Is YAHWEH andALLAH the same person?

[Neochristian]

Really? Well then, if Baal was actually Yahweh, which is blasphemy by the way, then the scriptures wouldn't contain a reference to 8747 false gods that include Baal. Being Baal would be Yahweh the scriptures, God's breath, would not call Yahweh as Baal false. Baal, a Canaanite and Phoenician god of fertility and rainJudges 2:10-13 Baal, meaning “lord”, was pictured standing on a bull, a popular symbol of fertility and strength. Baal was associated with Asherah and Ashtoreth, goddesses of fertility.

Nor would God destroy those who worshiped him by that other name, Baal. Deuteronomy 4:3.

Nor would the worshipers of Baal-Peor have incurred the wrath of God for eating sacrifices of the dead as described in Psalm 106, if what they were doing was done in worship of Yahweh aka Baal-Peor.





No, it does not. It cannot.

There's a false teaching that's circulating about now with regard to allah being the same god as that of the Christians and Jews. Being that Arabs pre Islam used the arabic word allah to rightly identify god, that does not mean the god of the Koran is the same God as of the Bible.
This false teaching goes something like this. Allah, which is a generic term , Arabic for "god", which is true, is the same God as in Judaism and Christianity. The differences between the camps of faithful is the beliefs that follow the god.
It's almost like unto a joke at first but it stops being funny when one realizes such false teachers are very serious. And this is why it isn't funny.
All faith arrives from trust and belief in the doctrine one is exposed to and that resonates as truth for that individual.
In the time-line of faiths in this particular concern, Judaism came first, Christianity followed as the fulfillment of the law and the prophecies in Judaism as pertained to Messiah, and then came Islam.
Belief is arrived at through the reading of the scriptures, the teachings, that pertain to a particular religion.
When the Bible is said to be God breathed and is composed of scriptures from the Pentateuch and the New Testament, the new covenant that is born from the old, and the Koran contradicts what God breathed to life in the scriptures pertaining to Judaism and Christianity, then the god of the Koran cannot be the God of Judaism and Christianity.
Because the god of islam says in his 'breathed' text that he did not beget a son. The Koran that the muslims god dictated to a thief, a murderer, a pedophile, and a rapist, Muhammad, denies the crucifixion, denies the resurrection, denies Yeshua, called Isa in the Koran, was his son who redeemed the world from sin. The god of the Koran states that all human life originated not from Adam and Eve but from a blood clot.

This is why the absurd argument that false teachers promote, and they do have success when they are speaking to people who've never read the Torah, the Talmud, The Bible or the Koran, is so glaringly obviously a lie!
Because if the god of islam is that same god of the Jews and the Christians, he not only lied in 7 A.D. when dictating through Gabriel to that illiterate immoral merchant Muhammad, but he renounced everything he preordained to happen in matters of Hebrew prophecy and Christ fulfillment. And this means that no Christian is truly saved! Because the Koran, being that is the same god as breathed the Bible to life, denies everything Christians know Christ to be.

Yeah, I'm gonna have to agree that Ba'al and YHWH are not the same thing.

 

[Jahrooshshalom]

Dude, I shared an article with you last night about how the Pope embraced Islam. Embracing Islam is not equal to practicing Islam. Also, I have a Muslim friend who says that her faith claims that Jesus Christ is the only means of salvation and the removal of sin.

Then your friend is not muslim.

 

[Neochristian]

I am still waiting for the counter-argument against my 'weak' argument.

How about an alternative explanation instead: what Christ means when He says, "The Father and I are one," is that YHWH and He are one. That would account for the passage without making YHWH the trinity.

 

[Neochristian]

That depends who you talk to. The way i see it is Islam worships the same God as Christianity and as the Jews. Of course there are differences to how we understand and approach God.

Paul cites the "unknown God" to the Athenians as the true God and he offers to revel to them how this unknown God can be knowable. This isn't relativism making every worshipable thing as the true God just gone about the wrong way but it is keeping the redeemable values and instead of introducing something new Paul shows how God can be revealed with what they already know showing them God was always there.

