelation did that at a certain time...

The afterlife in the bible, while, from my perspective, still better than none at all, isn't particularly great.

It is getting all we ever dreamed of and more, life and love and truth and learning and joy unspeakable and flying, and eating, and animals, and relatives that died long ago...etc etc etc.

Would you prefer, as Shakespeare put it, for life to be a play instead?

It is like that.

I have no idea why you are so resistant to the idea that the Earth will end via the sun. The bible gives it a fiery end, and it would be perfectly valid to consider that a means to that end.

No, the sun goes out in the last days of man, and man will live still. The stuff science preaches about the sun is baloney.

You act as if there is no means by which to gage how far stars are from us, which is incorrect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_distance_ladder you can doubt these methods all you like, but you cannot deny that the methods here exist, regardless as to whether or not you think that they work.

Yes I deny they are anything but religious drool. I know my enemy.

Additionally, were gravity in normal matter not to work in a uniform way, the universe would reflect that.

Not unless we knew what the created universe was really like. Man merely assigns earth area present state based reasons for things we see far away.

But then I must ask you, why would that even be the case in the first place? As for whether or not electrons wobble, that depends on what you consider to count as wobbling. They shift from different valence shells.

In other words man cannot tell what some little perturbation really is in deep space, unless we know some basics, like how big the thing revolving is...etc etc.

What possible reason would I have that it doesn't work that way? Just because you can conceive of it, it doesn't make it true. During your entire posting record, you have consistently failed to provide actual, observable evidence that the physics of the universe are as wonky as they say. Your ideas are so contradictory to observation, that I would be more inclined to agree with AV's idea of things made in an old looking state for reasons he admits not to knowing, than to think physics on earth are unique and the rest of the universe is different for absolutely no reason.

There is no physics of the universe! Physics is something that exists in time and space and near earth.

Your claims are intellectually dishonest, and unless you have actual observation of your ideal of physics happening, your expectation that anyone should be swayed by your words, is foolish.

I am honest enough to say man does not know.

Stars do go out... just not all at once. Even if every star died on the same day, we wouldn't perceive it as such, given that they aren't all equidistant from earth. Even the sun's light takes about 8 minutes to get to us. Forget how much time we are familiar with that it now takes light to move!

Olives? That's news to me; I would say it was a waste of olives, but I am pretty sure people would gladly eat the olives Jesus steps on... or avoid doing so and just view this mountain of olives as a holy place until it rots away.[/QUOTE] FYI there is a mountain near Jerusalem where |Jesus prayed often, and it is called the mount of Olives. He rose to heaven from there, and will return there.

However, some of the "miracles" of Jesus are super easy to imitate. Criss Angel "walked on water", and even I could, with a little practice, "turn water into wine". Heck, I have seen a more impressive version where water was turned into confetti. Heal the sick via miracle, or an exaggeration of Jewish medical practices, which at the time, were some of the best used?

We can stick Chris in the middle of the sea and watch what happens. Get serious.

This is how you sound to me all the time, and I am tired of it. Find some evidence that isn't a personal interpretation

The hundreds of prophesies through history involving real countries and temples and cities and peoples and etc have zero to do with interpreting.[/QUOTE]

 

[PsychoSarah]

Laugh at those who rejected over and over, miracle working prophets, Christ, Scripture, and even angels preaching...and then proceed to actually try to fight the Almighty God at the battle of Armageddon.

Yeah, why laugh at them? It's cruel, and dehumanizing. They are still people, with hopes and dreams, same as you, and even worse, you know that they are not only going to lose, but they are going to suffer forever for it. That isn't something to laugh about.

I hope you do.

I would rather manage to find faith before the end of the world. Most people say that by then, it will be too late.

Actually, bible believing Christians agree on every single thing that matters all the time. The trivial opinions on matters that we need not know yet have no real value.

Oh, so Calvinists believing that who will become a believer and who won't is predetermined isn't an issue for you? Jehovah's Witnesses thinking only 144 thousand people will ever go to heaven isn't a problem for you? Catholics believing that works and belief both are required to get into heaven is not contradictory to your beliefs? Because all of those are relevant to who does or does not end up in heaven.

Yes. It sure is.

No, it really isn't. All it says is good place, near god, and worship forever. Anything else about it isn't in there. Hell is pretty vague too, in the bible.

That could mean something like loving Someone and being thankful.I don't buy into that bowing down all the time business at all.

So how would you feel if literally all there was to do in heaven was worship nonstop forever? You couldn't possibly know what heaven is like until you die, so how do you honestly know you will willingly enjoy it, or even be yourself there?

Yes, some elders in Revelation did that at a certain time...

worship nonstop? Well, i imagine that they had to stop at some point, to go to the bathroom, if nothing else.

