Vegan

[Ilovegod888]

We both kill animals to survive.

http://topvideosclip.com/watch/?vid=Kf2zPgD8v3M
Not exactly....

 

[Brookelowe454]

The fact is that plowing and harvesting a field kills animals and damages the environment. They can say that they believe in protecting animals and the environment all they like, but their actions run counter to what they say they believe.

http://theveganscholar.blogspot.com/2015/04/do-vegans-kill-more-animals-than-meat.html

"On the other hand, meat production as we know it will always result in death. At present, there is no way to get animal meat without slaughtering an animal. To expand on this point, meat production as well know it will also always result in a larger amount of plant and water consumption (since the animals must be sustained for a certain period of time before they can be slaughtered).

So, to answer my opening question: No. Vegans don't kill more animals than meat-eaters, but I suppose most of you knew that already."

 

[Soyeong]

http://topvideosclip.com/watch/?vid=Kf2zPgD8v3M
Not exactly....

After talking to the farmers he concluded at 3:38 that "it sound like on occasion farming gear will kill animals". If you don't think you are more important than those animals, then don't support farming crops.

 

[Ilovegod888]

Hardly is still some, so I finally got you to admit that veganism still kills some animals. When it comes down to your life against theirs, they lose. So deep down, you truly believe that your life is more important than theirs, or else you wouldn't continue to eat a vegan diet. If you don't care about being consistent, then there isn't anything I can say to change your mind, but at least I can open your eyes to this hypocrisy.

I was talking about health, not morality.

 

[Ilovegod888]

After talking to the farmers he concluded at 3:38 that "it sound like on occasion farming gear will kill animals". If you don't think you are more important than those animals, then don't support farming crops.

Like I said, I NEED plants to survive. You eat plants and tortured animals. The animals I kill (by accident) lived a happy life. Your meat is tortured and have short lives. Save yourself and the animals. Did you see the picture? YOU create World Hunger and I value others lives. I still am sorry about the deaths, you on the other hand, aren't. You know how they are tortured but you continue to deny it. Meat is totally moral. (sarcasm). I didn't want to force you to watch this but....I'm sure your Torah would be against the harming of these animals you consume and kill.

 

[Soyeong]

http://theveganscholar.blogspot.com/2015/04/do-vegans-kill-more-animals-than-meat.html

"On the other hand, meat production as we know it will always result in death. At present, there is no way to get animal meat without slaughtering an animal. To expand on this point, meat production as well know it will also always result in a larger amount of plant and water consumption (since the animals must be sustained for a certain period of time before they can be slaughtered).

So, to answer my opening question: No. Vegans don't kill more animals than meat-eaters, but I suppose most of you knew that already."

If you count the number of mice that are poisoned at grain storage facilities and die horrible deaths, then vegans do kill more more, but again, we can debate about who kills more, but the important thing is that vegans do kill some, which is inconsistent with what they say they believe.

 

[Brookelowe454]

If you count the number of mice that are poisoned at grain storage facilities and die horrible deaths, then vegans do kill more more, but again, we can debate about who kills more, but the important thing is that vegans do kill some, which is inconsistent with what they say they believe.

Did you not read anything that I just provided for you? Vegans do NOT kill more. In fact, you kill DOUBLE because you eat plants AND animals. Your argument is inconsistent.

 

[Soyeong]

Like I said, I NEED plants to survive. You eat plants and tortured animals. The animals I kill (by accident) lived a happy life. Your meat is tortured and have short lives. Save yourself and the animals. Did you see the picture? YOU create World Hunger and I value others lives. I still am sorry about the deaths, you on the other hand, aren't. You know how they are tortured but you continue to deny it. Meat is totally moral. (sarcasm). I didn't want to force you to watch this but....I'm sure your Torah would be against the harming of these animals you consume and kill.

So when it comes down to your survival against theirs, they lose, so you consider your life to be more important than theirs, which is inconsistent.

 

[Brookelowe454]

So when it comes down to your survival against theirs, they lose, so you consider your life to be more important than theirs, which is inconsistent.

You on the other hand, don't care at all. So stop acting like "oh you do it too" which in your mind somehow makes it right. Just please shut up and leave if you aren't here to be serious. Also, you might as well eat meat 7 days out of the week, and forget your dumb moral values, because you, my friend, are a giant hypocrite.

 

[Soyeong]

Yes or no...Do some animals die when plowing and harvesting crops?
Yes or no...Is your survival more important than their survival?
If your survival is more important, then how can you say that you are equal with other animals?
If your survival is not more important, then why do you pay farmers to kill those animals?

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

If you count the number of mice that are poisoned at grain storage facilities and die horrible deaths, then vegans do kill more more, but again, we can debate about who kills more, but the important thing is that vegans do kill some, which is inconsistent with what they say they believe.

How do you figure? Vegans don't claim to never kill animals, anymore than Christians claim to never sin. We all need to eat to survive, vegans simply avoid the unnecessary killing. We strive to minimize harm. Yes, vegans eat grain , but far less than meat eaters who eat not only grain, but also all the grain that was processed through the beef they eat.

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

Yes or no...Do some animals die when plowing and harvesting crops?
Yes or no...Is your survival more important than their survival?
If your survival is more important, then how can you say that you are equal with other animals?
If your survival is not more important, then why do you pay farmers to kill those animals?