With islam it is even closer. The God of islam is rooted in the God of Abraham and everyone knows this. They have the same source but they diverge. But just because they see things differently doesn't make the source different. God still stays the same even if he is worshiped differently and understood differently.

We have all heard of the elephant analogy where each man describes the elephant differently. But what about the man who can only describe the elephant from a distance and cannot experience the elephant with their senses. They never experience the elephant but know it is real. They may get a lot of the details wrong but this doesn't make the elephant they are describing as wrong it only makes the details wrong.

This doesn't make islam right but It also doesn't make God false. muslim's worship an unknowable God and because of that will never know redemption through islam but that God is the same God that we worship. we just worship him in spirit and in turth.

Dude! You are so close!

 

[Jahrooshshalom]

That depends who you talk to. The way i see it is Islam worships the same God as Christianity and as the Jews. Of course there are differences to how we understand and approach God. ...

And that is everything isn't it? When the message of salvation was given by God through his son Jesus Christ who is the only way to salvation and to come to the Father.
When a faith denies everything about Jesus, including his raising from the dead, that's not teaching the road to salvation as breathed by God himself is it?

622AD the Koran came to print and denied all that is Jesus message and in every single chapter laid out what is the god of 99 names dictates about the faith in himself. Now, if that thing is the same god as a Christian worships, and that a Jew worships, then that thing is whacked insane!

Because in the beginning he created the heavens and the earth. Then he breathed his sacred and holy word to life as the text to which the Jews subscribe. And in that text promised a messiah would come to save the world from its sins. In the new testament, that which God breathed so as to have his word and will become what we call Christianity today, God fulfilled his promise of that messiah as he incarnated into Jesus the Christ. A man who said, the only way to the father is through him.

Islam denies all of that! Islam teaches that Jesus, whom they call Isa, was a slave of their god of 99 names. Islam denies that Jesus raised from the dead, saved the world through his sacrifice so that sin is no longer an issue, and denies that its god of 99 names begat a son.
Ergo, if its the same god as that of Christians and Jews then while Jesus was saving the world insane god was inspiring a murderer, a thief, a rapist, a pedophile,who was also an illiterate merchant, to teach the exact opposite of what that god in the flesh of Jesus was telling people in the same region that muhammad inhabited.

Islam is a Christian heresy.

 

[Sophrosyne]

How about an alternative explanation instead: what Christ means when He says, "The Father and I are one," is that YHWH and He are one. That would account for the passage without making YHWH the trinity.

I don't want to nitpick but according to the rules you aren't allowed to post in this forum area as your faith choice isn't considered "Christian"
http://www.christianforums.com/thre...-posting-in-this-forum.7878007/#post-67461197
You may wish to change it to "Christian seeker" or something in the list of Christian choices in the list that is if you agree with nicene creed statement for those in the nicene list if that is your choice.

 

[SolomonVII]

How about an alternative explanation instead: what Christ means when He says, "The Father and I are one," is that YHWH and He are one. That would account for the passage without making YHWH the trinity.

http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/jesus-christ-is-yahweh
This does not deal with the argument, or even offer an alternative explanation to it, since the argument that had been put forth is nto based on the Biblical verses of "the Father and I are one".

The Biblical argument put forth is that Jesus, the Son, is Yahweh.
This would correspond with much of modern Biblical scholarship too, with verses associated with the name Yahweh being rather than Elohim being associated with a much more human form of God.
The article simply did not state that the Trinity was Yahweh. The article contends on the biblical evidence that Jesus is Yahweh. That is, the second person of the Trinity is yahweh.

 

[RDKirk]

We have all heard of the elephant analogy where each man describes the elephant differently. But what about the man who can only describe the elephant from a distance and cannot experience the elephant with their senses. They never experience the elephant but know it is real. They may get a lot of the details wrong but this doesn't make the elephant they are describing as wrong it only makes the details wrong..