It is getting all we ever dreamed of and more, life and love and truth and learning and joy unspeakable and flying, and eating, and animals, and relatives that died long ago...etc etc etc.

Unless you are like me, and many of your relatives are not believers. I would never see my grandmother again, my sister would burn eternally; she's practically an antitheist. My ideal afterlife would not separate loved ones. Nor would it lack conflict, sorrow, anger, etc. I view negative emotions equally enriching as the positive ones.

It is like that.

In your opinion. My mother is of the belief that works matter more than faith. Depending on what portion of the bible you read, having 1 person in a family can be enough to save everyone in that family, or belief alone won't even save you.

No, the sun goes out in the last days of man, and man will live still. The stuff science preaches about the sun is baloney.

We have seen stars explode; even you have to admit that gives at least an intuitive reason behind how scientists view the death of the sun. True, not all stars go out with a bang, and our sun is borderline on the size for that. It may just collapse in on itself. Hard to say. Earth is doomed either way.

Yes I deny they are anything but religious drool. I know my enemy.

Why assume science is your enemy? Disagreement doesn't inherently make it so. Besides, you use science for other things, it is just a thought process for problem solving, you know.

Not unless we knew what the created universe was really like. Man merely assigns earth area present state based reasons for things we see far away.

This is highly incorrect. In fact, our solar system is somewhat odd compared to most of the ones we find. Much of our understanding of physics have changed through observing these other solar systems. It just so happens that the physics remain compatible with both observations, in the end. For example, it was once thought that large planets such as Jupiter had to have distant orbits to stars in order not to be pulled into them, but when we started to discover other planets, the first ones we found were massive and had close star orbits. The means by which they did not fall in, was an extremely fast elliptical movement.

In other words man cannot tell what some little perturbation really is in deep space, unless we know some basics, like how big the thing revolving is...etc etc.
There is no physics of the universe! Physics is something that exists in time and space and near earth.

Time and space exist everywhere as far as we can look, which is billions of lightyears. If they didn't, we would be able to see the edge where it stops.

I am honest enough to say man does not know.

Which is dishonest, the closest you can say to that without it being a lie, is that there is no way of knowing with 100% certainty how physics work. But, we can get into the high 90s, which is far greater than mere chance. You treat the physics understanding we have as completely baseless guesses, which they are not, and your claims as something more. The reality is, I can think of thousands of ways to imagine physics that don't make the bible impossible, so your one outlook is no better than those guesses without actual evidence to back it.

I don't fault you for being skeptical, I personally have concerns with certain theories on physics. But, you behave as if learning about the universe is impossible, which is ridiculous.

FYI there is a mountain near Jerusalem where |Jesus prayed often, and it is called the mount of Olives. He rose to heaven from there, and will return there.

Oh, hah, that's kinda funny then. My mistake of thinking you meant a literal mountain of olives XD

We can stick Chris in the middle of the sea and watch what happens. Get serious.

Jesus walked on water on his own terms too. Also, dude spells it Criss, I have no idea why.

The hundreds of prophesies through history involving real countries and temples and cities and peoples and etc have zero to do with interpreting.

I was talking about end times ones, specifically. Most of those other prophecies were written AFTER the events they describe already happened, and Jesus didn't even fit the prophecy for him to be the son of god perfectly. Nor is it by any means impossible for someone knowing that prophecy to try to fit it. Plus, plenty of them that were claimed to have happened have no historical basis to stand on.

 

[dad]

Yeah, why laugh at them? It's cruel, and dehumanizing. They are still people, with hopes and dreams, same as you, and even worse, you know that they are not only going to lose, but they are going to suffer forever for it. That isn't something to laugh about.

When folks know they are openly fighting against God, who created the universe by speaking it into being, that is bad.

I would rather manage to find faith before the end of the world. Most people say that by then, it will be too late.

If we want it, I think we'll get some.

Oh, so Calvinists believing that who will become a believer and who won't is predetermined isn't an issue for you?

Jesus said whosoever will...come. Whosoever comes to me I will in no wise cast out. There can be no pre destiny that makes that impossible so no worries about the Calvies.

Jehovah's Witnesses thinking only 144 thousand people will ever go to heaven isn't a problem for you?

Not at all. Those particular number are from tribes of Israel, so named exactly. JWs are not Jews so it sure has zilch to do with them. Besides there were multitudes too great to number of saved in the end after the rapture, the 144 thousand were just one tiny group of Jews of that number.

Catholics believing that works and belief both are required to get into heaven is not contradictory to your beliefs?

They do not get that from the bible so who really cares??

Because all of those are relevant to who does or does not end up in heaven.

None of that is actually in the least.

No, it really isn't. All it says is good place, near god, and worship forever. Anything else about it isn't in there. Hell is pretty vague too, in the bible.