My survival is more important than other animals and other humans. That's why I would fight a person trying to murder me. But animal products are not necessary for my survival, so I don't intentionally consume them. I don't think you understand veganism very well.

 

[Soyeong]

You on the other hand, don't care at all. So stop acting like "oh you do it too" which in your mind somehow makes it right. Just please shut up and leave if you aren't here to be serious. Also, you might as well eat meat 7 days out of the week, and forget your dumb moral values, because you, my friend, are a giant hypocrite.

I didn't say it was right because you do it too. I've already stated my reasons for why I think it is right. You're the one who thinks it's wrong to kill other animals, yet you also support practices that kill other animals, so you're the one who is being inconsistent with what you say you believe, not me. It makes no sense to call me a giant hypocrite if you can't even point out what I'm being hypocritical about.

 

[Brookelowe454]

Yes or no...Do some animals die when plowing and harvesting crops?
Yes or no...Is your survival more important than their survival?
If your survival is more important, then how can you say that you are equal with other animals?
If your survival is not more important, then why do you pay farmers to kill those animals?

Yes or no... Do you kill animals by eating their flesh?
Yes or no... Do you think that two wrongs make a right?
If you think that you can justify killing beings by pointing out mice, which YOU KILL too, you're ignorant.
If you think you can somehow get away with hurting them for your benefit, and claim that I'm doing it too, you're wrong. Don't try to turn it back around on me when you do the same thing, just 100 times worse. Everyone kills beings in this world, but the difference is, I try to stop it. I try to make a difference. Don't tell me that my lifestyle is not making a difference, because facts would suggest otherwise. My point is, I am trying to help the planet and the animals, while you argue "oh you do it too" just so you can somehow feel better about yourself. I've had enough of you "Soyeong" is this how you argue with people? Killing innocent beings and making excuses to somehow make me look bad too? Wow, you really are something "Soyeong."

 

[Brookelowe454]

I didn't say it was right because you do it too. I've already stated my reasons for why I think it is right. You're the one who thinks it's wrong to kill other animals, yet you also support practices that kill other animals, so you're the one who is being inconsistent with what you say you believe, not me. It makes no sense to call me a giant hypocrite if you can't even point out what I'm being hypocritical about.

Okay, you've made your point, and I've made mine. I don't see why you feel the need to keep responding then? Everyone in this world "supports practices that kill other animals" but the difference is, I do it on accident, while you do it on purpose. I try to help, while you try to destroy. You are a hypocrite because you say you're against torturing animals, yet you eat them.

 

[Soyeong]

How do you figure? Vegans don't claim to never kill animals, anymore than Christians claim to never sin. We all need to eat to survive, vegans simply avoid the unnecessary killing. We strive to minimize harm. Yes, vegans eat grain , but far less than meat eaters who eat not only grain, but also all the grain that was processed through the beef they eat.

The point I've been trying to get them to admit over the last few pages is that vegans kill animals too. It's also been claimed previously that we aren't more important than animals, yet pay farmers to kill them runs shows that they don't really believe that. It's not something they repent of. If they wanted to avoid unnecessary killing, then they wouldn't eat a vegan diet because eating a vegan diet isn't necessary.

 

[Ilovegod888]

So when it comes down to your survival against theirs, they lose, so you consider your life to be more important than theirs, which is inconsistent.

I'm not going to respond until you watch it...are you blind? Read the post, you have the reasoning of a 5 year old.

 

[Soyeong]

Yes or no... Do you kill animals by eating their flesh?
Yes or no... Do you think that two wrongs make a right?
If you think that you can justify killing beings by pointing out mice, which YOU KILL too, you're ignorant.
If you think you can somehow get away with hurting them for your benefit, and claim that I'm doing it too, you're wrong. Don't try to turn it back around on me when you do the same thing, just 100 times worse. Everyone kills beings in this world, but the difference is, I try to stop it. I try to make a difference. Don't tell me that my lifestyle is not making a difference, because facts would suggest otherwise. My point is, I am trying to help the planet and the animals, while you argue "oh you do it too" just so you can somehow feel better about yourself. I've had enough of you "Soyeong" is this how you argue with people? Killing innocent beings and making excuses to somehow make me look bad too? Wow, you really are something "Soyeong."

Animals tend to be dead before I eat their flesh, so no, but eating them does require them to be killed. Two wrong do not make a right and I have never suggested that they do or that I am justified in eating meat because you kill mice. I agree that I kill mice too, we both kill mice, but that is a problem with your belief, not mine. If you truly tried to stop it and didn't think you were more important than animals, then you wouldn't eat a vegan diet. By supporting practices that damage the environment and kill animals, you aren't helping them. I never said that the fact that you aren't helping excuses me.

 

[Soyeong]

I'm not going to respond until you watch it...are you blind? Read the post, you have the reasoning of a 5 year old.

Which one are you referring to?

 

[Soyeong]

Okay, you've made your point, and I've made mine. I don't see why you feel the need to keep responding then? Everyone in this world "supports practices that kill other animals" but the difference is, I do it on accident, while you do it on purpose. I try to help, while you try to destroy. You are a hypocrite because you say you're against torturing animals, yet you eat them.

You do it on purpose because you can always stop eating a vegan diet. You claim to try to help, but you support damaging the environment and killing animals, which does not help. I am against torturing animals, but eating them is not torturing them, they can be killed painlessly.