None of the blind men has his specific detail wrong. Each detail is accurate, albeit not a complete comprehension. The man who does not experience the elephant at all does not know whether the elephant really exists at all, and if his details do not correspond with any detail of any of the blind men who actually touched the elephant, then that man with no experience is simply wrong.

The Islam comprehension of God is not merely incomplete, it's specifically wrong. The description of Allah in Islam is not the description of the God worshipped by Christians, any more than the "King George III" is the same person as "King George VII," despite the fact that both are known by the title "King George."

 

[Yeshuas_My_Freedom]

Don't listen to anyone who confuses the Islamic community with the Arabic community. Such confusions are disgusting.

Who here is doing that?

 

[Berean777]

That depends who you talk to. The way i see it is Islam worships the same God as Christianity and as the Jews. Of course there are differences to how we understand and approach God.

Paul cites the "unknown God" to the Athenians as the true God and he offers to revel to them how this unknown God can be knowable. This isn't relativism making every worshipable thing as the true God just gone about the wrong way but it is keeping the redeemable values and instead of introducing something new Paul shows how God can be revealed with what they already know showing them God was always there.

With islam it is even closer. The God of islam is rooted in the God of Abraham and everyone knows this. They have the same source but they diverge. But just because they see things differently doesn't make the source different. God still stays the same even if he is worshiped differently and understood differently.

We have all heard of the elephant analogy where each man describes the elephant differently. But what about the man who can only describe the elephant from a distance and cannot experience the elephant with their senses. They never experience the elephant but know it is real. They may get a lot of the details wrong but this doesn't make the elephant they are describing as wrong it only makes the details wrong.

This doesn't make islam right but It also doesn't make God false. muslim's worship an unknowable God and because of that will never know redemption through islam but that God is the same God that we worship. we just worship him in spirit and in turth.

Paul cites a statute that was marked with the title unknown god.

Your interpretation of scripture is obscured and I appeal to you to consider what Paul truly meant to convey to the Greeks.

You see Paul was telling the Greeks that every false god under the kitchen sink you have identified and worshipped amongst the pantheon of Greek gods, however the God that you do not know and have not worshipped is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel that I am introducing to you.

You see the Greeks in order to cover all basis, they endeavoured even to plaquate a statue with the title the unknown god, that to them was not worshipped, but in case he existed that he would not be offended by their lake of knowledge of him. So they were obviously covering all their basis.

Having said that, even though they plaquated a statue with the title the unknown god they never knew him nor did they ever worship an entity that they knew not. For the learnered Greeks it would be absurd to worship an unknown god. Basically this was a disclaimer clause or act on their part to cover their bums.

Paul uses this disclaimer of the Greeks in a satirical manner in which his intentions was to ridicule the shortcomings and antics of the Greeks . So, something that is satirical often looks like the real thing in order to make fun of it. In this circumstance it was just that!

Paul's intentions were never to give credit to the Greeks by implying that they worshipped the true God of the Bible.

 

[Berean777]

None of the blind men has his specific detail wrong. Each detail is accurate, albeit not a complete comprehension. The man who does not experience the elephant at all does not know whether the elephant really exists at all, and if his details do not correspond with any detail of any of the blind men who actually touched the elephant, then that man with no experience is simply wrong.

The Islam comprehension of God is not merely incomplete, it's specifically wrong. The description of Allah in Islam is not the description of the God worshipped by Christians, any more than the "King George III" is the same person as "King George VII," despite the fact that both are known by the title "King George."

For the political interfaith one world universal religious enterprise to prosper, then the LIE they push must also prosper.

At the end of the day this political agenda amongst the religious heads is to abolish the cross at calvary slowly slowly, until they brain wash the future generations. When the old generations pass away the new generations are the new recipients to the one world universal religion of peace and safety in the absence of the offensive cross. Believe it or not they will one day condemn the cross in the same way the Nazi swats sticker is condemned today. The cross will be labelled the symbol of evil. This is why the muslims say when Jesus comes he will break the cross and kill the pigs (true Christians).

I have warned the flock and if people do not heed my warning and continue to be part of this deception, by pushing this LIE, then they will give an answer to God to why they helped and abetted the enemies of Christ.