My goodness, you have been misinformed. The bible tells us a lot about the world to come.

So how would you feel if literally all there was to do in heaven was worship nonstop forever?

That is ridiculous. Sounds like some demonic misconstrued slander and deception to keep heaven sounding like a terrible place for morons and zombies.

You couldn't possibly know what heaven is like until you die, so how do you honestly know you will willingly enjoy it, or even be yourself there?

Yes we can know a whole lot about it from Jesus and His word. Mansions, river, city of gold, eternal life, love, desires of our heart, flying, appearing and disappearing, walking through walls, mind reading...etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc.

Unless you are like me, and many of your relatives are not believers. I would never see my grandmother again, my sister would burn eternally; she's practically an antitheist. My ideal afterlife would not separate loved ones. Nor would it lack conflict, sorrow, anger, etc. I view negative emotions equally enriching as the positive ones.

That is an awful thought. You probably had tons of relatives in the family tree that were believers! Even maybe some that were saved, and you never knew about it.

In your opinion. My mother is of the belief that works matter more than faith. Depending on what portion of the bible you read, having 1 person in a family can be enough to save everyone in that family, or belief alone won't even save you.

Interesting thought, that a whole house could get saved because of someone...? Anyhow works do not save or keep anyone saved, that is absolutely certain and 100% undeniable scripture.

We have seen stars explode; even you have to admit that gives at least an intuitive reason behind how scientists view the death of the sun. True, not all stars go out with a bang, and our sun is borderline on the size for that. It may just collapse in on itself. Hard to say. Earth is doomed either way.

Nah...we have seen stars go real bright or disappear, but do not really know what is going on with them or how big they are or how far away and etc. Some signs in the sky could even be for mankind....including stars appearing, darkening or being bright...etc.

Why assume science is your enemy? Disagreement doesn't inherently make it so. Besides, you use science for other things, it is just a thought process for problem solving, you know.

There is science...dealing with actual fact and laws. Then there is so called science, that is a dark religion of unbelief in Jesus and creation, and has no merit or basis or value. Both are together in the education world and minds of most men.

This is highly incorrect. In fact, our solar system is somewhat odd compared to most of the ones we find. Much of our understanding of physics have changed through observing these other solar systems. It just so happens that the physics remain compatible with both observations, in the end. For example, it was once thought that large planets such as Jupiter had to have distant orbits to stars in order not to be pulled into them, but when we started to discover other planets, the first ones we found were massive and had close star orbits. The means by which they did not fall in, was an extremely fast elliptical movement.

Nah...you have no idea how big anything in the universe far away is, or what makes anything orbit...etc. The so called planets could be closer to the size of a molecule than to a sun for all we know. (for example, an apartment complex would be closer to the size of a molecule than to our sun)

Time and space exist everywhere as far as we can look, which is billions of lightyears. If they didn't, we would be able to see the edge where it stops.

You cannot prove that, this is just how man believes things are. Man cannot even so much as tell us what time IS!! Nor can he tell us what makes time and space mix together or exist the way we know it here...etc.

Which is dishonest, the closest you can say to that without it being a lie, is that there is no way of knowing with 100% certainty how physics work. But, we can get into the high 90s, which is far greater than mere chance. You treat the physics understanding we have as completely baseless guesses, which they are not, and your claims as something more. The reality is, I can think of thousands of ways to imagine physics that don't make the bible impossible, so your one outlook is no better than those guesses without actual evidence to back it.

You have exactly 0% chance of knowing what the future nature and laws will be like, or those in the far past if they were not the same! Same thing can apply to the far universe I would guess. We see it all here...now...and interpret inside this little fishbowl.

I don't fault you for being skeptical, I personally have concerns with certain theories on physics. But, you behave as if learning about the universe is impossible, which is ridiculous.

I can learn more from Scripture than science about the universe. They are nothing but bad religion. Blasphemous drivel. Baseless conjecture.

Oh, hah, that's kinda funny then. My mistake of thinking you meant a literal mountain of olives XD

Ha

Jesus walked on water on his own terms too. Also, dude spells it Criss, I have no idea why.

He had Peter walk out on the water too.

I was talking about end times ones, specifically. Most of those other prophecies were written AFTER the events they describe already happened, and Jesus didn't even fit the prophecy for him to be the son of god perfectly.

The prophesies of Jesus involve both the coming as a Lamb, and also later the coming as a lion, and ruling. His first coming was never meant to cover it all.

Nor is it by any means impossible for someone knowing that prophecy to try to fit it.

One could never fit it all, or even most of it. Try being virgin born sometime...

Plus, plenty of them that were claimed to have happened have no historical basis to stand on.

The witnesses recorded it all. History was not there to take a pic of the manger.