This is also a warning from brother Paul

2 Thessalonians 2:10-12
10and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

 

[Aelred of Rievaulx]

The problem is that monotheism in the OT is actually quite a developing process. The textual data makes it quite obvious that the early Israelites were polytheistic and that two deities in the OT (El Elyon and Yahweh) are in the process of being conflated. This isn't altogether neat and tidy, some stories like the Flood narrative are rather very messy.

Anyway, I wouldn't identify Allah with Yahweh, I would identify Allah with El Elyon.

 

[Berean777]

The problem is that monotheism in the OT is actually quite a developing process. The textual data makes it quite obvious that the early Israelites were polytheistic and that two deities in the OT (El Elyon and Yahweh) are in the process of being conflated. This isn't altogether neat and tidy, some stories like the Flood narrative are rather very messy.

Anyway, I wouldn't identify Allah with Yahweh, I would identify Allah with El Elyon.

Totally false.

The Old Testament prophets conveyed two persons like Yahweh sending fire down from Yahweh.

We as new testament witnesses now understand that these two persons are Father and the Living Word together and if you look at the Living Word who is also called Yahweh, the prophets of Old describe him as the Angel of Yahweh's presence.

Isaiah 63:9-12
In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old.

10But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.

11Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where ishe that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?

12That led them by the right hand of Moses with his glorious arm, dividing the water before them, to make himself an everlasting name?

The langugae thta Isaiah uses is of the Father and the preeminent Son who in this case is the Living Word before his incarnation as Jesus of Nazareth.

Old testament scripture reveals the trinity of the one infinite God Yahweh and not a pantheon of gods as you have mistakenly suggested.

 

[Berean777]

He who made himself an everlasting name as mentioned in Isaiah 63:12 is our risen Lord and saviour.

 

[Aelred of Rievaulx]

Old testament scripture reveals the trinity of the one infinite God Yahweh and not a pantheon of gods as you have mistakenly suggested.

That's the particular trajectory which happened with emergence of Christianity, and not just Christianity but the entire binitarian/two-powers-in-heaven Jewish theological movement (Philo of Alexandria). It took hold of the binaries extant in the text (Yahweh and El Elyon) as well as the monotheistic tendency of the text and moved within the binitarian model. So Jesus became understood as Yahweh/the Angel of the Lord, etc.

 

[Berean777]

That's the particular trajectory which happened with emergence of Christianity, and not just Christianity but the entire binitarian/two-powers-in-heaven Jewish theological movement (Philo of Alexandria). It took hold of the binaries extant in the text (Yahweh and El Elyon) as well as the monotheistic tendency of the text and moved within the binitarian model. So Jesus became understood as Yahweh/the Angel of the Lord, etc.

And the Spirit of truth revealed this to his church, so that there would be no mistake of the one and true God that we worship as Christians today.

 

[Aelred of Rievaulx]

And the Spirit of truth revealed this to his church, so that there would be no mistake of the one and true God that we worship as Christians today.

I guess one could see it that way. I'm just describing the process in terms of the history of religions.

 

[Berean777]

The Holy Ghost came to dwell in his spiritual temple after the foundation cornerstone had been laid.

Joel tells of the Spirit of truth coming to reveal to the believers who God is. God may have somehow been a mystery to the old testament peoples but after Pentecost the prophesies were fullfilled and the church as you stated emerged with the truth revealed.

Hebrews 8:11
No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, 'Know the Lord,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest.

Jeremiah 31:34
No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, 'Know the LORD,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest," declares the LORD. "For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more."

 

[Berean777]

I guess one could see it that way. I'm just describing the process in terms of the history of religions.

That is how it happened friend, otherwise the Old Testament prophets would have been either decieved or decievers.

 

[Aelred of Rievaulx]

That is how it happened friend, otherwise the Old Testament prophets would have been either decieved or decievers.

It was one trajectory. Other trajectories were the emergence of Rabbinic Judaism and Islam. The text holds many possibilities.